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QuantumChemist
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06 Jan 2018, 11:06 am

HistoryGal wrote:
The math screening and remedial classes are to do. Nobody should be upset about that since it helps students.


You would think that but the other departments did not like that requirement because it cut down how fast they could push students through their coursework, whether or not they ended up graduating. The problem is that the university tied a major part of departmental funding to the number of students in each program and how many graduated from that department. Our classes tended to eliminate some of their students, so they saw it as a problem.

I used to teach a non-major, non-lab general chemistry course that was tailored for these students. Unfortunately, I had a group of self-indulged nursing students in that class complain how pointless it was for them to learn chemistry. So, for the final exam, a part of it was designed to get a point across to them. I set up specific problems involving finding the correct molarity of IV drug solutions that needed to be given to patients. The point was to keep the patient alive. Guess what? Very few of the nursing students could get that set of problems correct, yet a majority of the other majors did and thought it was fun to test this way. The nursing students tried to complain that it was not realistic, as they only administer solutions that are already prepared for them. I mentioned that someday they might have to know that information in the case of a real emergency, but they just ignored me and walked away.

I had quite a few "repeat offenders" from that area alone. The next year, the nursing department changed their requirements to a higher level of chemistry courses with labs and allowed the students to opt out in favor of a biology course instead. Most went the biology route after that. I do not have a problem with nursing students in general, most are very intelligent. Some of my best students were from that area. However, I do have a problem with students who become so self-entitled that they think they know everything just starting out. I would never want them to work on me, even if I am on my death bed.



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06 Jan 2018, 12:58 pm

ladyelaine wrote:
I think there are classes that should be graduation requirements for all high schoolers. Core academics are important, but so are life skills such as budgeting and driving. I think students should have to take a financial education course, drivers Ed, and sex Ed. Trades courses should be available for students that don't want to do the traditional college route. What do you guys think?



My school did do finances and job interviews and resumes and cover letters and we did politics and cooking and child development. But lot of them were electives was the problem. The only mandatory classes we had were government and consumers and we did document processing, and PE and health class, and driver's ed.

My high school also did careers too so they had woodworking and welding and mechanics and computers and stuff like that. We even did career fair. The career fair was mandatory but the career classes were electives.

Are there really high schools that don't have these courses?



Quote:
It started with Bush, No Child Left Behind.


I don't know why people blame this on Obama. I remember Bush started this. I was in my freshman year of high school when I heard this law and it passed and became affect in 2001. I was even proposed for it then because of kids with disabilities like me and my school tried to abandon me but if it weren't for my AS diagnoses, my school would have just said I had behavior and kick me out of their school and have me be put in a behavior class. We had no child left behind act in 6th grade. I still don't get why this law is an issue. Are they against helping kids with disabilities and learning differences and those who are slow learners?


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HistoryGal
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06 Jan 2018, 1:18 pm

I admire you, Quantum Chemist. Keep the faith. You are what makes education special.



livingwithautism
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06 Jan 2018, 4:51 pm

ladyelaine wrote:
I think there are classes that should be graduation requirements for all high schoolers. Core academics are important, but so are life skills such as budgeting and driving. I think students should have to take a financial education course, drivers Ed, and sex Ed. Trades courses should be available for students that don't want to do the traditional college route. What do you guys think?


Actually all of those things were offered in my high school. Most of them were required for graduation, except for trade courses. Those were optional but so were art and music.



livingwithautism
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06 Jan 2018, 4:55 pm

Quote:
It started with Bush, No Child Left Behind.


Quote:
I don't know why people blame this on Obama. I remember Bush started this. I was in my freshman year of high school when I heard this law and it passed and became affect in 2001. I was even proposed for it then because of kids with disabilities like me and my school tried to abandon me but if it weren't for my AS diagnoses, my school would have just said I had behavior and kick me out of their school and have me be put in a behavior class. We had no child left behind act in 6th grade. I still don't get why this law is an issue. Are they against helping kids with disabilities and learning differences and those who are slow learners?


The irony of the situation is that No Child Left Behind was started to identify students with disabilities to provide services to them. Unfortunately it failed miserably.



