Do looks make a big difference for us?

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Fireblossom
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31 Dec 2017, 10:04 am

fluffysaurus wrote:
spaceone wrote:
I almost feel like being physically attractive plays against me.. women approach me a fair amount but I'm socially awkward so it makes me really uncomfortable.. bad with eye contact with people I don't know, the whole deal. And so what could've made for a really fun night out turns into I spend the night now trying to avoid this person because I don't want to feel like I'm imposing this now present awkward situation on them. Every partner I've ever had approached me because of my hobby and my fascination over it and that's how we bonded but lots of gnarly sh*t that happened to me in the last year or so killed my confidence for that too. A culture I used to feel really comfortable and welcome in now gives me extreme anxiety because I feel like I'm known as that weird guy. I wish I could be invisible so I could just enjoy the art and music in peace without having to deal with the sexually charged, pressuring social environment.


Being the weird guy here will make you invisible because we're all weird :D


I'm pretty sure that in every group of weirdoes there is the weirdo who is weirdest of them all and will stand out. :D

But he's probably not the weirdo on this site.



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31 Dec 2017, 10:13 am

My weirdo theory:
Every group has a weirdo. If you're part of a group and you can't spot the weirdo, likelihood is that you're the weirdo.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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31 Dec 2017, 12:25 pm

honeymiel wrote:
Jayo wrote:

Or for female Aspies - what if one of them looked like Jennifer Aniston or Jennifer Lawrence? Would NT guys still proceed with dating and commitment etc., and not just "bang and dump"?

Now that would be an interesting pop psychology experiment for the Malcolm Gladwells out there. As would a study to determine if Aspie guys with Brad-like looks were able to get female success not because of looks alone, but they were able to improve their social / emotional interactions by virtue of having that foundation of confidence, they believed that they had more of a chance and were less demoralized by their circumstance. They'd be the "Outliers".


So I am an attractive Aspie. I'm tall, slim, well-proportioned and pretty, good skin/hair/teeth (and genetics). When I was in my teens and early 20s, I was approached by a few modelling scouts but when I tried to pursue that, I wasn't able to photograph well (awkwardness and stuck inside my head) and my social anxiety held me back.

I did however make friends easily because people wouldn't mind the fact that I was shy and reserved, they just liked having a "hot girl" around to add to their own popularity. Also I think there's a bit of an advantageous stereotype about quirky, shy and/or reserved girls who are smart and really attractive. Like in the Taylor Swift music video for "You Belong With Me" ...lol, or The Princess Diaries or whatever movie that is, where the nerdy girl with glasses gets made over and stuns people.

Because of this, I learned a lot more social skills and basic life skills - other girls would do my makeup and hair and teach me how to dress, or where to look for ideas on how to be more attractive and sociable. People would invite me to parties and gatherings just because I was attractive and different. Though I did often get teased playfully for my quirks, it did give me a lot more confidence in myself, not just thinking "I'm a failure" but just like "I'm a bit different but a cool kind of different" - and it wasn't until my mid 20s that a string of social failures made it too difficult to ignore that my "differences" were also hinderances.

So I think I am definitely an outlier in some regards - I can charm/entertain people, I have good manners and hygiene from a strict upbringing, and I know how to dress well and do makeup. I play on these things now as an adult in order to pass as NT. But people who get to know me do see me for who I am, and the autistic traits I have do play a marked role in my life

In terms of men, I had to learn how to pick the ones that were more decent from the ones who were just playing me around and trying to get in my pants. This took a lot of failure and I didn't really have my first relationship until I was 21 (though I'd been trying since I was 14). So long as you pick a decent guy, there are plenty who will proceed with dating and commitment because of the unique traits that an Aspie can bring to the table. But the world is also full of short-sighted or narrow-minded people, or people who either intentionally or unintentionally stigmatise differences. Then again, some people embrace and seek out "different" because sometimes different is successful and refreshing.

