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Pepe
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19 Feb 2018, 5:55 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
Descartes said "I think, therefore I am"

Some extroverts act like, "I talk, therefore I am"


Yes, I am aware of that. It talks about Descartes and Spinoza in the first article I linked in my OP. It's where the title of this thread came from.

Perhaps it might be worth examining why so many people here view feelings and a desire to socialize with others with contempt. Being anti-social is fine, but to be that way and then complain that other people don't want to be around you and won't accept you as you are seems infinitely foolish. This is not a forum for anti-social personality disorder, it's a forum for people with autism, and many autistic people have emotions and desire human connection and interaction.


But ultimately, it is a person's choice how they live their life...
Freedom of thought and all that pesky stuff... :wink:


_________________
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Hate me for who I am...Not for who you think I am..."
You have been weighed...you have been measured...and you have been found wanking...:P
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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19 Feb 2018, 6:04 pm

Pepe wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
Descartes said "I think, therefore I am"

Some extroverts act like, "I talk, therefore I am"


Yes, I am aware of that. It talks about Descartes and Spinoza in the first article I linked in my OP. It's where the title of this thread came from.

Perhaps it might be worth examining why so many people here view feelings and a desire to socialize with others with contempt. Being anti-social is fine, but to be that way and then complain that other people don't want to be around you and won't accept you as you are seems infinitely foolish. This is not a forum for anti-social personality disorder, it's a forum for people with autism, and many autistic people have emotions and desire human connection and interaction.


But ultimately, it is a person's choice how they live their life...
Freedom of thought and all that pesky stuff... :wink:


Am I advocating removing choice from anyone? Is that what my thread is about, or is what you're saying here what they call a "straw man"?

People come to this forum because they have autism, which means many of them--including myself--have social challenges. One of the things I struggled with a great deal when I was younger was understanding my own feelings and how to express them effectively, and because of that my social struggles were harder than they had to be. Gaining some emotional intelligence has lessened my social struggles to some extent because I learned how to apply cognitive empathy to social situations. I would never have learned that skill if I wasn't taught to value my own feelings and what they could teach me about human nature. I thought I might pass on some of that which has helped me. Like I said in my OP, some food for thought (for those willing to open their minds a little.)

You don't have to value emotions if you don't want to, but considering we live in a world full of other people who also have feelings, having some basic understanding of and appreciation for emotions seems prudent to me.



Pepe
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19 Feb 2018, 9:14 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Am I advocating removing choice from anyone? Is that what my thread is about, or is what you're saying here what they call a "straw man"?


Quote:
many autistic people have emotions and desire human connection and interaction.

And some don't desire greater human interaction...agreed...<shrug>

Moving on...
I think it reasonable to say you are reaching out to:
-Those who struggle with understanding their own emotional mechanism...
-Those who are still confused by the complexities of life...

Regarding the struggle to establish an emotional understanding of oneself and to maintain an emotional equilibrium:
Any rationalist "worth his salt" would agree that discovering oneself in one's entirety (within what is humanly possible) is quintessential in working towards self-actualisation...
"To thine own self be true" in this context means one must be aware of the influences of such things as:
-Unconscious bias...
-Confirmation bias...
-The influences of the semi-conscious and unconscious mechanism...
-The influences of childhood indoctrination...
-The influences of cultural indoctrination...
-The influences of the evolutionary process...
-How the production of chemicals through emotional responses affect the individual...
-How emotions can inspire creativity...
-How emotions can affect a person's objectivity...
-How emotions can affect good (rational) judgements/decisions...

What you are describing in your initial post is meant for "the beginner" I believe, in which I have no problem...
But your philosophy seemingly suggests that it is a "be all and end all"...
Please correct me if I am wrong...

What I am saying is, when one is on their emotional and intellectual "feet", one is in a position to diverge into the customisation of one's personal life direction...
One is in a position to determine, for oneself, the hierarchy of importance one places on emotions, reasoning, interpersonal connectivity...

Based on reading your posts, I have come to the conclusion you don't have a proper understanding of what an "emotionalist " is:
"
Quote:
Definition of emotionalist. 1 : one who bases a theory or policy on an emotional conviction. 2 : one prone to emotionalism.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=emot ... vwB-2jl8AJ

Quote:
Definition of emotionalism
1 : a tendency to regard things emotionally
2 : undue indulgence in or display of emotion

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/emotionalism

Mature rationalists don't suppress emotions...
They are aware of their emotions and discipline themselves against *irrational* emotionalism...
Quote:
rationalist
noun
1.
a person who bases their opinions and actions on reason and knowledge rather than on religious belief or emotional response.

https://www.google.com.au/search?client ... tTr0izAHIo

If you are saying your philosophy is a: "be all and end all"...
Then, Houston, we do indeed have a problem... :mrgreen:

I thank you...
<exit stage left>

P.S.

