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funeralxempire
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29 Dec 2017, 3:23 pm

Marknis wrote:
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Only when you're literally obsessed with Jesus this and Jesus that like an inbreed welfare-grabbing hick, then yes. I find it disgusting. People who have "faith" are mental and also have sex with their own relatives because they're excessively rural. What's the point in looking all superstitious and dumb in front of the whole World when you conquered the Moon? You're much better than that, America. Get finally rid of the old conservative Christians who would rather defend Israel than their own country because Jerusalem is more important to them than Washingotn DC. You should simply deport these people instead of the Mexicans, think about it.

Don't "tolerate" weird unecessary cults that obviously keep you down. What if humanity had never listened to Galileo?


Ironically, most of the people who support the religious right are the most anti-Middle Eastern people around. Yet where is Israel located as well as the birthplace of Christianity? The Middle East! :roll:


Adding to the irony, they're outraged when Muslims are persecuting Middle Eastern Christians but actively support Israel persecuting Palestinian Christians.

They'll use FGM as an excuse to slander Muslims and Islam, while ignoring that the parts of the world where it's common it's practiced by Christians and Muslims (and animists/followers of indigenous religion as well typically). In fact they'll often insist in Christian majority countries that the rate is so high because of Muslims doing it and outright refuse to accept the notion that the Christians practice it, no matter how well documented the practice is among Christians in the area. If that doesn't work pivot to 'No True Scotsman' and keep spinning.


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29 Dec 2017, 4:48 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
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Americans are no stupider, or even less informed, than other Westerners. It's just that America has a larger population, as well as very insular bubbles where stupidity is the norm. That means that you get more stupid, confident Americans than you do for other populations.

If you take a probability-based approach to the definition of "Western" (what is the probability that individual X would be considered Western by a random person they met?) then I'd guess that about half of all Westerners live in America, which means that about half of all stupid Westerners live in America. That means if you encounter a stupid person on the internet, about half the time they're going to be American.

Furthermore, Americans are often ignorant about basic facts about the rest of the world. This makes them seem stupid to foreigners. But while the average American is bad on European capitals, they can quite often name all 50 state capitals. The average European could probably name two or three at best. To be fair, we should compare Americans' knowledge of Europe with Europeans' knowledge of America.


That's stupid: equating European national capitals to American state capitals. Even we Americans consider the state capitals to be trivia, but Americans are taught European national capitals in middle school. And newspaper headlines are written with the assumption that readers know certain national capitals (London and Moscow exchange harsh words today).

The equivalent ignorance would be for Europeans to not know things like (a) the US had a civil war, or (b) other more basic basics of US geography than state capitals.

Pop culture had me believe that state capitals were elementary school knowledge in the US - shows like the Simpsons often depict the children knowing them, while shows with adults in them will have someone casually stating that Topeka is the capital of Kansas.

(Speaking of which, the only time a state capital has actually intruded on my life is when a bouncer wouldn't let my friend into a pub because her ID said she was born in Kansas, and when he asked her for the capital she said Topeka rather than Kansas City, which he insisted was correct)

So maybe a fairer comparison would be naming states vs naming European countries? It's obviously not the same thing because there are more states and they're less important than countries, but I wonder whether Rhode Island is more famous than Andorra.



naturalplastic
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29 Dec 2017, 5:47 pm

I dunno. Maybe its just me, but knowing that Kansas is part of the wheat belt and NOT part of the corn belt nor the cotton belt is more important than knowing the capital. And it pisses me off when characters in movies think that "they grow corn in Kansas" (no. they grow wheat, not corn).

Yes. That is a better comparison. European nations and American states are comparable units.And comparable in how well known they are. And they even have a similar range in size. France is about the size of Texas, the UK is about the size of Oregan, and (on the other extreme) Luxembourg is about equal to Rhode Island.

Our 8th grade geography teacher did do a day going over all of the insanely tiny European countries smaller than that:Andorra, Vatican City, Monaco, Lichtenstien, San Marino, etc. So we Americans do learn about those too, even if we don't remember much about them.

That bouncer is a moron, because most Americans know that Kansas City is split between Missouri and Kansas. So it cant be the capital of either state. The capital would more likely be in the middle of a state than be a city that straddles the border with another state. So I would venture that most Americans would know that "the capital of Kansas has to be someplace other than Kansas City". And after all- the Capital of New York is NOT NYC, but Albany. Most Americans know that too.

I guess I am proving you right- that state capitals are kinda important. Lol!

If they got into a war Rhode Island could squash Andorra under its pinky, but Rhode Island would be about evenly matched (GNP,population, physical size) to Luxembourg. Friends of my parents were on an airliner returning from Europe approaching NYC when the French accented stewardess announced that they were "flying over the Island of Rhodes" momentarily scaring our friends into thinking that they were on the wrong plane, and were over the Aegean between Greece and Turkey. So I guess Europeans are a bit confused about the name of our smallest state.



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29 Dec 2017, 6:03 pm

Not those I met; they seem particularly smart, easygoing, and thoughtful. But I am only thinking of my family from US and teachers who taught in Middle East who were American.