These days I am pretty good at screening people early on to get an idea of their views and ethics. I'm also pretty good at getting men to fall for me once I find one that I want to pursue something with...I think by virtue of being honest and relatively innocent, having a strong moral code and excessive empathy/sensitivity, for some men it triggers their protective instincts? And those things for me are also Aspie traits that can get me into trouble or see me being manipulated by the wrong people.

Last part of my ramble, it helps that I am intelligent and have actively sought to improve my understanding of others. I'll never be NT, but I do read psychology articles regularly and research neuroscience and various mental disorders in my spare time. I think it helps me to understand and identify certain things about how others work and what they may be thinking/feeling. My communication skills could use some improvement, but overall I manage to compensate for my Aspie traits (though it is really hard work at times)



Pics or it’s not true.

<—PM. *wink*



NorthWind
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31 Dec 2017, 12:26 pm

Aristophanes wrote:
Not to mention that your view of their attractiveness is psychologically tied to their interest in you (meaning if they are talking to you, then you're naturally going to see them as more attractive).

True. I'm not sure for how many of them this was the case, though. I know that I perceived one guy as perfect looking who wasn't by more 'objective' standards, but I was aware of that. With the others I believe the difference in my subjective perception and their real looks was at least a lot smaller. Two of the guys were quite shy though. They were definitely good looking, and rather than me overestimating their physical attractiveness, I'd guess they may have been underestimating it.

Aristophanes wrote:
Add in that 'attractiveness' varies by culture, and even in a culture varies by the individual, and even the individual isn't sure how attractive someone is without input from outside sources, and the entire experiment of trying to judge someone's attractiveness is as solid as buying a lotto ticket and expecting to win the jackpot.

As how attractive a person is perceived may vary by culture, but as long as I stay where I am, it's not that relevant for my personal life how attractive someone would be in a different culture - so, when I use that word I usually assume that everyone knows I'm talking within the context of the culture I live in and not some other.
Different individuals also would rate the attractiveness of one and the same person differently, of course. Yet, there are some people that most would say are attractive and others most would say are not.

Of course it gets more complicated when other things than physical appearance are taken into account.



honeymiel
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31 Dec 2017, 6:31 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
honeymiel wrote:
Jayo wrote:

Or for female Aspies - what if one of them looked like Jennifer Aniston or Jennifer Lawrence? Would NT guys still proceed with dating and commitment etc., and not just "bang and dump"?

Now that would be an interesting pop psychology experiment for the Malcolm Gladwells out there. As would a study to determine if Aspie guys with Brad-like looks were able to get female success not because of looks alone, but they were able to improve their social / emotional interactions by virtue of having that foundation of confidence, they believed that they had more of a chance and were less demoralized by their circumstance. They'd be the "Outliers".


So I am an attractive Aspie. I'm tall, slim, well-proportioned and pretty, good skin/hair/teeth (and genetics). When I was in my teens and early 20s, I was approached by a few modelling scouts but when I tried to pursue that, I wasn't able to photograph well (awkwardness and stuck inside my head) and my social anxiety held me back.

I did however make friends easily because people wouldn't mind the fact that I was shy and reserved, they just liked having a "hot girl" around to add to their own popularity. Also I think there's a bit of an advantageous stereotype about quirky, shy and/or reserved girls who are smart and really attractive. Like in the Taylor Swift music video for "You Belong With Me" ...lol, or The Princess Diaries or whatever movie that is, where the nerdy girl with glasses gets made over and stuns people.

Because of this, I learned a lot more social skills and basic life skills - other girls would do my makeup and hair and teach me how to dress, or where to look for ideas on how to be more attractive and sociable. People would invite me to parties and gatherings just because I was attractive and different. Though I did often get teased playfully for my quirks, it did give me a lot more confidence in myself, not just thinking "I'm a failure" but just like "I'm a bit different but a cool kind of different" - and it wasn't until my mid 20s that a string of social failures made it too difficult to ignore that my "differences" were also hinderances.

