Trump in 'excellent health,' White House doctor says.

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Lintar
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15 Jan 2018, 9:25 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Personally, I don't believe he's in "excellent health."


goldfish21 wrote:
And I certainly do not believe he's mentally fit & do believe the mental competency test was avoided because the doctor(s) likely believe the same and were pressured by Trump, or themselves and their rational self interest, not to go there. I HOPE that the worst thing that happens because of Trump's failing mental health is that he gets removed from office under the 25th amendment and that the world does not incur loss of human life/nuclear holocaust because of it.


So, you're a doctor then. I didn't know. What makes YOU qualified to speak about things like this? Would you have said any of what you do in your post about Presidents Obama or Clinton?

Well, I happen to believe (even though, like yourself, I am not a psychiatrist) that President Trump is in perfect health mentally. Physically too. I don't know this for sure, and I am by no means qualified to assess him like this, but... well, that's what I believe, so it must be true.



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15 Jan 2018, 9:41 pm

SH90 wrote:
Liberals are the most hateful group I ever met...

Some of the posts we've had on WP alone would convince anyone on the fence...


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auntblabby
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15 Jan 2018, 9:47 pm

why is it that evil is generally so vigorous?



goldfish21
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16 Jan 2018, 4:28 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
It is quite difficult legally to force someone to have a psych exam. Autistics especially should not want that to change.


We're not talking about psych exams for all. We're talking about making sure that the POTUS is mentally fit to carry out his duties - which if they're not (regardless of whether it's 45 or some past/future POTUS) then they shouldn't be in the oval office. There could be grave consequences otherwise.


Undoing an election based on the judgement of psychologists/psychiatrists, Wow. Who would appoint these people to have such an awesome responsibility? We have had multiple chances not to have this happen. There are procedures that involve elected officials for getting rid of him.

Everything can’t be fixed, sometimes mistakes are made whose consequences are horrific and irreversible.


I never said undoing an election. I meant an assessment of his present state of mental health & if he's unfit he should be removed from office under the 25th Amendment for the good of the USA, it's citizens, and everyone else on the planet that likes living in a non-nuclear wasteland.


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goldfish21
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16 Jan 2018, 4:34 am

Lintar wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Personally, I don't believe he's in "excellent health."


goldfish21 wrote:
And I certainly do not believe he's mentally fit & do believe the mental competency test was avoided because the doctor(s) likely believe the same and were pressured by Trump, or themselves and their rational self interest, not to go there. I HOPE that the worst thing that happens because of Trump's failing mental health is that he gets removed from office under the 25th amendment and that the world does not incur loss of human life/nuclear holocaust because of it.


So, you're a doctor then. I didn't know. What makes YOU qualified to speak about things like this? Would you have said any of what you do in your post about Presidents Obama or Clinton?

Well, I happen to believe (even though, like yourself, I am not a psychiatrist) that President Trump is in perfect health mentally. Physically too. I don't know this for sure, and I am by no means qualified to assess him like this, but... well, that's what I believe, so it must be true.


I am not a doctor. In fact, I have stated umpteen times on these forums that I am not a medical doctor & that posts are my personal opinions, not medical opinions nor medical advice.

I'm just as qualified as anyone to have an opinion on current events. It's my non medical opinion that Trump is nucking futs & would likely faily a mental health screening/competency test. IMO, if there's any question of any POTUS' mental health they should be examined & either cleared for service or removed from office.

No, I wouldn't have said that about either Obama or Clinton or GWB because they all appeared to be mentally balanced. Trump, on the other hand, does not. There's a reason many mental health professionals are calling for him to undergo examinations/testing. He's impulsive & unstable, narcissistic, a compulsive liar, has a terrible temper, and shows signs of memory loss and so on. There are many reasonable indicators that suggest he should, at the very least, be examined by an expert.

On what do you base your belief that he is in perfect mental health?


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SocOfAutism
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16 Jan 2018, 11:38 am

So I find it interesting and encouraging that avoiding smoking, drinking, drugs, and coffee (coffee is my own vice) for 71 years can counteract the effects of a steady diet of red meat, coca-cola, KFC, and almost no exercise.



ASPartOfMe
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16 Jan 2018, 12:42 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
It is quite difficult legally to force someone to have a psych exam. Autistics especially should not want that to change.