From the media and online comments they seem bigoted, vitriolic, and fond of arguing, but that could go for most online comments without taking nationality into consideration. And the media will usually show the mad people.
I really despise the stories of black ppl being shot for their colour, police brutality, etc. That’s about all I can surmise from the media.


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29 Dec 2017, 9:02 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
That bouncer is a moron, because most Americans know that Kansas City is split between Missouri and Kansas. the Capital of New York is NOT NYC, but Albany. Most Americans know that too.


I'm almost certain that most USians don't know either of those things; I didn't know the first one. That stuff may have been taught well back in the day, but I went to school in the late 80s through the 90s and we didn't learn much about capitals or other states. What we did learn, I'm sure most people have forgotten, particularly because most people don't travel to many different states. Plus the US has a huge population of people who never even finished high school and successive generations care less about education than previous generations.



naturalplastic
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29 Dec 2017, 10:46 pm

Dang!

I thought everyone knew that you had to specify "Kansas City Kansas", or "Kansas City Missouri".

And I thought that everyone knew the irony that though Washington DC is the political capital of the nation, NYC is its economic capital, but that NYC is not even the political capital of New York state.

But I could be crediting folks with more knowledge than they really have.



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30 Dec 2017, 2:20 am

I'm pretty sure residents of the US prefer the term "Americans", but whatever. I'm a Canadian and I used to have tremendous respect for the US. Then an orange walrus who doesn't believe in science got put in the Oval Office, and a bunch of people on the political right, who seemed to be more numerous than the political left (which I later found out isn't necessarily true), started perpetuating all of that idiot's tripe, and it's like rational thought went out of style in the US overnight. So, my opinion of the US took a nosedive.

Well...for a time. I actually did some research because nothing the political right said or did sounded remotely intelligent or sympathetic, so I had to find out why that viewpoint had any degree of popularity. It seems that I had actually fallen into the same trap as some critics of the political left, and there are plenty of misconceptions about the right that I was actually led to believe while condemning those who believe equally untrue things about the left. Like, sure I'm certain there are people on both ends of the political spectrum who fit certain stereotypes, but most people on the left don't believe in communism and I wasn't giving the right enough credit.

In all fairness though, the right does have this tendency to preach to the choir and push away anyone who might consider supporting their side by pretending to fit the stereotypes. No, those on the right aren't racist/sexist jerks, but many pretend to be for reasons unknown. The actual truth is that people on the right aren't opposed to people of alternate demographics taking up positions in various industries for example. They're just opposed to there being a certain quota of individuals in other demographics being encouraged to take up such positions while the same isn't true of white guys. Oh, and they would support having a female president, so long as she's actually who they think is the right person for the job, and not just so that can be checked off of some checklist. When you put it that way, the right-wing perspective sounds quite reasonable. So, I can't fathom why people on the right don't just say that instead of pretending to be jerks.

As for the stupid part, in response to this thread, I've heard the right spew some really dumb opinions regarding climate change, which by the way has significant scientific backing. I facepalm every time I hear people say "so much for global warming" when they look out and see the effects of a cold winter. Suffice to say, when I heard nonsense like that people on the right not only don't believe in climate change, but that they think it's all "fake news" spewed by some leftist political agenda that just made me assume people on the right are idiots. Some might be, but after doing some digging I found out what I now believe is the truth. Many people on the right do believe in climate change, but don't necessarily believe that leftist tactics such as carbon taxes are the solution. Again, that sounds very reasonable and intelligent. Why people on the right don't just come out and say that's their position is beyond me. Instead they're content with people assuming they're idiots who don't believe in science.

So, in summary, I actually think the right, who make up a good portion of the American population, is pretty reasonable in their views and being on the right no longer makes me assume one is unintelligent. Well, actually I only ever assumed that about the American right, but I think I was wrong. In all fairness it's because people on the right wanted me to assume that, but I'm on to you.



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30 Dec 2017, 2:56 pm

Tross wrote:
So, in summary, I actually think the right, who make up a good portion of the American population, is pretty reasonable in their views and being on the right no longer makes me assume one is unintelligent. Well, actually I only ever assumed that about the American right, but I think I was wrong. In all fairness it's because people on the right wanted me to assume that, but I'm on to you.

I don't know why you made the question into a right vs. left issue. That's not what I was asking at all.

Honestly it seems like you held a bunch of stereotypes before and you still do now, except the ones you hold now are a bit more favorable. "The right" is not some monolithic group of people who all believe the same things and support the same policies for the same reasons. Some of them are racists and sexists; probability alone virtually guarantees that.



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30 Dec 2017, 8:27 pm

starkid wrote:
Tross wrote:
So, in summary, I actually think the right, who make up a good portion of the American population, is pretty reasonable in their views and being on the right no longer makes me assume one is unintelligent. Well, actually I only ever assumed that about the American right, but I think I was wrong. In all fairness it's because people on the right wanted me to assume that, but I'm on to you.

I don't know why you made the question into a right vs. left issue. That's not what I was asking at all.

