HFA in Boy's Club

Page 4 of 6 [ 82 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next

TwoBlocked
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: 4 Jan 2018
Age: 1968
Gender: Male
Posts: 30
Location: Pennsylvania

06 Jan 2018, 6:15 am

Let me relate another incident involving Hal. I am hoping you fine folks can at least see why I view him capable of manipulation and malevolence like most boys. I do not ask anyone to agree with me and welcome alternate interpretations. One interpretation that will mean little to me would be a short quip like "That's what aspies do!" Also, please understand that I am not condemning Hal and am trying to be nonjudgmental. I won't go into my religious beliefs on this. A big fear I have for Hal is he will do something perceived as antisocial as he becomes a teen and get physically assaulted or worse. That happened to a boy in my High School many years ago...

Hal's gang was planning meals for a campout. They were brainstorming, each calling out different items to tentatively put on the menu. Hal called out "fried dirt" which he thought was funny. Nobody else did and some said so. This didn't seem to bother Hal and may have even been the response he was looking for. (This is one of the reasons I think he is being clever to impress himself rather than others. He never fishes for compliments, either.) After there was enough items for a particular menu choice, the boys took turns crossing off any items they just didn't like. When the list got down to 2, they voted on which would be on the menu. A boy I will call Ivan didn't like mozzarella sticks which was an item Hal had called out and so Ivan crossed it out. This upset Hal so much he declared that whatever Ivan put on any list, he would cross out. And that is what Hal did the rest of the meeting. (Ivan is a very stable kid and was puzzled by this but did not get upset. I explained at another meeting what "cutting off your nose to spite your face" means. He kinda got it.) A meeting or two later, out of the blue, Hal said we should elect a new leader (The elected one hadn't been coming.) and that it should be "Sampson" (Ivan's younger brother). This was obviously a deliberate snub on Ivan, who was the natural leader. I have never seen any rivalry between the brothers, btw. It would take quite a bit of convincing to make me believe that Hal is not capable of manipulation and malevolence, just like any other kid.

Anyhoo, there are times that I have seen Hal intensely focused on something and we have let him do so, sometimes to the point of messing up whatever the gang was trying to accomplish. Since it was something he didn't seem to have control over, we blew it off. It's sorta of a messy endeavor, anyway, so no big deal. Those times, sure, we can chalk it up to ASD and get on with what is next. But other times when there is deliberate, planned disruption I have to put it under the category of a kid messing up, hopefully let the gang work it out, and get on with what is next. But in addition to that, I plan on keeping closer tabs on Hal and give him more caring guidance. Kinda like if a kid had a physical problem, giving him tips on how to do what the other kids are doing, maybe helping him over an obstacle when he is really trying.

Maybe some of you can see why I am very hopeful for Hal. From what I gather from you fine folks, manipulation and malevolence are NT traits and not ASD traits. To get along in the NT world, it is best to at least understand it, even if you aren't totally part of it. Since Hal is capable of these traits, he should have the ability to understand them and hopefully control them as time goes by. I am hopeful that he will learn to cope and become independent as a young man. I really do like the kid.

_________________
"The Child is father of the man" William Wordsworth

TwoBlocked
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: 4 Jan 2018
Age: 1968
Gender: Male
Posts: 30
Location: Pennsylvania

06 Jan 2018, 6:32 am

underwater wrote:

I'm going with the assumption that the child is indeed autistic. I find it unlikely that he would have gotten an incorrect diagnosis at such a young age. The lining up of objects when in a confusing social setting supports this, as do the obvious social difficulties. His therapist sounds clueless.

About 'transitioning' from autism: possible, but highly unlikely. A lot of 'transitioning' is just learning life skills. Nobody knows much about this, but most autistics would tell you that people's neurological makeup doesn't change much, it's the strategies and skills that do.

I'm commenting on this thread because 'Hal' reminds me a lot of myself as a child. I would play jokes on people, and in retrospect I see that I was incredibly annoying about it, because every joke went on way too long. The way NT kids do it is they pick a kid with lower social status and push him until he's upset. Meanwhile, the other kids are 'safe' and they deal with it by blaming the victim or ignoring it. Meting out a little bit of teasing for everybody is a very autistic thing to do, we're born democrats. Also, he might be giving himself little challenges by creating a rule that he has to touch each and every kid.

