US Taxpayers Will Pay for Trump's Wall

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0regonGuy
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10 Jan 2018, 5:17 am

Mexico's response. MEXICO WILL NOT PAY.


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goldfish21
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10 Jan 2018, 5:59 pm

Just listened to some video clip where Trump says he won't sign an immigration order that doesn't include funding for his wall.. that it must be built for security/stopping drugs.

If he truly wanted border security & to prevent drugs from moving around he could do it more effectively for a lot less than $33 BILLION. The ONLY logical reasons to push forward with the wall is to make good on his campaign promises to his base AND shovel money into his friends' wall building corporations.

Economic (migrant worker) & drug policy changes would be more effective at dealing with people & drugs than any wall ever will be.


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DarthMetaKnight
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10 Jan 2018, 8:17 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Just listened to some video clip where Trump says he won't sign an immigration order that doesn't include funding for his wall.. that it must be built for security/stopping drugs.

If he truly wanted border security & to prevent drugs from moving around he could do it more effectively for a lot less than $33 BILLION. The ONLY logical reasons to push forward with the wall is to make good on his campaign promises to his base AND shovel money into his friends' wall building corporations.

Economic (migrant worker) & drug policy changes would be more effective at dealing with people & drugs than any wall ever will be.


In Europe, they tread drug addiction as a illness, rather than a crime. As a result, there are fewer drug problems there.

I'm sick of the argument that "People who support drug legalisation want to inject Heroin into themselves all day long." I, personally, don't do drugs. I usually avoid even alcohol. The only recreational drug that I consume is caffeine ... and we let kids have that one.

I'm just using logic here. Drugs are addictive and people take them when they feel hopeless. Therefore, if we jail people for taking dangerous drugs, they will just go back to the drugs after they are free from prison and struggle to re-integrate into society.

When rich people are hooked on heroin, they go to rehab ... because rehab actually works. That's my position. Everyone should have access to rehab ... and the billionaires should be forced pay for all this.


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goldfish21
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14 Jan 2018, 5:32 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Just listened to some video clip where Trump says he won't sign an immigration order that doesn't include funding for his wall.. that it must be built for security/stopping drugs.

If he truly wanted border security & to prevent drugs from moving around he could do it more effectively for a lot less than $33 BILLION. The ONLY logical reasons to push forward with the wall is to make good on his campaign promises to his base AND shovel money into his friends' wall building corporations.

Economic (migrant worker) & drug policy changes would be more effective at dealing with people & drugs than any wall ever will be.


In Europe, they tread drug addiction as a illness, rather than a crime. As a result, there are fewer drug problems there.

I'm sick of the argument that "People who support drug legalisation want to inject Heroin into themselves all day long." I, personally, don't do drugs. I usually avoid even alcohol. The only recreational drug that I consume is caffeine ... and we let kids have that one.

I'm just using logic here. Drugs are addictive and people take them when they feel hopeless. Therefore, if we jail people for taking dangerous drugs, they will just go back to the drugs after they are free from prison and struggle to re-integrate into society.

When rich people are hooked on heroin, they go to rehab ... because rehab actually works. That's my position. Everyone should have access to rehab ... and the billionaires should be forced pay for all this.



I agree with most of what you say. And the specific Billionaires that should be forced to pay for rehab are the as*hole American family that owns the pharmaceutical company that's made BILLIONS from oxycontin & created the opiod epidemic we have now. People get prescriptions for pain, get addicted, run out of meds & turn to street drugs - so many junkies started out with a back injury or car accident.

But I don't think rehab & abstinence is the be all and end all nor ideal for recreational drugs, either. Yes, it has to be a part of the solution. But there are plenty of non/low addictive drugs that, IMO, should just be standardized and sold in a regulated market just like caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, etc. People should have the freedom of choice to buy pharmaceutical grade pure <insert name> drugs and do them as they please. For those who over-indulge or get addicted to something and want/need change in their lives, rehab should be an option for them.