So I think I am definitely an outlier in some regards - I can charm/entertain people, I have good manners and hygiene from a strict upbringing, and I know how to dress well and do makeup. I play on these things now as an adult in order to pass as NT. But people who get to know me do see me for who I am, and the autistic traits I have do play a marked role in my life

In terms of men, I had to learn how to pick the ones that were more decent from the ones who were just playing me around and trying to get in my pants. This took a lot of failure and I didn't really have my first relationship until I was 21 (though I'd been trying since I was 14). So long as you pick a decent guy, there are plenty who will proceed with dating and commitment because of the unique traits that an Aspie can bring to the table. But the world is also full of short-sighted or narrow-minded people, or people who either intentionally or unintentionally stigmatise differences. Then again, some people embrace and seek out "different" because sometimes different is successful and refreshing.

These days I am pretty good at screening people early on to get an idea of their views and ethics. I'm also pretty good at getting men to fall for me once I find one that I want to pursue something with...I think by virtue of being honest and relatively innocent, having a strong moral code and excessive empathy/sensitivity, for some men it triggers their protective instincts? And those things for me are also Aspie traits that can get me into trouble or see me being manipulated by the wrong people.

Last part of my ramble, it helps that I am intelligent and have actively sought to improve my understanding of others. I'll never be NT, but I do read psychology articles regularly and research neuroscience and various mental disorders in my spare time. I think it helps me to understand and identify certain things about how others work and what they may be thinking/feeling. My communication skills could use some improvement, but overall I manage to compensate for my Aspie traits (though it is really hard work at times)



Pics or it’s not true.

<—PM. *wink*


Haha, I wouldn't do that because some people can get a bit mean and find reasons to cut you down or pick at flaws

I was out with my Aspie friend tonight who has a tendency to do this, and on our way to a NYE party he goes "Your face is not that bad" and I'm like ???? "Are you saying my face is good or my face is not bad?" and he's like "Your face is really good"... He does try to cut me down to size, and sometimes points out flaws and says like "Some people might not like this/that about you"

But then on our way home: "This guy's staring at you. That guys staring at you. Why are they staring at you? It's making me angry"
I'm like "Yeah, I know. I can see it out of the corner of my eye"
"How does it make you feel getting stared at all the time?"
I'm like, ohhhh nope. I'm not talking about this. I've made that mistake once already today :oops:



kii
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01 Jan 2018, 8:49 am

honeymiel wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
honeymiel wrote:
Jayo wrote:

Or for female Aspies - what if one of them looked like Jennifer Aniston or Jennifer Lawrence? Would NT guys still proceed with dating and commitment etc., and not just "bang and dump"?

Now that would be an interesting pop psychology experiment for the Malcolm Gladwells out there. As would a study to determine if Aspie guys with Brad-like looks were able to get female success not because of looks alone, but they were able to improve their social / emotional interactions by virtue of having that foundation of confidence, they believed that they had more of a chance and were less demoralized by their circumstance. They'd be the "Outliers".


So I am an attractive Aspie. I'm tall, slim, well-proportioned and pretty, good skin/hair/teeth (and genetics). When I was in my teens and early 20s, I was approached by a few modelling scouts but when I tried to pursue that, I wasn't able to photograph well (awkwardness and stuck inside my head) and my social anxiety held me back.

I did however make friends easily because people wouldn't mind the fact that I was shy and reserved, they just liked having a "hot girl" around to add to their own popularity. Also I think there's a bit of an advantageous stereotype about quirky, shy and/or reserved girls who are smart and really attractive. Like in the Taylor Swift music video for "You Belong With Me" ...lol, or The Princess Diaries or whatever movie that is, where the nerdy girl with glasses gets made over and stuns people.

Because of this, I learned a lot more social skills and basic life skills - other girls would do my makeup and hair and teach me how to dress, or where to look for ideas on how to be more attractive and sociable. People would invite me to parties and gatherings just because I was attractive and different. Though I did often get teased playfully for my quirks, it did give me a lot more confidence in myself, not just thinking "I'm a failure" but just like "I'm a bit different but a cool kind of different" - and it wasn't until my mid 20s that a string of social failures made it too difficult to ignore that my "differences" were also hinderances.