I draw four conclusions from his behavior:

1. He's intelligent, which is why it is so hard to see which of his behaviors are his own and which are just his uninformed copying of other boys.

2. He's extroverted, which is why he is trying to to figure out the rules of social interactions by interacting with others and trying to make a pattern out of how they react. A more introverted child with the same intelligence would be passively observing to a larger extent.

3. He's been trained to mimic neurotypical behavior. There may have been some abuse involved in this, physical or emotional. Has he received ABA therapy? Some of that is incredibly effective at scaring autistics kids into copying NT behavior.

4. He probably has hyposensitivities. Were you looking for those, or only for hypersensitivities? Be aware of the fact that the same sense can be both hyper- and hyposensitive in different conditions. I can be hyposensitive to loud sounds, but hypersensitive to softer sounds, as an example.

Here is a good explanation of sensitivities: http://www.autism.org.uk/about/behaviou ... world.aspx

I agree with eikonabridge about special interest, though. He should be boring the other kids to tears with explanations about things he finds fascinating. I often found when I was little that some adults liked talking to me because I was so precocious, though. Sometimes the brainier kids have a variety of interests, so they're more able to converse on a range of topics. He may have received a strong message about not talking about special interests.

This 'handshake' thing is something that would boggle the mind of an autistic boy, though. You're basically training kids in the art of fake apologies, and he is of course not able to fake it. I doubt any of them have much empathy for others at that age, and he, because of his autism, is emotionally immature. Automatically deduct a few years from his chronological age when it comes to this kind of thing.

Here's how I would interpret your behaviors at that age: most likely, the other boys are pranking each other, but hiding it better. Or one of them does, and Hal is copying him. It may be someone at school. Since he sees other boys doing fake handshakes/apologies, he assumes that it is all part of the game. Because he has Theory of Mind issues, he believes that you are aware of what the other boys are doing, but you are for some reason harder on him. So he sees it all as a big game that he hasn't really figured out the rules of, and that you don't really mean all the stuff you say about being sorry. The handshake thing is something very insincere, which would lead an intelligent autistic child to think he is surrounded by insincere adults, which is supported by the fact that he has obviously been drilled at faking a lot of social skills at home. In his position I would not take these adults very seriously, as, obviously, they are likely to say all sorts of things they don't mean, for some reason that is unfathomable to an autistic child. Basically, adults do crazy stuff.

Also, if as you say your organization has a religious base, he may be one of those autistics who just don't 'get' religion. I remember going to Sunday School and thinking 'Why are these adults telling lies to children? These stories are obviously not true.' It led to a lifelong distrust of religious people. I assumed that religious people were lying intentionally, because I didn't understand that people could believe things that didn't make logical sense.

Also, the empathy thing: he may not have much of an idea about personal boundaries because people are overstepping his boundaries all the time, and he assumes he is just as valuable as the next person; therefore if he has to put up with crap, others should also stop whining at small stuff.

If he is indeed autistic, he will respond to logical explanations of things. Logic gets through to us in a way that feelings don't.

I don't know the kid, but here is an alternative explanation. It may be wrong. You may also be wrong. I see a lot of baseless assumptions about his motivations in your posts. If you could stick to observed facts and not interpretations, it would be of help.

Please recognize that Theory of Mind goes both ways; NTs are rubbish at interpreting autistic body language and intentions. You are just as handicapped as he is in this situation.

Thank you very, very much for the long detailed, comprehensive post. We cross posted, which might be a good thing, us not influencing what each other wrote. I will study your post carefully and there is every reason to talk to Hal in a logical manner about rules. Just his response may teach me much. I also recognize an additional problem with Hal and the handshake. He doesn't like to be touched very much, but is putting up with it. You may think expecting him to do so is kinda like torture, but this is a social endeavor, and he really looks forward to coming. I sometimes wonder why. I guess I will ask, maybe with the gang. Maybe we will come up with a list of do's and don'ts for the gang!

As far as religion in the Club, we focus more on the moral implications rather than the theological or history stuff. Hal will occasionally mention religious tenants, but it seems to be by rote, without much understanding, well, like most kids.

