An INSANE, CRAZY, IRRATIONAL Challenge to Atheists!! !

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Greatshield17
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25 Feb 2018, 10:09 pm


What is that up there? That is a consecrated Eucharist Host in a monstrance. What is a consecrate Eucharist Host? I hope you don't mind me bringing up Scripture but read this: St. John 6:22-69

So yeah, I'm going to take this approach, not that I don't have any rational arguments for the existence of God, in fact I just provided one a couple of days ago on my Ask a Traditional Catholic thread,I just figured I'd try a supernatural approach and see how things go. I'd like any and all Atheists, and non-Catholics for that matter, to watch the livestream above for 10-15 minutes everyday, from now until Easter, and pray, meditate, and adore while watching this. (If you like, I can give you some prayers to say while in Adoration. I'm fully open to no one converting (yet) after this challenge, but I do hope and pray that someone does, so please let me know if you're trying this, and I will add my prayers into the mix.

Let's see how things go.


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Aniihya
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26 Feb 2018, 1:04 pm

You are only out to try to convert non-Catholics. But you do not seem to care about what matters most: The welfare of people and actually going out and helping the underprivileged and unfortunate. To me, as a quaker, that is what a true Christian should do. So practically act with Jesus as a role model. That is why I am a quaker and not a Catholic.



shlaifu
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26 Feb 2018, 7:55 pm

Sane, rational challenge by an atheist:
How about you meditate daily, spend 15 minutes verbalizing your hopes and dreams, and your wrongdoings and failures once a week- the same thing you do in prayer and confession- just without referring to a higher being, or god.
Replace service with your community with a guided meditation class (admittedly, you can't just swap communities like that. It'll take some time)

See if it makes enough of a difference to justify dogma.


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Mudboy
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26 Feb 2018, 9:15 pm

shlaifu wrote:
Sane, rational challenge by an atheist:
How about you meditate daily, spend 15 minutes verbalizing your hopes and dreams, and your wrongdoings and failures once a week- the same thing you do in prayer and confession- just without referring to a higher being, or god.
Replace service with your community with a guided meditation class (admittedly, you can't just swap communities like that. It'll take some time)

See if it makes enough of a difference to justify dogma.

I am a pagan and this sounds like normal self affirmation. Some shrinks want you to do this out loud, while looking in a mirror. It is good for you.

I don't get the replace service with community. Are you talking about my volunteer activities?


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kraftiekortie
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26 Feb 2018, 9:17 pm

Catholics don't normally actively seek converts.

What is your opinion of Pope Francis? He's not your usual Catholic.



Greatshield17
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26 Feb 2018, 11:00 pm

shlaifu wrote:
Sane, rational challenge by an atheist:
How about you meditate daily, spend 15 minutes verbalizing your hopes and dreams, and your wrongdoings and failures once a week- the same thing you do in prayer and confession- just without referring to a higher being, or god.
Replace service with your community with a guided meditation class (admittedly, you can't just swap communities like that. It'll take some time)

See if it makes enough of a difference to justify dogma.

When I was a Deist, I verbalized my wrong doings more then once a week.

It didn't work.


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Greatshield17
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26 Feb 2018, 11:02 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Catholics don't normally actively seek converts.

What is your opinion of Pope Francis? He's not your usual Catholic.

He's better than those normal Catholics you're referring to.


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Greatshield17
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26 Feb 2018, 11:12 pm

Aniihya wrote:
You are only out to try to convert non-Catholics. But you do not seem to care about what matters most: The welfare of people and actually going out and helping the underprivileged and unfortunate. To me, as a quaker, that is what a true Christian should do. So practically act with Jesus as a role model. That is why I am a quaker and not a Catholic.


I'm interested in helping the underprivileged and unfortunate as well, I just think that what would be most helpful for them, and make them the happiest, is an intimate, loving relationship with God.

Also, when the Catholic Church moved away from helping the underprivileged and unfortunate both spiritually and materially, and focused only helping these people materially, it was, and still is, a complete and total disaster. So I'm kind of reluctant to repeat that same mistake.