So I think I am definitely an outlier in some regards - I can charm/entertain people, I have good manners and hygiene from a strict upbringing, and I know how to dress well and do makeup. I play on these things now as an adult in order to pass as NT. But people who get to know me do see me for who I am, and the autistic traits I have do play a marked role in my life

In terms of men, I had to learn how to pick the ones that were more decent from the ones who were just playing me around and trying to get in my pants. This took a lot of failure and I didn't really have my first relationship until I was 21 (though I'd been trying since I was 14). So long as you pick a decent guy, there are plenty who will proceed with dating and commitment because of the unique traits that an Aspie can bring to the table. But the world is also full of short-sighted or narrow-minded people, or people who either intentionally or unintentionally stigmatise differences. Then again, some people embrace and seek out "different" because sometimes different is successful and refreshing.

These days I am pretty good at screening people early on to get an idea of their views and ethics. I'm also pretty good at getting men to fall for me once I find one that I want to pursue something with...I think by virtue of being honest and relatively innocent, having a strong moral code and excessive empathy/sensitivity, for some men it triggers their protective instincts? And those things for me are also Aspie traits that can get me into trouble or see me being manipulated by the wrong people.

Last part of my ramble, it helps that I am intelligent and have actively sought to improve my understanding of others. I'll never be NT, but I do read psychology articles regularly and research neuroscience and various mental disorders in my spare time. I think it helps me to understand and identify certain things about how others work and what they may be thinking/feeling. My communication skills could use some improvement, but overall I manage to compensate for my Aspie traits (though it is really hard work at times)



Pics or it’s not true.

<—PM. *wink*


Haha, I wouldn't do that because some people can get a bit mean and find reasons to cut you down or pick at flaws

I was out with my Aspie friend tonight who has a tendency to do this, and on our way to a NYE party he goes "Your face is not that bad" and I'm like ???? "Are you saying my face is good or my face is not bad?" and he's like "Your face is really good"... He does try to cut me down to size, and sometimes points out flaws and says like "Some people might not like this/that about you"

But then on our way home: "This guy's staring at you. That guys staring at you. Why are they staring at you? It's making me angry"
I'm like "Yeah, I know. I can see it out of the corner of my eye"
"How does it make you feel getting stared at all the time?"
I'm like, ohhhh nope. I'm not talking about this. I've made that mistake once already today :oops:


I did laugh reading your conversation, sounds like you have an amusing friendship. (:


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02 Jan 2018, 5:22 am

It does. I have an acquaintance - we'll call him Mike. My relatives came to me with who they thought would be a match made in Heaven for me. He was drop dead gorgeous. He was honest and said he was seeing someone. I thought he was just blowing me off but found out it was true. I got a little mad at my relatives but I guess they meant well. Mike married a rich, beautiful woman called Elaine. After about 5 years of marriage and two kids later, she begged me to take him from her. She offered me money and properties in the Caribbean. She said that her marriage was as if she was caring for a pet and that she met a beautiful man and wanted to be married to him instead. She felt that he and her children would be safe with me. Both of her children had severe autism. Unfortunately, for Elaine, I had married someone else during that time and was very happy to where NO AMOUNT of cash would pull me from my own catch. EVERYBODY wanted Mike until after they got to know him. Women would have sex with him on the first date and would claw each others eyes out over him. To me, he was incredibly handsome but simply a polite dingleberry. He drifted from bed to bed and had no real sense of self. Today, he lives with another rich yet very old woman who cares for him as if he were her son - the type of son you can sleep with too. When she goes, he inherits it all. Looks do matter. Everytime I go shopping, I'll run into a couple where the woman is very old and the younger, handsome man is a financially dependent aspie - it's like a trend. I listen to their conversations and think, there's another one!!



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03 Jan 2018, 2:05 pm

BTDT wrote:
My wife pointed out that I was more attractive that I valued myself. She wished she could have been more attractive to match me. Its not just guys that are attracted to an hourglass shape.