And for clarification, the Club Handshake is used for much more than reconciliation. It is also used to welcoming new members and for a general greeting. It is part of our identity. It is also used when joking around, like when someone pulls a benign trick on someone, or gives a left-handed compliment. Hal does understand sarcasm, but uses it awkwardly. I doubt if he has had ABA therapy, but I suppose he is unintentionally getting some of that in the Club. What do you think of it?

_________________
"The Child is father of the man" William Wordsworth

magz
Forum Moderator

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

08 Jan 2018, 1:11 pm

Okay, I can admit Hal may enjoy some trolling. My brother has this trait and I don't see it really colliding with ASD.
No, you are not doing ABA unintentionally. Luckily. ABA is awful.

I sometimes behaved randomly in social situations, some of the perceived manipulations could be random behaviors and/or testing responses. As with ASD we don't have natural social intuition, we need to learn how society works other ways. Some may experiment and these experiments may be all about provocations. Especially for the extroverted ones, they enjoy interaction and if they can't afford "good" interaction, trolling will give them any.

I wish you all the best with the group!

_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>

TwoBlocked
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: 4 Jan 2018
Age: 1968
Gender: Male
Posts: 30
Location: Pennsylvania

08 Jan 2018, 2:14 pm

magz wrote:

Testing responses and trolling (although I would use the phrase "seeking attention".) Sure, why not? Part of growing is figuring how fast you can run, and what you can get away with, along with how best to draw attention to yourself. Hal did respond positively at the last meeting when I confronted him about throwing the ball at a boy's face and turning over the buckets. I made sure I did it in a positive manner. At the end of the meeting I told him I thought he did really well. He may be seeking this sort of guidance.

And thanks, all, for challenging the use of the Club Handshake. I can see how some boys could conceive it as a groveling punishment for the accused and a haughty pardon from the aggrieved when it should be simply a reconciliation between gang members, which is its intention. Still, sometimes a boy himself will feel a deep need to apologize. We will need to carefully watch how it is used.

But also you fine folks have challenged me to re-think about the whole remorse thing. There have been times I knew my actions would offend someone, but I did them anyway in order to preserve my own dignity. I then said I was sorry their feelings were hurt, but did not apologize for my actions. Other times I have done things that caused trouble that I would not do again, but I did not feel remorse. Just learned how some people are. There is a saying: "Respect fools to avoid noise." So I see no harm with someone involved in reconciliation saying "I am sorry you were hurt." or "I won't do it again." when they feel no remorse rather than lying and saying "I am sorry for what I did. I apologize."

Btw, the boy that took great exception to Hal putting the sizzling hotdog against his bare skin should be re-joining this gang. This other boy, "Mike", forms grudges and holds onto them far too easily. I am looking forward to some confrontations we can all grow from.

_________________
"The Child is father of the man" William Wordsworth

underwater
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Sep 2015
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,904
Location: Hibernating

08 Jan 2018, 2:18 pm

I wrote a really long answer and captcha ate it all. I have a family and lots of new obligations coming up, I can't devote more time to this, particularly as my executive functioning sucks

Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0mIFmRCaCs

It's one of the best documentaries around. Among other things, it shows ABA, which is basically dog training for autistic kids. Don't do that. Just imagine people doing that crap to you, and feel the horror.

Just keep explaining things to him in a logical fashion, and ask him for his reasoning. If he won't tell you how he feels about something, it might be because he has no way of identifying and expressing complex emotions.

Read up on alexithymia and delayed emotional reactions. This may explain why he doesn't seem to react to things.

I think you are misinterpreting a lot of his intentions. I agree with Magz that he may be far from saintly, he probably just thinks he's copying the other boys.

If he's sensitive to touch, he may not see much difference in forcing people to shake hands and holding a sizzling hot dog to their skin.

There are a lot of old threads on WP that you can turn to for info.

_________________
I sometimes leave conversations and return after a long time. I am sorry about it, but I need a lot of time to think about it when I am not sure how I feel.

ASDMommyASDKid
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,666

08 Jan 2018, 2:34 pm

magz wrote:

Trolling is a good way to look at it, but, your post reminded me of something. You know, the way a toddler tests you by spilling his food to see what you do and then proceeds to repeat the action over and over again to see if the results are the same? My son would test social cause and effect that way. I imagine him thinking: "If I do this action, what happens? What if I try it again?" He never communicated any of that verbally, of course, but I am thinking about it, and think that was sometimes what he was doing and then he was misinterpreting the results.