Last edited by livingwithautism on 06 Jan 2018, 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

League_Girl
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06 Jan 2018, 5:09 pm

livingwithautism wrote:
Quote:
It started with Bush, No Child Left Behind.


I don't know why people blame this on Obama. I remember Bush started this. I was in my freshman year of high school when I heard this law and it passed and became affect in 2001. I was even proposed for it then because of kids with disabilities like me and my school tried to abandon me but if it weren't for my AS diagnoses, my school would have just said I had behavior and kick me out of their school and have me be put in a behavior class. We had no child left behind act in 6th grade. I still don't get why this law is an issue. Are they against helping kids with disabilities and learning differences and those who are slow learners?


The irony of the situation is that No Child Left Behind was started to identify students with disabilities to provide services to them. Unfortunately it failed miserably.[/quote]


In what way it failed?

I tried researching this and trying to find reasons people are opposed to it. One psychologist claimed this has lead to more diagnosing on students when in fact these are just ordinary kids and I am like "So it's bad to help these children?" If more kids are visual learners today, why not change the teaching style or are they still in the minority?

What about kids who do have a disability but don't fit in any diagnoses? I wonder how that psychologist feels about it. He also had an old definition of autism and an old fashioned view on it so it made me wonder how many autistic people who are high functioning would he undiagnose. He also said autism diagnoses happens more in the US than in the UK because it's more acceptable to be weird in the UK. I did hear on here how difficult it is to get diagnosed with an ASD in the UK and some members here writing how they can't get diagnosed because they are "too high functioning."


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livingwithautism
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06 Jan 2018, 5:17 pm

League_Girl wrote:
livingwithautism wrote:
Quote:
It started with Bush, No Child Left Behind.


I don't know why people blame this on Obama. I remember Bush started this. I was in my freshman year of high school when I heard this law and it passed and became affect in 2001. I was even proposed for it then because of kids with disabilities like me and my school tried to abandon me but if it weren't for my AS diagnoses, my school would have just said I had behavior and kick me out of their school and have me be put in a behavior class. We had no child left behind act in 6th grade. I still don't get why this law is an issue. Are they against helping kids with disabilities and learning differences and those who are slow learners?


The irony of the situation is that No Child Left Behind was started to identify students with disabilities to provide services to them. Unfortunately it failed miserably.



Quote:
In what way it failed?

I tried researching this and trying to find reasons people are opposed to it. One psychologist claimed this has lead to more diagnosing on students when in fact these are just ordinary kids and I am like "So it's bad to help these children?" If more kids are visual learners today, why not change the teaching style or are they still in the minority?

What about kids who do have a disability but don't fit in any diagnoses? I wonder how that psychologist feels about it. He also had an old definition of autism and an old fashioned view on it so it made me wonder how many autistic people who are high functioning would he undiagnose. He also said autism diagnoses happens more in the US than in the UK because it's more acceptable to be weird in the UK. I did hear on here how difficult it is to get diagnosed with an ASD in the UK and some members here writing how they can't get diagnosed because they are "too high functioning."


It failed because it used multpile choice standardized testing as a large part of Child Find, also relying on teachers, who aren't child development experts. Therefore missing lots of children. Because you can't find all disabilities on multiple choice tests.



kraftiekortie
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06 Jan 2018, 5:19 pm

There is a perception of "failure" because it seems as if other countries are outstripping us educationally.



ladyelaine
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06 Jan 2018, 5:23 pm

League_Girl wrote:
ladyelaine wrote:
I think there are classes that should be graduation requirements for all high schoolers. Core academics are important, but so are life skills such as budgeting and driving. I think students should have to take a financial education course, drivers Ed, and sex Ed. Trades courses should be available for students that don't want to do the traditional college route. What do you guys think?



My school did do finances and job interviews and resumes and cover letters and we did politics and cooking and child development. But lot of them were electives was the problem. The only mandatory classes we had were government and consumers and we did document processing, and PE and health class, and driver's ed.

My high school also did careers too so they had woodworking and welding and mechanics and computers and stuff like that. We even did career fair. The career fair was mandatory but the career classes were electives.

Are there really high schools that don't have these courses?