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shlaifu
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27 Feb 2018, 11:47 am

Mudboy wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
Sane, rational challenge by an atheist:
How about you meditate daily, spend 15 minutes verbalizing your hopes and dreams, and your wrongdoings and failures once a week- the same thing you do in prayer and confession- just without referring to a higher being, or god.
Replace service with your community with a guided meditation class (admittedly, you can't just swap communities like that. It'll take some time)

See if it makes enough of a difference to justify dogma.

I am a pagan and this sounds like normal self affirmation. Some shrinks want you to do this out loud, while looking in a mirror. It is good for you.

I don't get the replace service with community. Are you talking about my volunteer activities?


that's the point - my challenge is to do the self-affirmation thing and the therapeutic thing and see if god is a necessary part of the experience, or rather a useless construct on top that does more harm than good.
but belief also comes with community, i.e. church-service and meeting up regularly and having conversations and stuff, all around this community activity of sitting in a church for a bit. finding an equivalent for that which doesn't involve any god, but serves a similar psychological and social function is a bit harder.


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Greatshield17
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27 Feb 2018, 10:19 pm

shlaifu wrote:
Mudboy wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
Sane, rational challenge by an atheist:
How about you meditate daily, spend 15 minutes verbalizing your hopes and dreams, and your wrongdoings and failures once a week- the same thing you do in prayer and confession- just without referring to a higher being, or god.
Replace service with your community with a guided meditation class (admittedly, you can't just swap communities like that. It'll take some time)

See if it makes enough of a difference to justify dogma.

I am a pagan and this sounds like normal self affirmation. Some shrinks want you to do this out loud, while looking in a mirror. It is good for you.

I don't get the replace service with community. Are you talking about my volunteer activities?


that's the point - my challenge is to do the self-affirmation thing and the therapeutic thing and see if god is a necessary part of the experience, or rather a useless construct on top that does more harm than good.
but belief also comes with community, i.e. church-service and meeting up regularly and having conversations and stuff, all around this community activity of sitting in a church for a bit. finding an equivalent for that which doesn't involve any god, but serves a similar psychological and social function is a bit harder.

Most young Catholics, myself included, are attracted to the Traditional Latin mass, because it places more of an emphasis on worshipping God, rather than being a social gathering of like-minded people.


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"I Would that everyone might know I should be already damned, were it not for Mary!"
- From St. Louis de Montfort's Prayer to Jesus

Glory to God
and
Hail Mary!


Mudboy
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27 Feb 2018, 11:52 pm

shlaifu wrote:
belief also comes with community, i.e. church-service and meeting up regularly and having conversations and stuff, all around this community activity of sitting in a church for a bit. finding an equivalent for that which doesn't involve any god, but serves a similar psychological and social function is a bit harder.

I found the UU church kind of like that. Ten years ago, I went a couple of times. Unfortunately, the political climate was too alien for me. I should try again to see if conservatism has become a little more acceptable now.


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aghogday
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28 Feb 2018, 1:03 pm

Well, speaking as a Free Verse Poet and someone raised in the Catholic Church and matter of fact a Grandson
of a noted X-Catholic Priest of Last Century as Author of Several noted books, including "Behind
the Dictators" as that applies to close ties of the Papacy and the Nazi regime and 'stuff' like that;
Do 'you' even understand literally
what the Bread of Life and Manna
from So Called Heaven is. It's not a Temple;
And it's not a Cross; And it's not just one man;
it's simple; real; and as Colorful more than anything
Measurable by Scientific Method or Book Alone, including
Bibles and Korans and all the Poetry that will ever be written
to capture the Essence of what Truly Makes Humans all of what
they can and will be now fearless for all their potential now more.

Let me spell it out.

L O V E.