That may also be something that applies here.

underwater
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Sep 2015
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,904
Location: Hibernating

08 Jan 2018, 3:12 pm

ASDMommyASDKid wrote:

magz wrote:

I did that. It all went into the Big Library of Interactions. I tried to figure out what people were thinking and feeling based on how they reacted to stimuli. It's what you do when you know something is going on but not what.

Kinda the NT process upside down.

_________________
I sometimes leave conversations and return after a long time. I am sorry about it, but I need a lot of time to think about it when I am not sure how I feel.

TwoBlocked
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: 4 Jan 2018
Age: 1968
Gender: Male
Posts: 30
Location: Pennsylvania

09 Jan 2018, 9:29 am

underwater wrote:

Thanks for posting the link! I watched the video and made some notes and thought quite a bit. Many may not like what I have to say. I saw it as favoring one side of the story - those with high functioning autism. Little was presented about those that need to deal with more typical autistics. I wonder how a high functioning autistic would deal with a low functioning one...

First, I can understand Chris Packham's point of view very well. I am not on the spectrum, but can see it from here. I think I can understand and sympathize with both sides more than most. More than anything, I'd like to find ways to help Hal best. And since I truly admire and respect him, it must be for what HE desires, no one else. It also must be for what he is capable of and in ways that are, well, righteous. And finally, it must be done following the model of what the Club does - group dynamics.

Ya' know, human society has done things no animal societies can even approach. Even our closest relations, chimps, are nothing compared to us. This is because of the cooperative societies we are able to build. Empathy resulting in natural compassion is the fabric of human society. In the first section about 11:00 Chris' sister reminisces about when they were kids how everything seemed centered on Chris' interests. She remembers asking Chris "Why are you so good at manipulating people?" The answer she remembered was "Its 'cause the, I don't really care about them that much." I see this in Hal, although I have been reprimanded for it here. I am OK with both him being that way and for being reprimanded for it. Although I am not particularly social myself, I very much want others to succeed socially.

So being non-judgmental, I understand those that are blessed with empathy being naturally compassionate only with those that also possess empathy and are naturally compassionate. In other words, Neuro-Typicals. And I can see those that are not blessed with empathy becoming furious for being excluded or worse over something they do not have a clue about. In other words Autistics.

It's like a color blind person in an art class, only worse. Because of the lack of empathy they cannot feel compassion for those NTs that have no compassion for them. Those that want to "fix" them, those that have compassion only for what they think the autistic person should be, not what they actually are. But do autistics have genuine compassion, the kind that comes from empathy, at all? Well, I suppose some have more than others. Many are fond of animals, but is it for the love they can get from them or the love they can give to them? Chris was concerned for how he would deal with his dog's death, not how he could best care for him until them.

Hal has a dog named "Joe". When I need to talk to Hal about how to treat people I may say that he should not do something to a person that he would not do to Joe. There are some religious tenants that he may accept along these lines. I think he wants to succeed socially as much as possible and this should help him.

There is one other thing about the video that struck me. Chris was asked if he would want to be "cured" of autism if it was possible. He said no and the reason was all the abilities he would lose. That is looking at it like a zero sum game - gain social abilities at the expense of mental abilities. This assumes that the mental abilities are only because of the lack of social ones. There are many brilliant people with both. Chris' mental abilities could be in spite of the social inabilities rather than because of them. Chris himself quoted a statistic that only 14% of autistics had full time employment in the UK. Chris didn't seem to consider how much more his partner would enjoy his company if he was more social. Well, of course not!

_________________
"The Child is father of the man" William Wordsworth

underwater
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Sep 2015
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,904
Location: Hibernating

09 Jan 2018, 12:26 pm

All right, here we go. You have misunderstood a lot, but since I haven't seen Hal but we have both watched the documentary, let's talk about that. Maybe I can explain where you are getting it wrong.

TwoBlocked wrote:

Of course it tells the story of 'high functioning autism'. There are very few so-called low functioning (a misleading and annoying term) autistics who could pull together a documentary of this quality. Packham is an experienced tv presenter with contacts the rest of us can only dream of. The moment you get a documentary about less verbal autistics, you get a lot of misinformation along with it, and you almost exclusively see the person through other people.

