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Pathological demand avoidance?

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SaveFerris
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31 Jan 2018, 10:17 am

elsapelsa wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
^ I have not been Dx with PDA but reading a comment like this makes me feel cross and I don't know why ( it's not personal towards to the poster ) , it's not like it's my theory - what is wrong with me :roll:


^^ me too, and it is not towards the poster, but there is a lot of ignorance of pda, and that ignorance is reminiscent of overall ignorance towards autism and neurodiversity in general.... Sorry want to spell it out further than I am not suggesting anyone here is ignorant - it is just until you have seen PDA on a day to day basis and the hours and hours of crippling demand avoidance that you can't get around no matter how you try... It feels quite real!



My GF has the same view as you , unless you live with someone with PDA you don't really get a feel for it. My GF described my issues to my doctors a long time ago before she knew anything about autism & comorbids , her description of me fits PDA to a T , she says I am the master of avoidance even for things I want to do.
I'm not sure if this is PDA related but if my GF goes away , I get the 'while the cat's away' feeling and plan to do lots of things but basically sit on the settee wondering why I cant get myself to do the things I want :roll:


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elsapelsa
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31 Jan 2018, 10:51 am

SaveFerris, you are so right that it is often even harder for things my daughter actually really WANTS to do. The day to day demands of school life are hard by themselves but because she still likes structure and routines on many levels they are still functional. However, during a bad patch being on holiday and getting ready for the pool took 2+ hrs (despite being absolutely desperate to be in the water already!).

In our case there is a direct correlation between anxiety and demand avoidance, in times where she feels less stressed and anxious it can nearly not be there and in times of high anxiety it is crippling. It is very dynamic.

She have a LOT of coping strategies and the context will require wholly different thinking to get around what my daughter refers to as "the stopper" inside her head. Sometimes she will tolerate my intervention and help and other times it is just a question of waiting it out. Sometimes she will succeed by breaking it down into tiny little tasks and get there in the end. The problem is that the more she is rushed the more the anxiety goes up and the more it just comes to a full halt.

I have high hopes that now we have realised she is autistic and with the right support and acceptance of that in place the demand avoidance will gradually go down. I am already seeing that. More typical aspie traits - loads more stimming and absorption into special interests and less demand avoidance.


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SaveFerris
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31 Jan 2018, 12:03 pm

elsapelsa wrote:
SaveFerris, you are so right that it is often even harder for things my daughter actually really WANTS to do. The day to day demands of school life are hard by themselves but because she still likes structure and routines on many levels they are still functional. However, during a bad patch being on holiday and getting ready for the pool took 2+ hrs (despite being absolutely desperate to be in the water already!).

In our case there is a direct correlation between anxiety and demand avoidance, in times where she feels less stressed and anxious it can nearly not be there and in times of high anxiety it is crippling. It is very dynamic.

She have a LOT of coping strategies and the context will require wholly different thinking to get around what my daughter refers to as "the stopper" inside her head. Sometimes she will tolerate my intervention and help and other times it is just a question of waiting it out. Sometimes she will succeed by breaking it down into tiny little tasks and get there in the end. The problem is that the more she is rushed the more the anxiety goes up and the more it just comes to a full halt.

I have high hopes that now we have realised she is autistic and with the right support and acceptance of that in place the demand avoidance will gradually go down. I am already seeing that. More typical aspie traits - loads more stimming and absorption into special interests and less demand avoidance.


As I said I have not been Dx with PDA just ASD but I haven't had my report yet so bear this in mind with regards to advice.
I hope you get all the help available to you , early detection should make a vast difference IMO.
Everyone is different but I would try and find out if there is a correlation between autistic burnout ( I've had a few but they could be nervous breakdowns for me but the regression would suggest otherwise ) and PDA - these have been the darkest times for me. I don't think I knew my limits so pushed through things when I should of stopped. It seems like adult responsibilities were the catalyst for me , moving out of home , trying to hold down a job , bringing up a child etc ( big demands on anyone ).

There's a couple of fascinating videos on youtube of people with PDA.


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elsapelsa
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31 Jan 2018, 12:26 pm

We are still 10 days away from diagnosis! So take anything I say with that in mind too!

I totally agree with the autistic burnout. It fits perfectly and is something I have thought before, she had her first huge crash at just past 5 and it was accompanied with extreme demand avoidance. We managed to get through that and as things settled down again and school and gp thought it was "nothing" (and my mention of autism at this point was laughed at and ridiculed) we kind of just muddled on but then she crashed again at 8. This time it was so much more severe. And now as I have found out more about autism and rebuilt our home environment totally and insisted on certain accommodations at school the pda is settling again but instead we are seeing a fairly confident happy girl displaying loads of autistic traits.