Honestly it seems like you held a bunch of stereotypes before and you still do now, except the ones you hold now are a bit more favorable. "The right" is not some monolithic group of people who all believe the same things and support the same policies for the same reasons. Some of them are racists and sexists; probability alone virtually guarantees that.
Well, you asked a question and I had to talk about a significant population who had tainted my view of the US. You’re right that some people on the right probably are jerks/morons, but I prefer to think most people on either the left or right are reasonable people, and my research reflects that, though anyone is welcome to do their own.

I’ve actually only recently picked a side of the political spectrum, and have not until recently held much of an opinion of either side, until people on one side started flooding the internet with what I’ll politely refer to as nonsense. I’m thankful I was proven wrong as I was afraid rational thought went out of style in the US just because the president doesn’t believe in it (or free speech for that matter). For the record, Canadian politics aren’t bogged down with this identity BS. It’s really more of a matter of whether we prefer to have cheapos or over-spenders in charge of our country, provinces or cities.



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01 Jan 2018, 11:04 am

naturalplastic wrote:
France is about the size of Texas,

Only if you include non-European territory. Meteropolitan France sits squarely between Texas and California. French people probably wouldn't make the distinction but I think it's important here. Otherwise we'll be left claiming that Denmark is much bigger than Alaska.

Quote:
Our 8th grade geography teacher did do a day going over all of the insanely tiny European countries smaller than that:Andorra, Vatican City, Monaco, Lichtenstien, San Marino, etc. So we Americans do learn about those too, even if we don't remember much about them.

Heh, don't think I was ever taught about San Marino or Lichtenstein in school. There isn't much emphasis on rote learning in our geography lessons, instead we learn about concepts.
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That bouncer is a moron, because most Americans know that Kansas City is split between Missouri and Kansas.

The bouncer was not American.



Kiriae
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01 Jan 2018, 11:48 am

Uneducated - perhaps.
But I don't know much about US country and culture either so it doesn't mean much.
Just because someone doesn't know where Poland is located exactly in Europe doesn't mean they lack education. It's comparable to not knowing where Washington State is exactly located in USA. Lack of interest more than education.

However I met a particular idiot from US once. He claimed he is from US and English is his native language but he answered my question: "Did you buy it or find it somewhere?"(question about an item in online game) with a "Yes" and I couldn't get him to answer me properly.



funeralxempire
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01 Jan 2018, 3:28 pm

Kiriae wrote:
However I met a particular idiot from US once. He claimed he is from US and English is his native language but he answered my question: "Did you buy it or find it somewhere?"(question about an item in online game) with a "Yes" and I couldn't get him to answer me properly.


Technically that's a perfectly valid response.

Did you x or y?
Yes. (Yes means that I did either x or y.)

While most people understand that you mean 'exclusive or' and not 'or', electronics geeks and programming geeks have a tendency to sometimes respond with an answer that is strictly correct and not the contextually correct answer.


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lostonearth35
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01 Jan 2018, 5:27 pm

It's only due to my fear of getting banned from WP (again) that I can't really answer this question. I think most people who've read my posts know the answer already, anyway.



Kiriae
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01 Jan 2018, 5:34 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Kiriae wrote:
However I met a particular idiot from US once. He claimed he is from US and English is his native language but he answered my question: "Did you buy it or find it somewhere?"(question about an item in online game) with a "Yes" and I couldn't get him to answer me properly.


Technically that's a perfectly valid response.

Did you x or y?
Yes. (Yes means that I did either x or y.)

While most people understand that you mean 'exclusive or' and not 'or', electronics geeks and programming geeks have a tendency to sometimes respond with an answer that is strictly correct and not the contextually correct answer.

Yeah. But he still wouldn't answer properly when I made it clear I want to know which one it was because I wanted to know either how much it was or where it dropped.



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01 Jan 2018, 6:24 pm

"USians" is a brand new term with me; and I'm not sure I like it. I don't even mind being called a "Yankee."

We are Americans. We're from "The States."

I understand that "America" can refer to the entire North American continent--but no Canadian would enjoy being called an American. American is reserved for us Yanks.

Non-Americans are shocked at my decent knowledge of other countries.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 01 Jan 2018, 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

funeralxempire
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01 Jan 2018, 6:26 pm

Kiriae wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Kiriae wrote:
However I met a particular idiot from US once. He claimed he is from US and English is his native language but he answered my question: "Did you buy it or find it somewhere?"(question about an item in online game) with a "Yes" and I couldn't get him to answer me properly.


Technically that's a perfectly valid response.

Did you x or y?
Yes. (Yes means that I did either x or y.)

While most people understand that you mean 'exclusive or' and not 'or', electronics geeks and programming geeks have a tendency to sometimes respond with an answer that is strictly correct and not the contextually correct answer.

Yeah. But he still wouldn't answer properly when I made it clear I want to know which one it was because I wanted to know either how much it was or where it dropped.


Ahh, I wouldn't assume stupid, just rude. To be fair though, you were there and I wasn't, so you have better insight into whether it was an issue of comprehension or a choice to respond inappropriately.


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