What makes the documentary great is how it explains the inner world that is so central in autism. Most documentaries show a lot of outer behavior unexplained.

Quite a few more independent autistics work in the caring professions taking care of more disabled autistics. We have some members here. They are often able to interpret the behavior of nonverbal autistics in a was neurotypicals cannot. As such, they are of great help to people who can't speak up for themselves. We also have members on WP who need a lot of assistance, but are more able to write than speak.

TwoBlocked wrote:

First, I can understand Chris Packham's point of view very well. I am not on the spectrum, but can see it from here. I think I can understand and sympathize with both sides more than most. More than anything, I'd like to find ways to help Hal best. And since I truly admire and respect him, it must be for what HE desires, no one else. It also must be for what he is capable of and in ways that are, well, righteous. And finally, it must be done following the model of what the Club does - group dynamics.

Ya' know, human society has done things no animal societies can even approach. Even our closest relations, chimps, are nothing compared to us. This is because of the cooperative societies we are able to build. Empathy resulting in natural compassion is the fabric of human society. In the first section about 11:00 Chris' sister reminisces about when they were kids how everything seemed centered on Chris' interests. She remembers asking Chris "Why are you so good at manipulating people?" The answer she remembered was "Its 'cause the, I don't really care about them that much." I see this in Hal, although I have been reprimanded for it here. I am OK with both him being that way and for being reprimanded for it. Although I am not particularly social myself, I very much want others to succeed socially.

Chimpanzees have empathy. They are remarkably similar to humans. You are misunderstanding what empathy means when used by scientists. There is cognitive empathy, the ability to identify emotions in others, and affective empathy, the ability to care, of which compassion is part.

Affective empathy is intact in autistics. What this means is that we care as much as the next person, we just have a lot of trouble understanding what is going on. When we do try to help others we usually do it in a clumsy way, because we try to offer the kind of help that we ourselves would like to get. This tends to backfire, we get punished for it, people get angry at us, so we learn early not to try to help others.

Scientists used to believe that autistics did not feel affective empathy, but that was a long time ago, and science has moved on since then. Unfortunately the myth about unempathic autistics persists. It seems to be particularly strong in the US for some reason.

What is fascinating is that you are missing the time element. The sister asked Chris this at a point where he was a traumatized child or teenager. Remember that autistics mature late. You are assuming that he doesn't have empathy just because his empathy levels match those of a much younger person. Over time, autistics catch up. It just has to be learnt in a cognitive way, not an emotional one.

TwoBlocked wrote:

So being non-judgmental, I understand those that are blessed with empathy being naturally compassionate only with those that also possess empathy and are naturally compassionate. In other words, Neuro-Typicals. And I can see those that are not blessed with empathy becoming furious for being excluded or worse over something they do not have a clue about. In other words Autistics.

What you just wrote was incredibly sanctimonous. This kind of stuff really upsets autistic people. You are being extremely judgmental. Neuroptypicals are not naturally compassionate. They are just as compassionate or incompassionate as autistics. It varies from person to person. What neurotypicals have is the ability to identify other people's emotional states. By your logic, sociopaths are nice people. They have cognitive empathy but not the affective kind, or at least less of it. Both these things exist on a scale.

It is painful being punished over and over again when you are only trying to do the right thing. Even the most unempathic autistics tend to be moral and decent.

It is also hard because NTs tend to have limited cognitive empathy with us. Because you have a limited ability to read our emotional state, you do a lot of unintentionally cruel things to us, just like Hal does with his friends. It's a two way thing, they do it to him and he to them, yet you only see what he does. Why? Because you lack cognitive empathy with him.

TwoBlocked wrote:

It's like a color blind person in an art class, only worse. Because of the lack of empathy they cannot feel compassion for those NTs that have no compassion for them. Those that want to "fix" them, those that have compassion only for what they think the autistic person should be, not what they actually are. But do autistics have genuine compassion, the kind that comes from empathy, at all? Well, I suppose some have more than others. Many are fond of animals, but is it for the love they can get from them or the love they can give to them? Chris was concerned for how he would deal with his dog's death, not how he could best care for him until them.

