Starting programming with is better Python or Java ?

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pawelk1986
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12 Mar 2018, 5:29 pm

I just bought programming (coding) courses on udemy, for Java and python?



I'm from Poland, on our Polish facebook group of on our Polish famous political and science vloger guy is basically one man band, and his fans like me usually have higher than average IQ :-)



I have Asperger syndrome, have 31 years old, i graduated in Library Science and yet i work in KFC fast food restaurant, not get me wrong i love me work but i want something more intellectually challenging!



So i asked my online friends does buying into programming Python (i want learn it because scientist from NASA and ROSCOSMOS  mainly use it)  boot-camp organized by on of our Wroclaw (my city) IT company, my friends told my to try  better to but course on UDAMY that they have They have a lot of Polish langue programming course and in English even more and now they have 85% discount for few hours



So i bought  :Programowanie w JAVIE kurs dla początkujących" - Java programming course for beginners " i "Python dla początkujących" - Python for beginners i also bought Polish version of "Python for kids. A playful Introduction to programming" it was advised in bookstore with academic premiers, guy said that it's for kids but college students around the world also use it.



I always wanted to be a programmer first I heard that programmers in Poland can earn a dozen times more than regular employees, as much as LOT pilots (our national air carrier) and second is a very nice job, but I have never been good at math :-(

I've always had the same ratings "3-" D- in Anglo-American grading scale  



In high school at the instigation of IT teacher I signed up for her extended lessons, which included learning program in the programming language Logo, and Turbo borland turbo pascal, it was a journey through torment, he called the conditional loops, the teacher gave me 3- told me to continue to learn programming because I started to go well, but I was sick of it then, but now I regret it



Ichinin
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13 Mar 2018, 5:19 am

I would chose Python, because i think Java is more of a disease but that's me.

What do you want to do, do you want to work with large boring projects with lots of bloated code that runs on expensive hardware (Java) or do you want to be able to write code as a supplement to other IT skills (Python)? Python is a popular language in IT-security for example, Java is popular for web services.

Both languages have merit and their uses, they are capable, but unlike Java, Python is not as cross platform as you would think, Python on Windows is a bit lacking and not everything is implemented (you cant do forks on processes for example). For everyday use python is fine, just make sure you read up on its quirks before you accept it for a larger project.

An alternative to Java is .NET which also is cross platform now, can do 3 flavours, C++, C# and VB.NET. There is plenty of code examples for .NET, and if you find an example in one language (like VB.NET) you can port it easily to C# since all the system calls are the same, only the actual language differs. If you go to Java or .NET the change from Java world to the .NET framework is a smaller step than if you would go from Python to one of the others.

EDIT: you do not need to be good at math, if you're going to design a 3D engine with vector graphics and shaders and stuff, well - then you need math. If you are going to write a webpage that lets the user enter numbers and search for information, math is not necessary. There is an overbelief that math nerds are the best programmers. I find them to be mostly academics and narrow minded people who lives "inside the box" and only learn one language like C++ and thinks that everything else is crap because their teacher said so. A good programmer learns several languages during his/her career and expands the thought process.

Logo and pascal are ancient languages and i cannot understand why anyone would teach them...


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pawelk1986
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13 Mar 2018, 7:07 am

Ichinin wrote:
I would chose Python, because i think Java is more of a disease but that's me.

What do you want to do, do you want to work with large boring projects with lots of bloated code that runs on expensive hardware (Java) or do you want to be able to write code as a supplement to other IT skills (Python)? Python is a popular language in IT-security for example, Java is popular for web services.

Both languages have merit and their uses, they are capable, but unlike Java, Python is not as cross platform as you would think, Python on Windows is a bit lacking and not everything is implemented (you cant do forks on processes for example). For everyday use python is fine, just make sure you read up on its quirks before you accept it for a larger project.

An alternative to Java is .NET which also is cross platform now, can do 3 flavours, C++, C# and VB.NET. There is plenty of code examples for .NET, and if you find an example in one language (like VB.NET) you can port it easily to C# since all the system calls are the same, only the actual language differs. If you go to Java or .NET the change from Java world to the .NET framework is a smaller step than if you would go from Python to one of the others.