I think that being able to know and ignore unwritten social rules is an Aspie trait. And it is related to our difficulties in socializing. Weirdly enough, Apies often have trouble ignoring written rules that NTs have no trouble ignoring. My driving has gotten a lot better since I've made these realizations. 8O


Yeah, ain't that the way!! Caused me no end of chagrin in corporate office settings, when the "informal network" governed the "real" rules of interaction and whatnot. But I gradually came to understand its nuances, albeit not 100%, but passable. The corollary to this is that oftentimes we refer to ASPD (pathological personalities) as being the opposite, where *only* unspoken, social-Darwinian rules prevail (i.e. you're a victim, it's your fault, you're naive, it's your fault, forget about any formal recourse...etc...) 8O

As for the driving example - yeah I was lucky there, back in the early 90s, I had a very conscientious driving instructor in drivers ed (at age 18), who told the class that "licensed drivers tend to do such-and-such, which I don't suggest you do for the first month or two, but after that..." yeah. Certainly helped mitigate any ambiguity I might have had, and not look like some automaton weirdo to potential friends or a date.

Basically, if a reliable source verbalizes what an unwritten rule is in a given context, then I retain and practice it fairly well. We get stymied on two fronts, when it's not verbalized, and when an untrusted source tries to trick us for their perverse amusement. :(



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03 Jan 2018, 2:11 pm

honeymiel wrote:
Ichinin wrote:
I was a member of a dating site and was rated as a 7 (some lower, some higher), which is way higher than i thought of myself.


Interestingly, I think being Aspie can actually delude/prevent some people from realising how others see them in terms of physical attractiveness. I've actually met two Aspie guys who think they're much less attractive than they are (although my opinion on that may be skewed, as I tend to develop attraction based on emotional bonding rather than physical features)


Good point, honeymiel.
Luckily, I had trusted sources, close friends and some girlfriends, who told me that I was a great-looking guy. Now that I'm in my 40s with a wife and two daughters and more grey hairs...I'm more "distinguished". Just hoping I'll continue on a Harrison Ford-like trajectory LOL
I found your posting very inspirational, you sound like a very fulfilled human being. :D



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26 Jan 2018, 5:22 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
NorthWind wrote:
I can mostly tell which of my physical features are positive or negative, but not how important they are. It also doesn't help that men are usually not interested in me, but the few who were or may have been have mostly been average or good-looking themselves.

Not to mention that your view of their attractiveness is psychologically tied to their interest in you (meaning if they are talking to you, then you're naturally going to see them as more attractive). Add in that 'attractiveness' varies by culture, and even in a culture varies by the individual, and even the individual isn't sure how attractive someone is without input from outside sources, and the entire experiment of trying to judge someone's attractiveness is as solid as buying a lotto ticket and expecting to win the jackpot.


Not true, while there may be some cultural variances, there’s an innate instinct in perceiving what’s attractive and what’s not.

For example obesity is seen as unattractive in almost all cultures of the world; it doesn’t matter if there’s a remote primitive tribe that finds it attractive - fact is most of the world finds obesity unattractive, same when it comes to height of men.


And yet in medieval Europe obesity was the ultimate sign of attractiveness among most nations...so much for some remote primitive tribe. Also Mona Lisa was considered very attractive for her time, today not so much. This argument also fails to take into account that throughout most of evolutionary history animals haven't taken physical attractiveness into account, they've mated predominately by locality followed by ease of access. The problem with elimination in an argument isn't that it doesn't take the whole picture into account, it's that many times one eliminates so much they don't even know what the picture they're arguing even looks like since they've framed it so small they've cut out 90% of the painting itself.



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27 Jan 2018, 4:06 am

Aristophanes wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
NorthWind wrote:
I can mostly tell which of my physical features are positive or negative, but not how important they are. It also doesn't help that men are usually not interested in me, but the few who were or may have been have mostly been average or good-looking themselves.

Not to mention that your view of their attractiveness is psychologically tied to their interest in you (meaning if they are talking to you, then you're naturally going to see them as more attractive). Add in that 'attractiveness' varies by culture, and even in a culture varies by the individual, and even the individual isn't sure how attractive someone is without input from outside sources, and the entire experiment of trying to judge someone's attractiveness is as solid as buying a lotto ticket and expecting to win the jackpot.