Chris Packham is British, for crying out loud. They're not a touchy-feely lot. He knows how to deal with taking care of his dog, and because he is autistic he is not advertising his empathy - read up on 'virtue signalling'. It's not something autistics do. And love is always a give-and-take. It's a private thing, those deep feelings. Packham was trying to get across how serious his dependence on his dog was.

Yes, autistics can and feel empathy for all kinds of people. It depends on the autistic person.

Yes, to me you are like a colour blind person. You don't see Chris's emotions in the documentary, his compassion, rage, love, all these things appear before your eyes and you don't see them.

TwoBlocked wrote:

Hal has a dog named "Joe". When I need to talk to Hal about how to treat people I may say that he should not do something to a person that he would not do to Joe. There are some religious tenants that he may accept along these lines. I think he wants to succeed socially as much as possible and this should help him.

Sounds great. The dog is probably giving him the empathy other people aren't.

TwoBlocked wrote:

There is one other thing about the video that struck me. Chris was asked if he would want to be "cured" of autism if it was possible. He said no and the reason was all the abilities he would lose. That is looking at it like a zero sum game - gain social abilities at the expense of mental abilities. This assumes that the mental abilities are only because of the lack of social ones. There are many brilliant people with both. Chris' mental abilities could be in spite of the social inabilities rather than because of them. Chris himself quoted a statistic that only 14% of autistics had full time employment in the UK. Chris didn't seem to consider how much more his partner would enjoy his company if he was more social. Well, of course not!

Nah. Some of those talents really are due to autism. Partly it has to do with systemising. We tend to be unusual in a lot of ways. Most autistics don't have those kind of talents, but they exist.

Also, the fantastic sensory experiences is something that would be hard to let got of. There are people who say LSD makes people feel like autistics do. I haven't tried it and am not going to, but it is an interesting idea.

The statistics on employment are extremely unreliable. It only concerns people who have a diagnosis. There are lots of people who fit the diagnostic criteria but function well enough in life to avoid diagnosis.

_________________
I sometimes leave conversations and return after a long time. I am sorry about it, but I need a lot of time to think about it when I am not sure how I feel.

karathraceandherspecialdestiny
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 22 Jan 2017
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,857

09 Jan 2018, 12:50 pm

TwoBlocked wrote:

underwater wrote:

Honestly, until you are better informed about autism and empathy I don't think you should be working with autistic children. I'm sure you will just see this as an autistic person "judging" you, but the ignorance you display here really has me concerned that you are going to harm this child with your misunderstanding of how his mind works. You really need to read up more on autism and what it is (good current research) and you need to spend a lot more time getting to know how the autistic mind works from actual autistic people rather than your own "clinical knowledge" if you're going to be any practical help to autistic kids.

You seem rather impervious to taking in new information from adult autistic people, and that has me very worried for Hal's sake. I wonder if you have truly considered anything that's been said to you here by autistic adults or have just filed it away in your brain as "autistic misinformation about themselves". You talk at us rather than to us, with supreme NT arrogance based in I'm not sure what as your "expertise" in understanding autism is severely lacking, and it doesn't bode well for Hal.

I hope therapists and social workers that have such a limited understanding of autism are dinosaurs that are on the way out, and that you don't represent the majority of NT people in such professions, responsible for vulnerable children and young people.

ASDMommyASDKid
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,666

09 Jan 2018, 1:07 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:

TwoBlocked wrote:

underwater wrote:

NT social conditioning is a terrifyingly strong thing. It produces a type of rigidity that I think is just as strong as the hard-wired kind. If the OP's community is anything like mine, everything is viewed through the lens of good or poor character. It is hard for NTs to fight it unless they are really motivated to do so. Otherwise, everything is interpreted as confirmation bias or nonsense.

TwoBlocked
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: 4 Jan 2018
Age: 1968
Gender: Male
Posts: 30
Location: Pennsylvania

09 Jan 2018, 1:16 pm

Folks, I have taken what you have said to heart and tried to apply it to what you have said and to what I observe in Hal's behavior. I also have scanned what literature seems appropriate on line. It seems every time I do, there is some kind of "shape-shifting" going on about what autism is, and how it applies to what we are trying to do with Hal. Btw, Hal really likes coming to the meetings and activities. He is also free to stop at any time. If we were so off base as you folks make it sound, he would be long gone.