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SaveFerris
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31 Jan 2018, 12:47 pm

elsapelsa wrote:
but instead we are seeing a fairly confident happy girl


Good news :D


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elsapelsa
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31 Jan 2018, 1:22 pm

SaveFerris wrote:
elsapelsa wrote:
but instead we are seeing a fairly confident happy girl


Good news :D


Thanks. I have very high hope for her. Last week she wrote a comic about a boy who had an unusual enermy - a door. All he wanted was to get into the 'palace of beauty' but he couldn't get through the door. There was a nerve in his brain that made getting through the door impossible. It is absolutely hilariously drawn and the character is so funny. He just keeps trying and trying and can't do it. On the other side of the door is a lovely girl and he wants so badly to make it though. He hammers at it, bangs on it, crashes into it but it remains shut. Then on the last page there he is by the door again, deflated and about to give up and then he sees a knob... click.... and he is though.... and he is like "come on world, why didn't you tell me about the doorknob?"

I know she is going to find her way!


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SaveFerris
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31 Jan 2018, 1:35 pm

elsapelsa wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
elsapelsa wrote:
but instead we are seeing a fairly confident happy girl


Good news :D


Thanks. I have very high hope for her. Last week she wrote a comic about a boy who had an unusual enermy - a door. All he wanted was to get into the 'palace of beauty' but he couldn't get through the door. There was a nerve in his brain that made getting through the door impossible. It is absolutely hilariously drawn and the character is so funny. He just keeps trying and trying and can't do it. On the other side of the door is a lovely girl and he wants so badly to make it though. He hammers at it, bangs on it, crashes into it but it remains shut. Then on the last page there he is by the door again, deflated and about to give up and then he sees a knob... click.... and he is though.... and he is like "come on world, why didn't you tell me about the doorknob?"

I know she is going to find her way!


Creative , sense of humour , irony & a caring mum , she sounds like she'll do just fine :)


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Sofisol612
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31 Jan 2018, 1:45 pm

I got 28 in both tests, which means I’m likely to have ASD and some PDA traits, but not the whole syndrome. I can relate to some of its characteristics, such as procrastinating, not acknowledging anxiety, being overloaded by school/work demands, feeling pressured by other people’s expectations, etc. However, I think in my case I’m more worried about getting approval than controlling my environment and other people. When I procrastinate and don’t do what I have to do, it’s usually because I’m afraid of failure, and not reluctant to conform to someone’s demand.


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elsapelsa
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31 Jan 2018, 3:19 pm

SaveFerris wrote:
elsapelsa wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
elsapelsa wrote:
but instead we are seeing a fairly confident happy girl


Good news :D


Thanks. I have very high hope for her. Last week she wrote a comic about a boy who had an unusual enermy - a door. All he wanted was to get into the 'palace of beauty' but he couldn't get through the door. There was a nerve in his brain that made getting through the door impossible. It is absolutely hilariously drawn and the character is so funny. He just keeps trying and trying and can't do it. On the other side of the door is a lovely girl and he wants so badly to make it though. He hammers at it, bangs on it, crashes into it but it remains shut. Then on the last page there he is by the door again, deflated and about to give up and then he sees a knob... click.... and he is though.... and he is like "come on world, why didn't you tell me about the doorknob?"

I know she is going to find her way!


Creative , sense of humour , irony & a caring mum , she sounds like she'll do just fine :)


Thank you! That's kind. Waiting for assessment is certainly a bit challenging but finding this forum has really turned our lives around.


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SaveFerris
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31 Jan 2018, 4:55 pm

elsapelsa wrote:

Thank you! That's kind. Waiting for assessment is certainly a bit challenging but finding this forum has really turned our lives around.


This site is a veritable feast of information that you won't find anywhere else , it has a good community that is only too happy to share when they can , it was a real eye opener when I joined , it was ridiculous how little self awareness I had and I'm still learning about myself.


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31 Jan 2018, 6:38 pm

SaveFerris wrote:
elsapelsa wrote:

Thank you! That's kind. Waiting for assessment is certainly a bit challenging but finding this forum has really turned our lives around.


This site is a veritable feast of information that you won't find anywhere else , it has a good community that is only too happy to share when they can , it was a real eye opener when I joined , it was ridiculous how little self awareness I had and I'm still learning about myself.

^^^^
This


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01 Feb 2018, 1:12 am

PDA - 40
Autism PDA - 37

I agree with Trog's take on it, as well.


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01 Feb 2018, 9:35 am

PDA=28

PDA autism=28

Wow even numbers.


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TheAvenger161173
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01 Feb 2018, 1:48 pm

League_Girl wrote:
PDA=28

PDA autism=28

Wow even numbers.

Why is one PDA and the other PDA Autism and not just Autism?



SaveFerris
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01 Feb 2018, 3:51 pm

TheAvenger161173 wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
PDA=28

PDA autism=28

Wow even numbers.

Why is one PDA and the other PDA Autism and not just Autism?


I think there are certain specific traits that are associated with PDA ( I think that's how it's classified ) , you may have missed the link on the first post https://dragonriko.wordpress.com/pda-test-for-adults/ it explains better than I could


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01 Feb 2018, 5:41 pm

TheAvenger161173 wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
PDA=28

PDA autism=28

Wow even numbers.

Why is one PDA and the other PDA Autism and not just Autism?



Probably because PDA looks different than autism does. I have seen the shows on youtube that have kids with it and none of them look like they have autism nor act like it. Instead they come off as having anxiety and behavior and being rude and disrespectful and having tantrums when they don't get their way or don't want to do something. I don't do that.


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