Not true, while there may be some cultural variances, there’s an innate instinct in perceiving what’s attractive and what’s not.

For example obesity is seen as unattractive in almost all cultures of the world; it doesn’t matter if there’s a remote primitive tribe that finds it attractive - fact is most of the world finds obesity unattractive, same when it comes to height of men.


And yet in medieval Europe obesity was the ultimate sign of attractiveness among most nations...so much for some remote primitive tribe. Also Mona Lisa was considered very attractive for her time, today not so much. This argument also fails to take into account that throughout most of evolutionary history animals haven't taken physical attractiveness into account, they've mated predominately by locality followed by ease of access. The problem with elimination in an argument isn't that it doesn't take the whole picture into account, it's that many times one eliminates so much they don't even know what the picture they're arguing even looks like since they've framed it so small they've cut out 90% of the painting itself.



All your post is wrong, all of it.

it’s a myth that obese women were the ideal beauty in the past covilizations, just check the statues of beauty goddesses in ancient Greece, Rome, and Middle East.

This post explains best this myth:

https://www.reddit.com/r/fatlogic/comme ... ttractive/



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27 Jan 2018, 7:19 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
NorthWind wrote:
I can mostly tell which of my physical features are positive or negative, but not how important they are. It also doesn't help that men are usually not interested in me, but the few who were or may have been have mostly been average or good-looking themselves.

Not to mention that your view of their attractiveness is psychologically tied to their interest in you (meaning if they are talking to you, then you're naturally going to see them as more attractive). Add in that 'attractiveness' varies by culture, and even in a culture varies by the individual, and even the individual isn't sure how attractive someone is without input from outside sources, and the entire experiment of trying to judge someone's attractiveness is as solid as buying a lotto ticket and expecting to win the jackpot.


Not true, while there may be some cultural variances, there’s an innate instinct in perceiving what’s attractive and what’s not.

For example obesity is seen as unattractive in almost all cultures of the world; it doesn’t matter if there’s a remote primitive tribe that finds it attractive - fact is most of the world finds obesity unattractive, same when it comes to height of men.


And yet in medieval Europe obesity was the ultimate sign of attractiveness among most nations...so much for some remote primitive tribe. Also Mona Lisa was considered very attractive for her time, today not so much. This argument also fails to take into account that throughout most of evolutionary history animals haven't taken physical attractiveness into account, they've mated predominately by locality followed by ease of access. The problem with elimination in an argument isn't that it doesn't take the whole picture into account, it's that many times one eliminates so much they don't even know what the picture they're arguing even looks like since they've framed it so small they've cut out 90% of the painting itself.



All your post is wrong, all of it.

it’s a myth that obese women were the ideal beauty in the past covilizations, just check the statues of beauty goddesses in ancient Greece, Rome, and Middle East.

This post explains best this myth:

https://www.reddit.com/r/fatlogic/comme ... ttractive/


Sorry, I'll trust my voluminous knowledge of ancient history over some upset high schooler on Reddit. However, if you want to educate yourself I recommend the following two college level texts that deal exclusively with ancient sexuality:

The Constraints of Desire: The Anthropology of Sex and Gender in Ancient Greece

Love, Sex, and Tragedy: How the Ancient World Shapes Our Lives.



The_Face_of_Boo
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27 Jan 2018, 8:32 am

^ the reddit guy’s argument was strong because he provided visual evidences, why do you want to be blind by believing a fake history(faked by an agenda) and bury your head in sand instead?

Check all paints and arts from ancient Greece, all women depicted were NOT obese.

ALL women in ancient Egyptian arts were NOT obese.

Women in ancient Chinese paints were NOT obese.

Most women in Medieval paints were NOT obese.

These arts and statues are real reflections of these ancient civilizations.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 27 Jan 2018, 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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27 Jan 2018, 8:43 am

Believing that beauty is somehow socially constructed, is pretty damn ridiculous.



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27 Jan 2018, 8:56 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^ the reddit guy’s argument was strong because he provided visual evidences, why do you want to be blind by believing a fake history(faked by an agenda) and bury your head in sand instead?