Good bye and God Bless.

_________________
"The Child is father of the man" William Wordsworth

karathraceandherspecialdestiny
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 22 Jan 2017
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,857

09 Jan 2018, 3:35 pm

TwoBlocked wrote:

I hope "God" or someone is looking out for the people you're "helping". I would suggest sticking around here and reading more input from autistic people, but I don't think it would do you any good as you don't seem capable of taking in new information. I hope you find a job that is better suited to your abilities and leave vulnerable autistic children alone.

underwater
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Sep 2015
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,904
Location: Hibernating

10 Jan 2018, 2:38 am

TwoBlocked wrote:

Half of the sources online are unreliable. Source analysis is important. I would avoid Autism Speaks. The National Autistic Society, which I linked to before, is reliable.

TwoBlocked wrote:

Btw, Hal really likes coming to the meetings and activities. He is also free to stop at any time. If we were so off base as you folks make it sound, he would be long gone.

Good bye and God Bless.

The kid doesn't have alternatives. He would not be long gone, because the alternative is to isolate himself.

He's a brave kid out to experience life. I wish him the best, with his positive attitude he may do well in life - if adults don't try to modify him too much.

- - -

This thread made me really upset. How many times do people come here and ask for advice, then proceed to ignore it, because they are unable to open their minds to the idea that the world is not the way they think it is? Everybody wants a quick fix for autism, where they don't have to go through any personal change to achieve it. But the only way to do it is to start looking at the world differently.

I sometimes wonder why people don't see it for the gift that it is - if you are NT, and you can open your mind in such a way that you start getting glimpses of an autistic reality - then the world opens, possibilities present themselves, ideas appear. You achieve a flexibility and an ability to communicate with different types of people that in the past was unattainable. Isn't that worth some personal discomfort?

_________________
I sometimes leave conversations and return after a long time. I am sorry about it, but I need a lot of time to think about it when I am not sure how I feel.

magz
Forum Moderator

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

10 Jan 2018, 5:08 am

underwater wrote:

Half of the sources online are unreliable. Source analysis is important. I would avoid Autism Speaks.

I like the slogan:
Autism speaks: now it's time to listen!
But they don't.

underwater wrote:

He's a brave kid out to experience life.

This

underwater wrote:

This thread made me really upset. How many times do people come here and ask for advice, then proceed to ignore it, because they are unable to open their minds to the idea that the world is not the way they think it is? Everybody wants a quick fix for autism, where they don't have to go through any personal change to achieve it. But the only way to do it is to start looking at the world differently.

I sometimes wonder why people don't see it for the gift that it is - if you are NT, and you can open your mind in such a way that you start getting glimpses of an autistic reality - then the world opens, possibilities present themselves, ideas appear. You achieve a flexibility and an ability to communicate with different types of people that in the past was unattainable. Isn't that worth some personal discomfort?

For me this thread is far less like what you say than some others in this subforum. The OP is genuinely willing to learn and confronting us is all about digging into the truth. It's nothing close to some other threads here, where some parents ask for easy tricks to discipline an autistic child and then refuse to hear about their child's perspective.

_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>

underwater
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Sep 2015
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,904
Location: Hibernating

10 Jan 2018, 12:41 pm

magz wrote:

underwater wrote:

Actually, you are right. That's why I involved myself in the first place. I thought I saw a glimmer of hope. It's just that the stuff about neurotypicals having the 'gift of empathy' and that sort of crap really stuck in my craw. I'm finding I'm very stressed out these days due to life. I have a lot going on now. I'm probably being oversensitive and losing my patience because of having to say the same things over and over again. Sometimes it feels like chipping away at Ayers' Rock with a toothpick, it's that slow a process.

I'm going to be a lot less active on WP in the foreseeable future. Just too stressed out, and I'm losing my cool and saying things I haven't thought through well enough. Aspie bluntness is just not that great a teaching tool.

I'll be around a bit, but will try to avoid putting my foot in my mouth :mrgreen:

Have a nice evening :heart:

_________________
I sometimes leave conversations and return after a long time. I am sorry about it, but I need a lot of time to think about it when I am not sure how I feel.

Page 4 of 6 [ 82 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next

Jump to:

HFA in Boy's Club Post Reply New Topic

HFA in Boy's Club