Quote:
It started with Bush, No Child Left Behind.


I don't know why people blame this on Obama. I remember Bush started this. I was in my freshman year of high school when I heard this law and it passed and became affect in 2001. I was even proposed for it then because of kids with disabilities like me and my school tried to abandon me but if it weren't for my AS diagnoses, my school would have just said I had behavior and kick me out of their school and have me be put in a behavior class. We had no child left behind act in 6th grade. I still don't get why this law is an issue. Are they against helping kids with disabilities and learning differences and those who are slow learners?


I think a career class is a good idea too. My old high school used to have a nine week career course that incorporated into other classes. For me and my brother, it was part of the first semester of NJROTC. My sister never took a career class in high school because they didn't make it a requirement anymore once she got to high school. I think a semester long class completely dedicated to careers and the job acquisition process would have been better than cramming the career class into other classes.



ladyelaine
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06 Jan 2018, 5:29 pm

livingwithautism wrote:
Quote:
It started with Bush, No Child Left Behind.


I don't know why people blame this on Obama. I remember Bush started this. I was in my freshman year of high school when I heard this law and it passed and became affect in 2001. I was even proposed for it then because of kids with disabilities like me and my school tried to abandon me but if it weren't for my AS diagnoses, my school would have just said I had behavior and kick me out of their school and have me be put in a behavior class. We had no child left behind act in 6th grade. I still don't get why this law is an issue. Are they against helping kids with disabilities and learning differences and those who are slow learners?


The irony of the situation is that No Child Left Behind was started to identify students with disabilities to provide services to them. Unfortunately it failed miserably.[/quote]

NCLB failed because of the excessive testing that did not paint an accurate picture of what students can and can't do.



ladyelaine
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06 Jan 2018, 5:36 pm

livingwithautism wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
livingwithautism wrote:
Quote:
It started with Bush, No Child Left Behind.


I don't know why people blame this on Obama. I remember Bush started this. I was in my freshman year of high school when I heard this law and it passed and became affect in 2001. I was even proposed for it then because of kids with disabilities like me and my school tried to abandon me but if it weren't for my AS diagnoses, my school would have just said I had behavior and kick me out of their school and have me be put in a behavior class. We had no child left behind act in 6th grade. I still don't get why this law is an issue. Are they against helping kids with disabilities and learning differences and those who are slow learners?


The irony of the situation is that No Child Left Behind was started to identify students with disabilities to provide services to them. Unfortunately it failed miserably.



Quote:
In what way it failed?

I tried researching this and trying to find reasons people are opposed to it. One psychologist claimed this has lead to more diagnosing on students when in fact these are just ordinary kids and I am like "So it's bad to help these children?" If more kids are visual learners today, why not change the teaching style or are they still in the minority?

What about kids who do have a disability but don't fit in any diagnoses? I wonder how that psychologist feels about it. He also had an old definition of autism and an old fashioned view on it so it made me wonder how many autistic people who are high functioning would he undiagnose. He also said autism diagnoses happens more in the US than in the UK because it's more acceptable to be weird in the UK. I did hear on here how difficult it is to get diagnosed with an ASD in the UK and some members here writing how they can't get diagnosed because they are "too high functioning."


It failed because it used multpile choice standardized testing as a large part of Child Find, also relying on teachers, who aren't child development experts. Therefore missing lots of children. Because you can't find all disabilities on multiple choice tests.


Most teachers have little to no knowledge about most disabilities. The testing is ridiculous.



League_Girl
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06 Jan 2018, 5:43 pm

livingwithautism wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
livingwithautism wrote:
Quote:
It started with Bush, No Child Left Behind.


I don't know why people blame this on Obama. I remember Bush started this. I was in my freshman year of high school when I heard this law and it passed and became affect in 2001. I was even proposed for it then because of kids with disabilities like me and my school tried to abandon me but if it weren't for my AS diagnoses, my school would have just said I had behavior and kick me out of their school and have me be put in a behavior class. We had no child left behind act in 6th grade. I still don't get why this law is an issue. Are they against helping kids with disabilities and learning differences and those who are slow learners?