Check all paints and arts from ancient green, all women despicted were NOT obese.

ALL women in anicent Egypt arts were NOT obese.

Women in ancient Chinese paints were NOT obese.

Most women in Medieval paints were NOT obese.

These arts and statues are real reflections of these ancient civilizations.

Both books include pictures as well since that's your standard. :roll:
And you're creating a strawman since I never argued those representations didn't exist. They certainly do, but you can't deny there were fat women depicted in art either, well you could, but you'd have to deny every fertility goddess and claim Peter Paul Rubens never existed. 2nd, the ancients rarely depicted women outside of fertility gods, most representations were actually male, it's ~5 to 1 in ancient Greece. Also of note, your 'sexuality is purely biology' argument completely glosses over those cultural aesthetics and changes in them over time. Example: look at the few ancient Greek statues left and notice the male's penis is actually very small. That's because aesthetically the Greeks viewed a small penis as preferential to a large one. They also have larger shoulders/chest and smaller quad muscles than normal if we're looking at proportions, they also had rounder faces than the pronounced jawlines of today. Those were what were aesthetically pleasing to the Greeks, that's sexually what they wanted in males, and it has nothing to do with biology but their culture. As for bias of the two works I presented you, sure there's bias because there's bias in everything, but those two works have a hell of lot less bias than you're going to find on a reddit post with no peer review, editing, and to be honest logic.



The_Face_of_Boo
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27 Jan 2018, 9:37 am

Aristophanes wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^ the reddit guy’s argument was strong because he provided visual evidences, why do you want to be blind by believing a fake history(faked by an agenda) and bury your head in sand instead?

Check all paints and arts from ancient green, all women despicted were NOT obese.

ALL women in anicent Egypt arts were NOT obese.

Women in ancient Chinese paints were NOT obese.

Most women in Medieval paints were NOT obese.

These arts and statues are real reflections of these ancient civilizations.

Both books include pictures as well since that's your standard. :roll:
And you're creating a strawman since I never argued those representations didn't exist. They certainly do, but you can't deny there were fat women depicted in art either, well you could, but you'd have to deny every fertility goddess and claim Peter Paul Rubens never existed. 2nd, the ancients rarely depicted women outside of fertility gods, most representations were actually male, it's ~5 to 1 in ancient Greece. Also of note, your 'sexuality is purely biology' argument completely glosses over those cultural aesthetics and changes in them over time. Example: look at the few ancient Greek statues left and notice the male's penis is actually very small. That's because aesthetically the Greeks viewed a small penis as preferential to a large one. They also have larger shoulders/chest and smaller quad muscles than normal if we're looking at proportions, they also had rounder faces than the pronounced jawlines of today. Those were what were aesthetically pleasing to the Greeks, that's sexually what they wanted in males, and it has nothing to do with biology but their culture. As for bias of the two works I presented you, sure there's bias because there's bias in everything, but those two works have a hell of lot less bias than you're going to find on a reddit post with no peer review, editing, and to be honest logic.



Again, you’re too baised on many levels.

First of all, penises of ancient Greek statuses are not “very small” medically wise, they are of natural sizes, they are “small” because they are in flaccid state!! *facepalm”.
They are of normal size for Mediterranean population (who tend to have “grower” penises, meaning small as flaccid but about 3x bigger as erected) - 80% of males worldwide are growers.

Flaccid penises tend to be much smaller than their erected state, and those statues were not about sex.

And the shape of their faces don’t look that different than greek guys today. Of course they would look different to you. Hello? They were Greeks, not Americans.

But obviously your brain is too used to porn where males are always depicted as fully erected and big 100% of the time. Nude art is not porn.

Secondly, take a look at Priapus, the ancient Greek god of fertility, and at Satyr, a greek mythological species known for high sex drive. Check their statues and tell me if you think they have small penises.

Not every thing written in a some book must be true, which may be written by some biased author who may influenced by a certain agenda (ie. feminist agenda)- do some critical thinking yourself beyond books based on tangible evidences.