Down with emotionalist! <huff and puff>
They don't deserve to breathe the same air as us rationalist!
Bunch of arschlochs!! !
An emotionalist makes a good doorstop, and that's all!! ! <snarling and lathering> :mrgreen:


_________________
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Hate me for who I am...Not for who you think I am..."
You have been weighed...you have been measured...and you have been found wanking...:P
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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19 Feb 2018, 9:27 pm

"But your philosophy seemingly suggests that it is a "be all and end all"..."

I really don't understand why you came to this conclusion, or what you even mean by it.

I have to say that despite your use of a lot of smileys and winkey smile faces, I don't quite believe that you're genuinely trying to be affable. They strike me as insincere. Maybe it's just your textual style making it come across that way, but I feel like I'm maybe being mocked. It's really hard to interpret tone sometimes through text, and I'm struggling to make sense of your tone.

If I'm incorrect then I apologize, but I don't really know how to respond to your posts because of this problem with reading the tone that I'm having.



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23 Feb 2018, 8:51 am

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Marknis wrote:
I, unfortunately, was born into a culture that regards anything that isn't being loud and aggressive as being a "whiny baby" or "p****". I was never encouraged to go past certain lines because it was either "against God" or "Dude, reading is gay!" or something else anti-intellectual. Instead of respecting or allowing me to explore my feelings, I was either told that the "devil" was responsible for making me feel sad or that I needed to "suck it up".
These are horrible things to tell people on the spectrum because it's tamping down on abstract thought and disregarding our feelings.
A large part of the depression I suffer from is because I was constantly being told "Don't do this, don't do that!" and my brain feels fixed.


I think part of the problem for many guys on the spectrum is the awful gendered way we raise children, that we don't teach boys about emotional intelligence the same way we do with girls. It's not fair and it leaves autistic men at a distinct disadvantage socially.



That’s not just autistic men problem, but all men in humanity problem at epidemic scale - I personally knew no woman in relationship who didn’t complain at times of the lack of emtional intelligence in their male partners.



Pepe
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23 Feb 2018, 6:41 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:


I have to say that despite your use of a lot of smileys and winkey smile faces, I don't quite believe that you're genuinely trying to be affable. They strike me as insincere. Maybe it's just your textual style making it come across that way, but I feel like I'm maybe being mocked. It's really hard to interpret tone sometimes through text, and I'm struggling to make sense of your tone.

If I'm incorrect then I apologize, but I don't really know how to respond to your posts because of this problem with reading the tone that I'm having.


:mrgreen: Usually mean I am being humorous...I use this so there is no confusion about my emotional state...errr :scratch:
8O Usually means mock shock/horror...Very few things shock me these days...I have a low regard for the biological mechanism influencing the human animal and as such, I am not surprised at the lack of rationality that I often find, particularly in a neurotypical world...
It can also mean that I have contradicted myself (intentionally, usually to make a point)...


_________________
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Hate me for who I am...Not for who you think I am..."
You have been weighed...you have been measured...and you have been found wanking...:P
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


Pepe
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23 Feb 2018, 6:59 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:


That’s not just autistic men problem, but all men in humanity problem at epidemic scale - I personally knew no woman in relationship who didn’t complain at times of the lack of emtional intelligence in their male partners.


Also,
Autistic individuals, male and female, *tend to* have a greate intellectual acuity but *tend to* have a lesser EQ...

To a large degree, one can say those on the spectrum have an emotional disability...
But this is only if you believe in the premise that NT neurology is the be all and end all...
It is well established that those who are neurotypical have a host of serious social and rational deficits...

I very much doubt that, if those on the spectrum had of dominated society throughout history, we would have seen the apocalyptic wars and social abuse/injustices that neurotypical thinking was the cause of...

Apparently, man's inhumanity to man is a stronger force than a more rational approach to life, the universe and everything...
Could someone explain why the "grand plan" involves this abomination?