We're not talking about psych exams for all. We're talking about making sure that the POTUS is mentally fit to carry out his duties - which if they're not (regardless of whether it's 45 or some past/future POTUS) then they shouldn't be in the oval office. There could be grave consequences otherwise.


Undoing an election based on the judgement of psychologists/psychiatrists, Wow. Who would appoint these people to have such an awesome responsibility? We have had multiple chances not to have this happen. There are procedures that involve elected officials for getting rid of him.

Everything can’t be fixed, sometimes mistakes are made whose consequences are horrific and irreversible.


I never said undoing an election. I meant an assessment of his present state of mental health & if he's unfit he should be removed from office under the 25th Amendment for the good of the USA, it's citizens, and everyone else on the planet that likes living in a non-nuclear wasteland.


What else could you call unelected people deciding to remove a person that was elected but undoing an election? At least with the 25th amendment you have Pence and maybe congress involved and with impeachment congress does it. Even though completely legal the 25th amendment is a dicey procedure because you have Pence involved in making a decision that could make him President.

Misdiagnosing Trump: Doc-to-Doc with Allen Frances, MD
Allen Frances, MD, is professor emeritus of psychiatry at Duke University and the creator of the diagnostic criteria for narcissistic personality disorder. That condition has been in the news frequently, as many have suggested that President Trump may be so afflicted. In his new book, Twilight of American Sanity, Frances suggests it's not Trump who is crazy. It is us.
Quote:
[b]Perry Wilson, MD: In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association came forward with what would be called the "Goldwater Rule," which stated that it would be unethical for psychiatrists to attempt to diagnose public figures from afar. Nevertheless, the Trump presidency has prompted a resurgence of psychiatric diagnosis from both professionals and laypeople. Dr. Allen Frances is the former Chair of Psychiatry at the Duke University School of Medicine. He's also the author of Twilight of American Sanity: A Psychiatrist Analyzes the Age of Trump. Dr. Frances, thank you for joining me on Doc-to-Doc.

Allen Frances, MD: My pleasure.

Wilson: You authored the DSM criteria for narcissistic personality disorder. This is something that many people have attributed to President Trump. You are not one of them. Do you stand by the assertion that he does not have this disorder?

Frances: Well, Trump is absolutely a world-class narcissist. He has every criteria met except for two. In addition to having the features of being grandiose, unempathic, self-involved, selfish, all the things that go into being Trump, you have to have distress or impairment, significant distress or impairment.

Trump is a man who causes immense distress in others, but doesn't seem to experience it very much himself. Although he's created tremendous impairment for our country and for his business colleagues, he, himself, has been very well rewarded in politics and also in business for being a narcissist. I think that it's reckless for people to attribute the damage he's causing to mental illness. He's much more bad than mad.

Wilson: Almost every type of mental illness is characterized by this fact: It affects your life in a negative way. I think you're making the argument that if you're the president, you have done pretty well for yourself -- which most of us would agree with -- but it reminds me of Nixon's famous quote when he said, "If the president does it, it's not illegal." Can the president have a mental illness or by the virtue of his success, does that take mental illness off the table?

Frances: We've had two amazing leaders the last century ... who had real severe mental illness. Abraham Lincoln and Winston Churchill both suffered from classic clinical depression that no one would doubt. You can be a terrific leader and have a very severe mental illness, at least intermittently, in part of your life. But I think the issue with Trump is that he's just an incompetent, blustering, deceitful conman. No one has ever been less suited for the presidency of the United States, and we shouldn't confuse his bad behavior with mental illness.
To lump Trump with the mentally ill is a tremendous insult to them. It stigmatizes them. Most people who are mentally ill are well meaning and well behaved, and really fine people. Trump is none of those. So that when we confuse mental illness with bad behavior, we, first of all, insult the mentally ill, and secondly, we underestimate just how evil Trump is and how dangerous.

Wilson: What is it about him that prompts people to even speculate as opposed to just saying, "Oh, well, this guy might not be an effective leader?"