The irony of the situation is that No Child Left Behind was started to identify students with disabilities to provide services to them. Unfortunately it failed miserably.


Quote:
In what way it failed?

I tried researching this and trying to find reasons people are opposed to it. One psychologist claimed this has lead to more diagnosing on students when in fact these are just ordinary kids and I am like "So it's bad to help these children?" If more kids are visual learners today, why not change the teaching style or are they still in the minority?

What about kids who do have a disability but don't fit in any diagnoses? I wonder how that psychologist feels about it. He also had an old definition of autism and an old fashioned view on it so it made me wonder how many autistic people who are high functioning would he undiagnose. He also said autism diagnoses happens more in the US than in the UK because it's more acceptable to be weird in the UK. I did hear on here how difficult it is to get diagnosed with an ASD in the UK and some members here writing how they can't get diagnosed because they are "too high functioning."


It failed because it used multpile choice standardized testing as a large part of Child Find, also relying on teachers, who aren't child development experts. Therefore missing lots of children. Because you can't find all disabilities on multiple choice tests.


So they are still not seeing disabilities in kids unless they have a behavior or are failing in school if I am understanding correctly. Teachers are not going to notice a thing if the kid doesn't have any behavior and isn't having academic issues so they won't suspect anything and call in the school district to evaluate the child.


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06 Jan 2018, 5:47 pm

ladyelaine wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
ladyelaine wrote:
I think there are classes that should be graduation requirements for all high schoolers. Core academics are important, but so are life skills such as budgeting and driving. I think students should have to take a financial education course, drivers Ed, and sex Ed. Trades courses should be available for students that don't want to do the traditional college route. What do you guys think?



My school did do finances and job interviews and resumes and cover letters and we did politics and cooking and child development. But lot of them were electives was the problem. The only mandatory classes we had were government and consumers and we did document processing, and PE and health class, and driver's ed.

My high school also did careers too so they had woodworking and welding and mechanics and computers and stuff like that. We even did career fair. The career fair was mandatory but the career classes were electives.

Are there really high schools that don't have these courses?



Quote:
It started with Bush, No Child Left Behind.


I don't know why people blame this on Obama. I remember Bush started this. I was in my freshman year of high school when I heard this law and it passed and became affect in 2001. I was even proposed for it then because of kids with disabilities like me and my school tried to abandon me but if it weren't for my AS diagnoses, my school would have just said I had behavior and kick me out of their school and have me be put in a behavior class. We had no child left behind act in 6th grade. I still don't get why this law is an issue. Are they against helping kids with disabilities and learning differences and those who are slow learners?


I think a career class is a good idea too. My old high school used to have a nine week career course that incorporated into other classes. For me and my brother, it was part of the first semester of NJROTC. My sister never took a career class in high school because they didn't make it a requirement anymore once she got to high school. I think a semester long class completely dedicated to careers and the job acquisition process would have been better than cramming the career class into other classes.



I didn't do career courses because I was too focused on life skills I didn't have time for any classes like Drama and art and Spanish. I didn't get to those until my junior year because I had more electives and I do regret not taking more career courses because I didn't get to see what I would be good at. My school offered creative writing too and photography.


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Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.


livingwithautism
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06 Jan 2018, 5:48 pm

The irony of the situation is that No Child Left Behind was started to identify students with disabilities to provide services to them. Unfortunately it failed miserably.

Quote:
NCLB failed because of the excessive testing that did not paint an accurate picture of what students can and can't do.


That's essemtially what I said. Multiple choice standardized testing that can't accurately identify disabilities.



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06 Jan 2018, 5:52 pm

NCLB was the start of standardized testing and merit-based pay for teachers, admin, and school districts. If students don't perform well on standardized test, then the school is shut down or at least loses money. Before teachers had a bit of freedom depending on the state or district to assess however they saw fit. Now it affects their paycheck and maybe even employment, so classes focus on teaching to the test and have moved away from trades, arts, phys ed. Forcing everyone to do well on a standardized test does not support students with learning disabilities. They can get extra time...still a good way for many to assess individual knowledge and skills. If NCLB allowed for student choice between test, portfolio, or real-life application, then measuring mastery of a subject would be authentic.