_________________
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Hate me for who I am...Not for who you think I am..."
You have been weighed...you have been measured...and you have been found wanking...:P
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


aghogday
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24 Feb 2018, 12:09 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGK84Poeynk

A 'little' "Symphony of Science" as accompaniment here where
replace the Word Cosmos and Nature with that other
3 letter word and the Zealous Nature of those
who want to spread a word and more
about the Interconnectedness of
all and how we humans
reflect the very
Nature
of the entire Cosmos does come;
where some Scientists would love
to Grab Folks on the Street and share
the Nature of all where we are made of Star Stuff whole;
Additionally, where the "Imagination of Nature", is much
greater than what we receive of it and the Beauty of a thing
is not the Material Reductionism of what things are but how they
are put together in synergy for a much greater sum than the parts;
Well, considering that we are the Universe walking upright and we can co-create
our realities with all that is and use Techniques of Meditation to both Master a Regulation of Emotions
now and Integrate Senses; including Meditative Movement and other "Zen Arts" that include a Stream of
Flow in Consciousness of Writing that Brings greater focus of mind with zero illusory fears disinhibiting
the pathways of mind in greater uses for what our human potential is now in raising both mindful and
body awareness; it is true some folks use more of the other 'continent of mind/body' than others do now depending
on relative free will and if one is motivated to gain a higher state of mindful and body full awareness as it's worth
noting that our emotions flow through our body associated with our senses as some experience multi-colored
emotions and others experience a rather 50 shades of Grey and the such as that; gotta love Human Diversity
in the technicolor and the gray scale too. For me, at least, I've become somewhat of a Master of my Emotions/
Senses through Free Writing in Connecting Language with Emotion and using Music with Free Verse Dance for
a flow that regulates emotions and integrates senses for my Relative Free Will to be as Happy
as i like; but not too Happy as the other Emotions are important to motivation of Creativity
and Productivity too. This is an inside job; and as many professionals that i met
along the way when i lost my emotions through a job of Chronic to Acute
Stress for 11 Years to the last 2 years of Hell where stress hormones
in the overload mode for those 2 years literally broke my bodily
systems down from head to toe. None of those professionals
really had a clue to bring them back; True, 'they' do not teach
us in school or work for how to deal with this and
particularly true and unusually tortuous
in a slow burn of misery loves company
too; for where i grew up boys
were not allowed
to smile
or do
any kind of
'sissy' art without
a threat with verbal abuse
to be outcast and the such as that;
a lot harder to deal with when one is young
and hasn't found their own ways to generate happiness,
not dependent on someone else which really is a crux of
self-actualization in having more to give and share than need
of take to fill oneself up for what is empty within that usually is literally
a poverty of feel good emotions that include the social bonding Neurohormone
Oxytocin along with a general mix of Serotonin and Dopamine and Noradrenaline
with some soothing endorphins too; oh how the Free Style Dance without any guidelines
and instructions works and the same with a free write and music one chooses for however they
choose to feel next becomes an Orchestra playing a Symphony of Emotions were we are the
Conductor
as Director
Producer and
Actor that we master
as a self-actualizing person now
with a free pass to nirvana and bliss
in a lifelong practice of mastering just that
in balance with the Shadow parts of our being,
not afraid to come out and play either; meanwhile,
School and Work teaches us to be mostly a cog in a machine
and Malignant Patriarchy is stuck in Desert Tribal Mode to teach young
men to keep their empathy and sympathy and compassion as well as overall
emotional contagion in check to protect the rest of a Tribe that doesn't count as much
these days unless one is in the Military as we don't usually have wars on our soils; however,
currently, 'we' are living a little bit too much by the assault rifle as folks are dropping dead with
that activity getting out of balance, too; Anyway, I do believe the Shadow Modes of existence that
include something like a free style of martial arts to go along with something that looks like Tai-Chi
to Ballet are equally important for males and or females alike; for it's true in our evolutionary design, too,
we are evolved to protect ourselves from Predator for Escape and Capture Prey too, invisibly, in Balance
quiet to sneak
up to or sneak out
of whatever situation
comes next. There is no one
recipe but for a person as Psychology
shows; it is very rare for a Human to lose their
emotions except for in conditions like Autism; what
i do works for me at least; and i don't mind sharing what works for me.
My life is full of colors now, so enjoyable and not only that i can find my way
out of a paper bag where new environments out in 3 Dimensional space use to
always make me anxious; true, an intelligence of proprioception that comes from
a kick around of free style martial arts does the trick and treat too. Lots of creative
ways to become
a fearless
and colorful
human being if that
is what one seeks to find to do;
otherwise, don't do it; as many folks
don't care to; or are oppressed by others
growing up through adulthood or neglected and
abused; particularly, as science shows the worst time of
life for that are ages 0 to 4. If the wiring does not come young;
it much harder to start new pathways for emotions as years go by.
But true; it's not necessarily hard wired for all across life as Epigenetics
in positive change to challenge of the Environment as well as rewiring from
head to toe through Neuroplasticity can and will bring amazing happy and resilient
change, too.
For me, at least
it started with two feet
becoming one in a successful
eventual dance and song of life as Joy.
Joy is nice when it comes and stays a while.
And as far as appeals to 'Authorities who are
respected goes'; Jordan Peterson and Jonathan
Haidt and yes, Sam Harris all agree that an all natural
meditative practice of being; either still or focused can and will
lead to an ascendent transcendent and yes, ecstatic expanding awareness
of being that is the equivalent of Naturally Healing Psychedelic trips without
the danger of course of the Illegal Nature part of that and trips that go out of control
away from an inner expanding consciousness of 'Heaven' to the other place of 'Hell' within.
The Experience that is all natural and comparable
in Meditation will free up emotions and even
bring one per words of Jordan Peterson
as a Clinical Psychologist and Social Scientist
up one standard deviation in Openness of Emotional
Life traits. In fact, well known folks in the so-called Autism
Community like John Elder Robison have undergone Trans Cranial
Magnetic Therapy to spark new connections in the Brain that are similar
to what the all Natural methods of still and moving meditationdo too where even
science shows that a 50 year old Brain from someone who has spent years in a practice
of meditation reflects the Brain Health of a 25 year old; additionally, Meditation increases
Grey matter of the brain in all areas except for the Amygdala for fear that often shuts down
Positive Emotions too, when engaged in a state of being in chronic to severe stress; in that effect
Meditation actually decreases Grey Matter in the Amygdala and specific to connectedness of Human
Emotions the Temporoparietal Junction does increase in Grey Matter Form, too; Movement Therapy
is now a recognized successful treatment in treating Autistic Children who are severely negatively
impacted without an ability to emotionally connect to other folks through reciprocal social
communication as it's true once the Neurohormone Oxytocin starts to flow
again in receptive ways the Natural drive to connect to other in emoting
way comes on board with a warm and fuzzy feeling of literally
feeling connected to other folks driving more touchy
feely ways of life; May not work for everyone
but increasingly and scientifically shown,
does work for many. And on top of that Effective
Meditation has been shown 26 Percent more effective
than opiates; 'Middle America' could use some 'Tai Chi' Before
work as the Chinese do in Corporations who understand the benefits
of increased Productivity and Creativity as well as folks getting along and
playing
the
"proverbial
drums around
a campfire dance
of together as a Wave
of Human Love less Fear now;
Great topic shared here on "I Feel,
Therefore I AM"; for as far as do feel
and sense, thinking in words can and will
get in the way of just being I AM all connected
to the Rest of Nature that some folks Name God whole too..:)