For it's True when one lives with
and as L O V E Fearless and Unconditionally
the Kingdom of Heaven and God and other 'Divine' metaphors
becomes Love as a Fearless way of Life and Being within real
as that can and will be expressed in both Heart of Art and
Reason of Science too. But of course we are talking about
a Very Malignant Patriarchy of 2000 years ago; where
males then were even more separated from
their Emotions as males are today.
Is it any wonder they were
Jealous of Women.
Is it any
wonder of the lengths
they would go to find what they
were missing within. Is it any wonder
they are still lost now in a similar Ocean
Of Malignant Patriarchy now that and who
continues to Reduce the Essence of Love into the
Form of Tools and Men alone and even one man alone still, now;
in terms, of similar views of life with last prophets too per singular as such too.
No; it's not, those were all just rhetorical statements with obvious answers for me,
at Least;
for all that
is worthwhile
within is Lost without Love.
When one gets this Bread of Life one
gives and shares it; no longer are the material
goods and shrines of Culture what are the most important 'stuff'
beyond the flesh and blood of Love. Love is not A Church or A Religion;
And at least in Certain Parts of the New Testament that particular Message
of Beyond Infinity of an internal eternal Force of Now beyond any empirical
Means of Science Measurement now, still exists; and is beyond any measure of any word or book
as tool now, alone. It's True, for Love can and will be found within as Greater than all the books
and other tools of the World when this Love is missing in a Human on a Pristine Beach
with no other Footprints or other Condo-Cancers of Humanity now; but when
this Love that is whole and fearless and unconditional lives within;
That Good Cop Jesus Message
comes to fruition
as Metaphor
more;
Sadly, the message 'hear'
is lost in a 'Robot' on a 'screen;
in an idol of something that doesn't exist at all, for some;
Or even a Man Hanging as Portrait on a wall with no substance
left of Love for those who view Love as more than just a form of essence real.
I've said it before; and sure, i'll 'see' it again; i write my own Bibles as the other ones
don't even now
reliably
get the
Message
through
that God is Love;
Literally Love, when real within;
the higher Force that Grains of Sand
will hold up as God as Towers of Mountain Human Love more; now.
Anyway, first step to finding Love is to lose fear. Either a still or moving
meditation is a first step to regulating emotions and integrating senses to
do just that; if someone wants to recite a Romans 10:9 or look at a picture or
a video that is fine with me; but if 'you' wanna lose fear and become an Unconditional
Loving Force for as is as God as Love now; that's gonna take close to the spirit of a Yogi-like
Story of Jesus to get that Real Job done now. It's worth it in when a person achieves
this state of being of Fearless Love; actually doing it is where the Camel is
the Fear
and
the Love
is the Needle real.
In other words, Dance
and Sing more than is written before.
And sure, I haven't missed a Catholic Mass
since September of 2013; but you see, i am a
Participant Anthropologist Observer of Love that
watches and takes notes of where 'they' are still 'screwing'
up; no different than my Grandfather did and much different
for he was still sold on a fallacy that any man alone is Love or
that any man or any Grain of sand is any more or less integral to all that is;
For it is true, without
grains of sand;
no man
and or
woman
can and or will
Stand tall as a Mountain of Love more..:)


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redrobin62
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01 Mar 2018, 4:49 pm

You're delusional in thinking your proof of evidence was actual proof. Simply put, you CANNOT provide proof of evidence because THERE IS no proof of evidence. Just man up and admit you believe in God because others, and a book, says he exists. That's good enough for me.



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02 Mar 2018, 8:12 am

Greatshield17 wrote:
Aniihya wrote:
You are only out to try to convert non-Catholics. But you do not seem to care about what matters most: The welfare of people and actually going out and helping the underprivileged and unfortunate. To me, as a quaker, that is what a true Christian should do. So practically act with Jesus as a role model. That is why I am a quaker and not a Catholic.


I'm interested in helping the underprivileged and unfortunate as well, I just think that what would be most helpful for them, and make them the happiest, is an intimate, loving relationship with God.

Also, when the Catholic Church moved away from helping the underprivileged and unfortunate both spiritually and materially, and focused only helping these people materially, it was, and still is, a complete and total disaster. So I'm kind of reluctant to repeat that same mistake.


The big issue still is that you cannot be forceful when trying to get them to have a relationship with a higher being and then you also need to consider the varying interpretations of how a relationship with god/higher being should be. I prefer a more down to earth approach, not aspiring to annoy god repeatedly to find his/her attention to try to be in his or her favor. Some quakers have silent worship to focus on thoughts and to "hear" god to be closer to him/her. While others like me use silent worship to gain uninterrupted thought and focus on how to act in Jesus footsteps. Nearly every one of my actions is considered carefully to be altruistic and with good intent, yet realistic instead of idealistic. It fills me with joy to help others who are in need of it, even when I do not have resources to donate materials. You can help others if you possess skills. That can be showing empathy, being good in motivating people, being good in teaching people practical skills etc. Every "thank you" is more worth to personal happiness than a bundle of cash.