In Portugal, where all drugs were decriminalized over a decade ago, now that people have proper info available about drugs, fewer people opt to do them in the first place.. and the ones that do harmful drugs at least do them in the medically safest ways possible so they're not overdosing or transmitting diseases. Drug policy approach should be intelligent, not just discouraging their use & rehab etc. Recreational drugs are never EVER going to go away. They should just simply be enjoyed responsibly, like alcohol or cannabis.


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kazanscube
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19 Jan 2018, 8:26 pm

To Heck will I be using what meager resoruces I have scrambled up to go to university to pay great dicator"Trump" and his silly wall.After all, he claims he has such a great amount of wealth why not he pay for his own damned wall himself? Oh, I forgot he is not as wealthy as he claims.


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SH90
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19 Jan 2018, 8:34 pm

kazanscube wrote:
To Heck will I be using what meager resoruces I have scrambled up to go to university to pay great dicator"Trump" and his silly wall.After all, he claims he has such a great amount of wealth why not he pay for his own damned wall himself? Oh, I forgot he is not as wealthy as he claims.


It's okay, you are most likely one of nearly half Americans who don't pay federal income tax.



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19 Jan 2018, 8:42 pm

SH90 wrote:
kazanscube wrote:
To Heck will I be using what meager resoruces I have scrambled up to go to university to pay great dicator"Trump" and his silly wall.After all, he claims he has such a great amount of wealth why not he pay for his own damned wall himself? Oh, I forgot he is not as wealthy as he claims.


It's okay, you are most likely one of nearly half Americans who don't pay federal income tax.


Wrong sir, I don't go around redirecting money to offshore accounts or in banks in countries that have very little income tax in general.


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SH90
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19 Jan 2018, 8:48 pm

kazanscube wrote:
Wrong sir, I don't go around redirecting money to offshore accounts or in banks in countries that have very little income tax in general.


Just because most Americans have taxes withheld from their paychecks, doesn't mean they pay anything. Nearly half get it all back and number of them get more back then they put in... No redirecting of money to offshore accounts needed :roll:



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19 Jan 2018, 9:07 pm

I'm not talking about monies being with held as, I understand that clearly, I don't earn a great deal of fluidic income during the calendar year and whatever I do, I use it to help my neice in an honorable manner.


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LoveNotHate
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19 Jan 2018, 9:09 pm

0regonGuy wrote:
Mexico's response. MEXICO WILL NOT PAY.

All bark, no bite.

Trump has the power.

He just needs to follow through on his threat to end NAFTA, and let Mexican exports crash.

"The country is heavily dependent on U.S. demand, which soaks up around 80 percent of its goods exports".
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-trad ... SKBN1E915C


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SH90
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19 Jan 2018, 9:17 pm

kazanscube wrote:
I'm not talking about monies being with held as, I understand that clearly, I don't earn a great deal of fluidic income during the calendar year and whatever I do, I use it to help my neice in an honorable manner.


So then if you don't pay taxes, then you don't need to worry about your monies be used on the wall... Maybe you should claim your niece (if you can), then you can take more federal tax dollars away from the wall :wall:



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19 Jan 2018, 9:22 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
0regonGuy wrote:
Mexico's response. MEXICO WILL NOT PAY.

All bark, no bite.

Trump has the power.

He just needs to follow through on his threat to end NAFTA, and let Mexican exports crash.


Look how good that worked out when Trump went over to Asia to sign trade deals and not ONE country would negotiate with him nor sign a deal. They all said "We see how you're treating both your neighbours and largest trading partners, Canada & Mexico, so why would we trust you or want to sign a deal with you?"

Basically, Trump imploding NAFTA might do some good for American businesses (that's debatable, there's a win-win reason why countries trade with each other.) but it's likely to do some serious global trade relations damage because Trump will alienate America from the rest of the world when other countries opt to avoid buying anything from America. Whoever is involved in all of these deals has to look beyond the direct impacts between Canada-USA-Mexico and consider the larger, global, implications of their closer-to-home foreign trade policies.