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techstepgenr8tion
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24 Feb 2018, 9:22 am

We were on the topic of emotionality and men, I think its worse than men just not being cultured or developed for emotionality or emotional intelligence. They're actively abused for it. Not only that, perhaps as a result of that abuse sometimes but possibly even due to what success in this regard looks like, women often see them as being of lower status in male hierarchy and want little to do with them. It really seems to be a 'you're damned if you do, damned if you don't' kind of situation.


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karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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24 Feb 2018, 1:01 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
We were on the topic of emotionality and men, I think its worse than men just not being cultured or developed for emotionality or emotional intelligence. They're actively abused for it. Not only that, perhaps as a result of that abuse sometimes but possibly even due to what success in this regard looks like, women often see them as being of lower status in male hierarchy and want little to do with them. It really seems to be a 'you're damned if you do, damned if you don't' kind of situation.


I would agree with that. Sexist gender roles are bad not just for women, but for men too. Just as women are expected to be more emotional (and emotionally intelligent) and nurturing men are expected to NOT be those things because that is the territory of women and femininity, and femininity (and therefore emotionality) is bad and lesser. It's all very old-fashioned and unfair and hurts so many people who don't or can't easily fit into those stereotypes of what a "man" or a "woman" is supposed to be. Women are punished also (often by other women, usually in their own families or friends) for not fitting the emotional nurturing roll we are supposed to play. I've never felt drawn to children and babies and always felt judged very negatively sometimes by men but mostly by other women for that.