EDIT: you do not need to be good at math, if you're going to design a 3D engine with vector graphics and shaders and stuff, well - then you need math. If you are going to write a webpage that lets the user enter numbers and search for information, math is not necessary. There is an overbelief that math nerds are the best programmers. I find them to be mostly academics and narrow minded people who lives "inside the box" and only learn one language like C++ and thinks that everything else is crap because their teacher said so. A good programmer learns several languages during his/her career and expands the thought process.

Logo and pascal are ancient languages and i cannot understand why anyone would teach them...


I wonder maybe I can buy a matetmatic course for beginners ;-)

At school, even with multiplication and division without a calculator was a problem for me, I did not want to learn a multiplication table, I liked mathematics, chemistry, biology and computer science more than mathematics as such.

And they say that my autistic people love math, well, I hated this subject.

More of maths and physics, I learned this Newtonian when I played this game, Kerbal Space Program, here you see my fanned space landing, you can get more respect for the craftsmanship of American astronauts :mrgreen:



Ichinin
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13 Mar 2018, 7:29 am

Well, there is theory and practice. This is what Randal Munroe (the creator of XKCD) said about the same after having worked at NASA and later on playing KSP:

Image

(I'm an experienced KSP player myself, having built space stations and visited most planets to plant a flag. I have had absolutely zero use for math flying spaceships in any simulator).


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pawelk1986
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15 Mar 2018, 10:31 pm

Ichinin wrote:
Well, there is theory and practice. This is what Randal Munroe (the creator of XKCD) said about the same after having worked at NASA and later on playing KSP:

Image

(I'm an experienced KSP player myself, having built space stations and visited most planets to plant a flag. I have had absolutely zero use for math flying spaceships in any simulator).


I just wonder does gay can be astronaut, just asking :mrgreen:



V001
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18 Mar 2018, 9:11 pm

Learn both Java and Python they have diffrent uses. Java uses alot of what are called classes. Java works much like lego blocks of coding. Python has very short and compact coding.

PYTHON
Has a compact syntax needing far fewer lines of code than languages like Java or C++. It’s very popular and is used for websites and artificial intelligence (AI) tasks.
print("Hello World")


In Java it looks like this.


JAVA
Something that made Java special is that it was designed so you could write code once and then allow it to run on any operation system. Java is the most popular programming language in the world. It’s used to teach students and in large companies. All Android apps are written in Java.

class HelloWorldApp {
public static void main(String[] args) {
System.out.println("Hello World!"); // Prints the string to the console.
}
}

And here is say-hello-world-in-28-different-programming-languages/
https://excelwithbusiness.com/blog/say- ... languages/



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18 Mar 2018, 10:20 pm

I would pick Java, as it is much more "cleaner", to me----and, like someone else said, you can run it, practically anywhere (any OS).

I LOVE coding in Java!! Also, my editor has a "find" feature----I'm sure everybody's does----and, I can plug-in something, and BOOM, I'm there!!

Also, they have pretty good IDEs online----go to mashable.com, and check-out their guide!!





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22 Mar 2018, 1:27 am

pawelk1986 wrote:
Ichinin wrote:
I would chose Python, because i think Java is more of a disease but that's me.

What do you want to do, do you want to work with large boring projects with lots of bloated code that runs on expensive hardware (Java) or do you want to be able to write code as a supplement to other IT skills (Python)? Python is a popular language in IT-security for example, Java is popular for web services.

Both languages have merit and their uses, they are capable, but unlike Java, Python is not as cross platform as you would think, Python on Windows is a bit lacking and not everything is implemented (you cant do forks on processes for example). For everyday use python is fine, just make sure you read up on its quirks before you accept it for a larger project.

An alternative to Java is .NET which also is cross platform now, can do 3 flavours, C++, C# and VB.NET. There is plenty of code examples for .NET, and if you find an example in one language (like VB.NET) you can port it easily to C# since all the system calls are the same, only the actual language differs. If you go to Java or .NET the change from Java world to the .NET framework is a smaller step than if you would go from Python to one of the others.

EDIT: you do not need to be good at math, if you're going to design a 3D engine with vector graphics and shaders and stuff, well - then you need math. If you are going to write a webpage that lets the user enter numbers and search for information, math is not necessary. There is an overbelief that math nerds are the best programmers. I find them to be mostly academics and narrow minded people who lives "inside the box" and only learn one language like C++ and thinks that everything else is crap because their teacher said so. A good programmer learns several languages during his/her career and expands the thought process.