Also, the wall will be a colossal waste of $33,000,000,000.00 as it won't solve the drug or immigration problems it's intended to. People and drugs arrive by plane & boat. A wall can be defeated by a ladder or a tunnel. This is one of the biggest wastes of money, time, energy, and resources ever proposed by any government in the history of the world. The only reason I can see for Donald to push for it is to save face with his base & deliver on this campaign promise in hopes that there are enough racists in America to keep him in power. Otherwise I see very little value in spending $33,000,000,000.00 on this project that's bound to accomplish little, if anything, else.


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kazanscube
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19 Jan 2018, 9:24 pm

Let that jackass pay for the wall, since he is so adamant about wanting it!!


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SH90
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19 Jan 2018, 9:39 pm

kazanscube wrote:
Let that jackass pay for the wall, since he is so adamant about wanting it!!


Personally, I feel the wall is too little and too late... I say hire more border patrol to pickup the littered water bottles people leave out there. Then send the illegals back, more so when catch them committing crimes. Far cheaper then a wall, when a wall is not needed over the entire area (most would die trying to cross in certain sections). More importantly, they should not be getting welfare. If they come in for medical, get them healthy enough for travel and send them back. Discourage people from immigrating here illegally is a good first step and should be done before any wall... Then we would probably never be discussing a wall in the first place.



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19 Jan 2018, 9:48 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
0regonGuy wrote:
Mexico's response. MEXICO WILL NOT PAY.

All bark, no bite.

Trump has the power.

He just needs to follow through on his threat to end NAFTA, and let Mexican exports crash.


Look how good that worked out when Trump went over to Asia to sign trade deals and not ONE country would negotiate with him nor sign a deal. They all said "We see how you're treating both your neighbours and largest trading partners, Canada & Mexico, so why would we trust you or want to sign a deal with you?"

Basically, Trump imploding NAFTA might do some good for American businesses (that's debatable, there's a win-win reason why countries trade with each other.) but it's likely to do some serious global trade relations damage because Trump will alienate America from the rest of the world when other countries opt to avoid buying anything from America. Whoever is involved in all of these deals has to look beyond the direct impacts between Canada-USA-Mexico and consider the larger, global, implications of their closer-to-home foreign trade policies.

Also, the wall will be a colossal waste of $33,000,000,000.00 as it won't solve the drug or immigration problems it's intended to. People and drugs arrive by plane & boat. A wall can be defeated by a ladder or a tunnel. This is one of the biggest wastes of money, time, energy, and resources ever proposed by any government in the history of the world. The only reason I can see for Donald to push for it is to save face with his base & deliver on this campaign promise in hopes that there are enough racists in America to keep him in power. Otherwise I see very little value in spending $33,000,000,000.00 on this project that's bound to accomplish little, if anything, else.

I don't think Trump worries about "fallout". He says and does what he wants.

I think Trump will win politically if he ends NAFTA.

The labor unions want to end NAFTA.

The Bernie Sanders crowd wants to end NAFTA.

I don't think many Americans care if Mexico gets border taxed to pay for the wall.


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goldfish21
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19 Jan 2018, 10:00 pm

As a Canadian, I'd be Okay with watching America isolate itself from the rest of the continent in terms of trade, even if it means Canadian businesses fold and people return to subsistence farming on small plots of land to make ends meet. I'd way rather see my neighbour out harvesting potatoes to feed their kids than head off to work for some corporate machine that sells crap to the USA that only serves to line the pockets of international conglomerates & shareholders while working class people would be happier & healthier growing their own potatoes instead.

It won't likely come to that. But I'd be okay with it if it did. There are more ways than one to meet the needs of people in an economic system. We're not obligated to continue trading high value added manufactured & processed goods with one another forever. We can in fact go back to subsistence farming & survive just fine until we determine whatever next system we use to provide for our wants and needs if that's what it takes. Trump acts like our only option is to be slaves to American corporations & work for ever less money to enrich his friends. f**k that, I'd sooner till the earth & plant potatoes.


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