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24 Feb 2018, 3:32 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv6WZvS22-E

I'm positive that folks who learn to
to be their Own Mother and Father and Sister
and Brother and Friend accomplish more than most
if it is only loving them selves as Friend they will not give up on.
It helps to put it into words and not all folks develop the art to do that.
It helps to develop a Free Style Dance and Song of life that is not deterred by other
styles of dance and to be clear that is a metaphor not specific to Dance and Song literally
as such and also a common cliche is all of this in other words of Courage and Wisdom as any
Cinda Fella or Fella Cinder will do; in other words; a strive for balance, within, for the anima and animus
both that and who Jung Suggested is an archetypal Yin and Yang experience that works for a best overall
outcome when achieved. The Heart is a Muscle that can and will be developed with Love And Grace in Balance
with the appropriate exercises one seeks and finds in life to do just that. The other Muscles of Will and Strength
is also a propensity of life that can and will be developed with the appropriate exercises one seeks and finds in life
to also do just that. In an arena of life where most all is mechanical cognition, both of those areas may go amiss.
Humans are mostly involved for a Will and Strength of Life that Moves as Grace of Love at the pinnacles of
Peace and Harmony without any regard to competition for who builds a biggest tower or stores
the most grain in a silo; for a forage that moves when the current resources are gone. Still,
Other folks stay in an Arid Desert; remarkably, with little to no water of what is required
still now most for basic subsistence. Others take great strides to move to Greener
Pastures; even crossing Bering Straits for a New World of Abundance
of Buffalo and Creeks Teeming with Fresh Fish and Warm to
Cool Air that is Moist with Green Life colored in
Flowers otherwise known and felt as
a 'New Garden of Eden' and
'a Paradise' with close
to naked Dancing and
Singing after the Forage of the Hour
is done for the Present of the Day of Now.
In short, most of humanity is out of balance as we are
not evolved to Peacefully cooperate without a ton of rules,
beyond 150 to 200 sets of Acquaintances called by recognition
of who they are, by either spoken labeled words or nonverbal language
from before. In other words, in general, Nature Deficit order within inside outside
above so below and all around is the issue as plain as spirits of heart in mind and body
flesh and body souls that have moved greater as lessor toward a desert within; i've lived
many years in that place and now i reside in the other place full of Flowered Gardens that i can/will
actually feel and sense over smell and sight alone all together again as one Happy of Family as Nature
within me at least on a Planet that is the right one now; where the illusion now for me at least after sought and
found again here; is the
'other place', was the
only one to live. It might be
easy for some folks to dismiss
that i am of the Autistic origin of non-speaking
Child and eventual little professor and valuable commodity
for only systemizing skills in fixing Software issues with Computers
for the other 'jocks' in the department as I was also being paid to be
Athletic Director. No, it wasn't nearly as hard to identify that form of my strange
then. Now, I'm even stranger for I no longer hold back any part of me and am free.
Sure, easy for me to say now, financially independent with a lovely wife and 'dance legend' oohs and
awes of Photo Selfies now with the younger folks most every I go. Point is, I was also a frozen person
inside and a very poor person fortunate enough to finish college with three degrees on grants and
the such as that Government Assistance with a Scholarship here and there to get by. I lived at home
until the later part of my 20's and after married at 29; the wife and I moved back in to save money for
a home that we eventually did while both of us were still making close to minimum wage a couples of dollars
and hour up for me by then. Thing is; I still had the advantage of the GPA, even if I didn't have what it took to
get a higher paying job then. Hans Asperger, in the study of his Case Studies of the Children as he was attempting
to Validate cause for their existence away from Extermination of a NAZI Regime back in 'those days'; he allowed for
their continuing existence in what he did to help them with others along the way then. Years Later, in a longitudinal
Study many were found to be quite successful in a Niche that worked for them. It's true, too, as far systemizing
folks on the Spectrum and General Nerds per Stereotypical 'Computer Jocks'; the last 30 years or so has
surely been an 'ultimate revenge of the nerds'; for it's true, my hand writing is so sloppy, it's not
likely I would have ever finished a Book versus 12 Million Words in the last 2646 days of
doing just that without, "IT"; Bottom lines; change is reality and things can and will get
Better or won't without can and will and potentially go even more sour. If it's
A Wizard of Oz one can and will find a life exercise that brings
the Lion of Fearless Courage more to life; the Heart of the
Tin Man oiled more into being; and sure, if need be,
some more more brilliance in the pursuit
of intellectual ScareCrow Reason too.
And before one knows it; one, too,
might be clicking one's
magic
whatevers together
Dancing And Singing
there's no place like this
home now in fact and feeling and
sensing there is no better now for all
is complete all is satisfied and there is only
a continuing stairway to Heaven one already lives.
I'm still stepping up for i never gave up at the very bottom
of the bottom when i felt nothing nothing at all. i feel Love that's enough
but sure
i enjoy
a little
Systemizing
Science on the Wrong Planet
and many other places too. As in
all stuff light and life the Truth of Yin
and Yang makes a Karma of Reap as Sown
for what we do now as opposed to what we do not.
And that is for each person to seek and find and for me at least;
The fact that i used to live in the bottom of the pit; makes Heaven that more delicious;
even though i Lost my sense of smell close to a year ago with a cold and it hasn't come back
but for strange and not always pleasant at all. That doesn't taint my Heaven at all; for I always live up
to plan B, C, D, F and the rest of the Alphabet soup beyond Alpha to Omega all. That's truly A Magic of LiFE:
Options
sought
and found
and used
for the
betterment
of what is now
and when now is all one
needs that's best for now is all that is;
best pART of all it is mostly a do it yourself
endeavor, where it's not a guaranteed robot
gift of empty within.
When one is whole,
it's impossible
to bring
one
down by others
less than whole; other than
tools of killing of course, these days, too.
Find the exercises that work; unlimited
options and potential if one can and will.