Logo and pascal are ancient languages and i cannot understand why anyone would teach them...


I wonder maybe I can buy a matetmatic course for beginners ;-)

At school, even with multiplication and division without a calculator was a problem for me, I did not want to learn a multiplication table, I liked mathematics, chemistry, biology and computer science more than mathematics as such.

And they say that my autistic people love math, well, I hated this subject.

More of maths and physics, I learned this Newtonian when I played this game, Kerbal Space Program, here you see my fanned space landing, you can get more respect for the craftsmanship of American astronauts :mrgreen:



You should try Khan Academy, start at Pre-Algebra and Geometry and work your way up. I swear by it. I am horrible at math but got a B minus in Calculus because of the lectures and practice problems available on that site. I still practice almost everyday, currently around 50% mastery in Algebra 1. I'm also working on a Computer Programming degree.



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07 Apr 2018, 12:36 am

pawelk1986 wrote:
I wonder maybe I can buy a matetmatic course for beginners ;-)

At school, even with multiplication and division without a calculator was a problem for me, I did not want to learn a multiplication table, I liked mathematics, chemistry, biology and computer science more than mathematics as such.

And they say that my autistic people love math, well, I hated this subject.


Most people who hate math actually hate the way that they feel when they do math, because so much of the learning process is spent doing things wrong and that can be demoralizing. You just have to know you're going to understand it eventually, and that when you do get it, it's going to be amazing.

I stopped learning math in 7th grade. At 31 years old I went back to school. I used the Khan Academy to relearn arithmetic with fractions and then I started with elementary algebra. Then I took Java 1 programming.

It was excruciatingly difficult.

I didn't take any more programming classes for the next 4 years, I exclusively focused on math. Then, just a few months ago, I took a C++ programming class. It was a cakewalk.

Whoever said you don't need to know math to program probably had a valid point but the truth of the matter is that math teaches you to structure information and to consider complex dynamics in the way that is necessary for programming. Surely there are other ways to learn that structure, but math absolutely does help people to become better programmers, which is why upper division math is necessary for computer programming degrees.

Now then to answer your question, you should learn one of the more formal languages, like Java or C++. Python is so user friendly that some of the intuition gets lost. You'll be a better problem solver if you take the time to learn Java before diving into Python. Plus, then Python will seem so easy. I'm doing python now, and it's an even cakier cakewalk than C++ last quarter.

** To be honest, I did also study R, but that's more like a calculator than a programming language.



pawelk1986
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07 Apr 2018, 10:35 am

ElleGaunt wrote:
pawelk1986 wrote:
I wonder maybe I can buy a matetmatic course for beginners ;-)

At school, even with multiplication and division without a calculator was a problem for me, I did not want to learn a multiplication table, I liked mathematics, chemistry, biology and computer science more than mathematics as such.

And they say that my autistic people love math, well, I hated this subject.


Most people who hate math actually hate the way that they feel when they do math, because so much of the learning process is spent doing things wrong and that can be demoralizing. You just have to know you're going to understand it eventually, and that when you do get it, it's going to be amazing.

I stopped learning math in 7th grade. At 31 years old I went back to school. I used the Khan Academy to relearn arithmetic with fractions and then I started with elementary algebra. Then I took Java 1 programming.

It was excruciatingly difficult.

I didn't take any more programming classes for the next 4 years, I exclusively focused on math. Then, just a few months ago, I took a C++ programming class. It was a cakewalk.

Whoever said you don't need to know math to program probably had a valid point but the truth of the matter is that math teaches you to structure information and to consider complex dynamics in the way that is necessary for programming. Surely there are other ways to learn that structure, but math absolutely does help people to become better programmers, which is why upper division math is necessary for computer programming degrees.

Now then to answer your question, you should learn one of the more formal languages, like Java or C++. Python is so user friendly that some of the intuition gets lost. You'll be a better problem solver if you take the time to learn Java before diving into Python. Plus, then Python will seem so easy. I'm doing python now, and it's an even cakier cakewalk than C++ last quarter.

** To be honest, I did also study R, but that's more like a calculator than a programming language.


Khan Academy does is free? Does i can learn from this? I spend a lot of money on Udemy :(