Basic face to face etiquette lacking in a lot of NTs

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HistoryGal
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11 Jan 2018, 5:58 pm

A person doing the dominance thing only gets to do that once with me....after that, we are done.



Aristophanes
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11 Jan 2018, 6:21 pm

Esmerelda Weatherwax wrote:
Upfront I'll say this will be a TL;DR, probably.

I think rudeness is a dominance thing. Look at your garden variety troll - it's not about the issue, whatever that may be; it's about being a jerk, in public, damaging someone and getting away with it. And the ramping up of hostilities if the target responds is just a continued effort to exert power over that target. The gang-type escalation, threats etc. is more of the same.

This might look like a recent development but I don't think it is. There have always been "outgroups" who could safely be treated with discourtesy in any particular culture - women, minorities, foreigners, the poor, the disabled - lately, though, the stain has spread, the discourtesy is no longer confined to the traditional targets, those targets are more visible, and they're belatedly being recognized as human and deserving of respect, and people are noticing.

At this point in my life, I automatically assume that a certain type of rudeness (calculated, defiant, sadistic, repeated and predictable) means the person is fundamentally a jerk, and a potentially dangerous one.

Well stated and I concur.



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11 Jan 2018, 10:19 pm

nurseangela wrote:
Maybe some of these people need to be cut some slack and given a chance to be educated.


I’m going to have to disagree with you in my case, kids did it because they were bullies, there is no reason to ask anyone why they are the way they are, even as a kid I was smart enough to know it wasn’t appropriate to say things like “Why are you fat?” etc, and teachers had no right to say something like that to a small child whether they know about aspergers or not.

It’s alarming how many people who know you have it refuse to educate themselves, as well. Thinking someone is odd is a bit different to blatantly attacking a kid in front of a classroom. Especially when that person is in a position of power and should know better (A teacher).



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11 Jan 2018, 11:45 pm

nurseangela wrote:
I get tired of the "Hi, how are you?" crap. Like they really care. I don't have time for that. I'm also usually in my head thinking about what I'm going to be doing next and not really paying attention to anyone else. Sounds like what some Aspies have said.


I always care when I ask how someone is doing. It actually seems to cheer a lot of people up, particularly people who work jobs where those they come into contact with typically don't bother to ask...for example, bus drivers.



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12 Jan 2018, 12:12 am

I tend to be one of the people who sometimes checks their phone in social interactions, not because I get bored or anything but usually because I get uncomfortable or anxious with the interaction or person and my phone gives a sense of safety to me. I’m trying to get better at it though, when I get anxious I try to keep a stress/memory foam ball around to squeeze, and that usually works.
It seems to be more of a generational thing from what I can see though. Growing up around technology can create a dependence on it. :0



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12 Jan 2018, 12:24 am

Chronos wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
I get tired of the "Hi, how are you?" crap. Like they really care. I don't have time for that. I'm also usually in my head thinking about what I'm going to be doing next and not really paying attention to anyone else. Sounds like what some Aspies have said.


I always care when I ask how someone is doing. It actually seems to cheer a lot of people up, particularly people who work jobs where those they come into contact with typically don't bother to ask...for example, bus drivers.


I always ask shop workers how their day is. Nice change from rude customers. They always smile when asked.



Benjamin the Donkey
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12 Jan 2018, 5:03 am

It's true, old-fashioned etiquette made things easier for people like us by giving explicit, clear rules. Without it, there's too much guesswork. Even when I was young I often got labeled as overly formal and polite, but I didn't have much of a choice.


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12 Jan 2018, 3:24 pm

Also I hate it when you're talking in a group of people and someone keeps playing something loud on their phone. It's OK if it's relavent to the conversation, but if it's not, I find it annoying. If I want to play on my phone when in a room with other people, I put headphones on, or just turn the sound down so that it doesn't disrupt everyone else. I do respect that others might not be interested in videos on my phone at that particular time, especially if they are talking. My aunt's husband is the worst for this. He has an obsession with birds, and when we're all in a room talking, he'll keep showing everybody pictures or videos of birds on his phone, when the conversation has nothing to do with birds. Sounds rather Aspie-like, but I don't know, because the only Aspie thing he does is has an intense special interest and thinks everybody else is just as obsessed as he is.


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hale_bopp
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13 Jan 2018, 10:16 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Also I hate it when you're talking in a group of people and someone keeps playing something loud on their phone. It's OK if it's relavent to the conversation, but if it's not, I find it annoying. If I want to play on my phone when in a room with other people, I put headphones on, or just turn the sound down so that it doesn't disrupt everyone else. I do respect that others might not be interested in videos on my phone at that particular time, especially if they are talking. My aunt's husband is the worst for this. He has an obsession with birds, and when we're all in a room talking, he'll keep showing everybody pictures or videos of birds on his phone, when the conversation has nothing to do with birds. Sounds rather Aspie-like, but I don't know, because the only Aspie thing he does is has an intense special interest and thinks everybody else is just as obsessed as he is.


That's due to a lack of self awareness.

I am the same, I don't think highly of people who are constantly looking at their phones when socialising with people. It's quite rude, I don't go near my phone if someone is nice enough to ask me out for drinks, unless I want to show them something. I have never understood people glued to their phones, probably because I have an array of other interests like reading, artwork, sewing, sculpture, design etc which I would rather be engaging in in my spare time. I had a good life before technology, I think technology has ruined a lot of the aspects of life which humans have not yet evolved to cope with yet. Fortunately I go back to work tomorrow so will be on the internet even less, which I think will be very good for me.

I find content available on social media as quite uninteresting compared to talking to people around me, but clearly others don't feel the same.



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14 Jan 2018, 12:46 am

Trogluddite wrote:
I actually get accused of being too polite or too formal regularly. I was brought up with quite an old-fashioned (say WWII era), typically British sense of what my Grandparent's called "minding my P's and Q's". I always say please and thankyou to shop staff and bus drivers, never push into queues, always look first to make sure I'm not stepping into someone's path etc.

I think that old-style manners simplify things as an Aspie - the rules don't depend on context, you just show good manners to everyone by default. There seem to be autistic traits going back a couple of generations in my family, so maybe that ease of applying the rules contributes to it persisting in my family more than most other people around me.

It seems that as I've gotten older, these rules have become much more conditional, making it much harder to determine when they are deemed appropriate, hence I appear overly formal because I would far rather be too polite than not polite enough. I get really quite irate at people who treat shop staff, bus drivers etc. as if they are not there, or step out in front of people without looking - those things seem like they should just be common courtesy to me. It varies from place to place though, when I moved to Yorkshire, I quickly noticed that thanking bus drivers was far more common than when I lived further south, and it's still common here to see parents prompting their young children to do it.


This entire post is great and very astute - that manners are becoming more conditional which makes it tougher for AS ppl - stick to your old ways please! Those were more helpful and beneficial