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24 Feb 2018, 5:25 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
I would agree with that. Sexist gender roles are bad not just for women, but for men too. Just as women are expected to be more emotional (and emotionally intelligent) and nurturing men are expected to NOT be those things because that is the territory of women and femininity, and femininity (and therefore emotionality) is bad and lesser. It's all very old-fashioned and unfair and hurts so many people who don't or can't easily fit into those stereotypes of what a "man" or a "woman" is supposed to be. Women are punished also (often by other women, usually in their own families or friends) for not fitting the emotional nurturing roll we are supposed to play. I've never felt drawn to children and babies and always felt judged very negatively sometimes by men but mostly by other women for that.

Sadder still I don't think that this is even just sociology or culture badly done, I think it's that biologically and situationally heavy-handed as to be incorrigible in the main.

I think what we have to do is find new ways for men to explore their emotionality, I mean really develop it, in a way that's seen as masculine. My love of deep, dark, or minimal drum n bass seems like that sort of masculine emotional and even spiritual/mystic pursuit although I'm something of a misfit in that it's largely confined to the UK and Europe (I'm in the US and liking foreign music seems as strange to people as rooting for foreign soccer teams). I do think the male role is also under some redesign and the standards that masculinity were applied with before are seeking to be upgraded to a sort of 2.0 where it's fit for both the social world we've created as well as the places we want to go in terms of civilization in the future.

As far as femininity, I think it's been terribly underrated, maligned, and I think women - maybe even more poignantly - will feel drawn back to redesign and redefine beauty, nurturing, and even just speaking as a guy our world loses something as terrible with the lack of femininity as it loses with the lack of great art. I really like a particular philosophic one-liner that Allison Armstrong said about femininity and beauty, that men see God in the faces of women. I think this needs a 2.0 as well.

Overall I don't think we can get away from the gender roles because to some degree what we are seems to be in us all the way through the bottom of the stack and when we run to the bottom of that stack we see something like a void with a structure of genetic contingencies built over it. To me that means we need to find increasingly wholesome and productive ways to be masculine, or be feminine, and perhaps the real cerebral challenge will be how to define them as such and at the same time make them even more holistic where both have very highly esteemed routes (within the rules) to pursue the opposite within themselves. Even just thinking of having a healthy or fit society, without that sort of conciliation, without integrity being a front and center value, you just can't have a healthy populace and without that you have a brain-dead culture or a culture that mistakes hyper specialization for intelligence.


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“Those who know that they are profound strive for clarity. Those who would like to seem profound to the crowd strive for obscurity. For the crowd believes that if it cannot see to the bottom of something it must be profound. It is so timid and dislikes going into the water.” - Friedrich Nietzsche