Frances: Well, first of all, there was a lot of concern about Richard Nixon along the lines of him being quite paranoid. Appropriate concern. I think the thing about Trump is that he's completely irresponsible, quite ignorant, impulsive, insulting, corrupt, self-serving, that he'll say and do anything at the whim of the moment. But I think we confuse the behaviors of a trickster and a conman with real mental illness. I think it makes us ineffective in dealing with him. The taming of Trump will be a political taming. It won't be psychiatric name calling. Trump will not be removed from office under the 25th amendment because he's unfit psychiatrically. That would require Pence and the majority of the cabinet voting him unable to continue in office. That will never happen. He may well be impeached, but he won't be removed from office on psychiatric grounds.
Meanwhile, we're missing the point. Congress has to tame Trump. Congress has to make sure that no one man, especially someone so unstable and so selfish as Trump, can press the nuclear button or start war with Korea. Congress has to take over the right to declare war, which presidents have abused frequently in the last 50 years. I think it's a political problem. The public is responsible. The public has to demonstrate against the reductions in medical coverage, against Trump's terribly unfair tax proposals.
The government of the United States will be turning over in 2018. The public has a responsibility to make sure that more responsible people are in charge. So the taming of Trump, the defensive democracy, the return to sane national policies, that's a political problem. Impotent, psychiatric name calling misuses psychiatric diagnosis insults patients and Trump isn't bothered by it. If he were bothered by it, he'd be tweeting about the psychiatrists. He couldn't care less.

Wilson: Let me play devil's advocate here. Clearly, you're not a fan of the president. You want congress to take action against him. Wouldn't a consensus from psychiatrists saying, "Something isn't right here," at the very least provide them more political cover for doing what you believe needs to be done than just saying, "Oh, well, this is a guy who makes some bad decisions?" Wouldn't that help them if a prominent psychiatrist came and said, "I have concerns about this guy's rationality?"

Frances: Well, I think that there's nothing about Trump that isn't completely transparent. He may well be the most transparent person who ever lived. His behavior, his outrageous taking advantage of other people, his conspiracy theories, all of these go back 45 years. It's not as if he's a different person now than when he was in his 20s. He's certainly no different now than when he was running for office.

The American public bought this and now they must have buyer's remorse. Attributing this to mental illness makes it sound like Trump is a one off and that it's all his problem. I think that's a mistake. I think that Trump is a mirror on our soul and this is a shock treatment kind of moment where we should be wondering about ourselves. What's wrong with us that we could possibly put the future of mankind, the future of our children and our grandchildren in someone this reckless? So, I think this is an important opportunity for society to take stock of ourselves, not to just make the false claim that it's one man's mental illness.


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goldfish21
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16 Jan 2018, 2:11 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
all unelected people deciding to remove a person that was elected but undoing an election?


Executing the 25th Amendment of the US Constitution.
Or Impeachment.
etc.

None of which is "undoing an election."


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cyberdad
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16 Jan 2018, 4:14 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
He doesn't look very healthy, perhaps he need a napkin made of fried chicken to wipe is face, but then even that may not get rid of the orange.


Perfect example of why I don't take most of what liberals say against Trump seriously.


Do you have a better idea about how Trump can get the orange off his face?

That's self inflicted



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16 Jan 2018, 4:17 pm

EzraS wrote:
Anyways I thought liberals were supposed to be against body shaming.

More irony
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/09/27/do ... a-fat-pig/
https://www.vox.com/identities/2016/9/2 ... at-shaming

What do they say about people who live in glass houses? oh wait! this is Donald Trump...he spends too much time staring at his hair piece that he forgets he too has a fat arse



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16 Jan 2018, 4:19 pm

SH90 wrote:
Liberals are the most hateful group I ever met...

well we hate...hate

anyway peace dude! (in a lefty hippie groovy kind of fashion)



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16 Jan 2018, 4:49 pm

I do think it's funny that the so-called doctor's note the White House put out shows it's signed by "Dr. Ronnie Jackson". The White House physician spells his first name "Ronny".


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16 Jan 2018, 5:28 pm

cyberdad wrote:
SH90 wrote:
Liberals are the most hateful group I ever met...

well we hate...hate.


Except for your own party approved hate...


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16 Jan 2018, 5:35 pm

There's something fundamentally wrong with anyone who thinks that White supremacists and neo-Nazis are "very fine people."



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16 Jan 2018, 5:56 pm

Raptor wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
SH90 wrote:
Liberals are the most hateful group I ever met...

well we hate...hate.


Except for your own party approved hate...

my party?