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thinkinginpictures
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13 Mar 2018, 2:21 pm

Many Christians say that one should love their enemies rather than destroying them.

But I don't quite get the idea, from a rational point of view:

If I begin to feel compassion for my enemies (ie. nazis, fascists, religious nuts going crazy and committing terrorism etc.) and not destroying my enemy, or at least vote for a party that will destroy my enemy, my enemy will abuse my compassion and unwillingness to fight against them, to rule my life and end my liberty and cause me to kill those I cared for in the first place - in the name of my enemy (like for instance, conscription).

To me, my enemies are like sickness. It would be like if you were diagnosed with cancer (cancer the becomes your enemy) but instead of treating it - removing it from your body, you begin to love it. It will kill you.

Nazis and fascists are like cancer cells to the human society.

Please explain the rationality behind it.



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13 Mar 2018, 3:03 pm

I'm actually going to agree that "universal love" is a dumb concept. It's a concept that "feels good" ... but what does it even mean?

Let's be honest. Most people only love people who they have met personally. I don't see how "universal love" is ever genuine.

Perhaps some people assume that all evil in the world is caused by hate. In my opinion, most of the evil in the world comes from a lack of information, not hate.

We should all understand that we are being oppressed by plutocratic billionaire lobbyists. We should join forces with other people who recognize this oppression and are willing to fight against it ... but "universal love" is not a helpful concept. It's just deepity.

Don't worry. I don't think that loving oppressors is mandatory.


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13 Mar 2018, 3:45 pm

Loving your enemy does not mean you are not allowed to destroy them. It means don't destroy yourself at the same time. Loving your enemy is about internal peace. Your hate and anger does not affect your enemy any more than your love does. Hate only harms yourself. It leads to stress, stomach ulcers, and headaches. Samurai were big believers in inner peace for battle.


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DarthMetaKnight
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13 Mar 2018, 4:12 pm

Mudboy wrote:
Loving your enemy does not mean you are not allowed to destroy them. It means don't destroy yourself at the same time. Loving your enemy is about internal peace. Your hate and anger does not affect your enemy any more than your love does. Hate only harms yourself. It leads to stress, stomach ulcers, and headaches. Samurai were big believers in inner peace for battle.


What you are describing isn't really "loving your enemy". It's just rationality.

It's possible to neither hate nor love a person. It's possible to maintain a neutral emotional state.


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sly279
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13 Mar 2018, 5:14 pm

I always took it as be kind and show kindness to them when you can. Like how we treat prisoners of war and former enemies.
Any enemy could become a friend, perhaps the reason to be enemies is false.

I don’t think it was meant towards people actively trying to kill you but to try to peace if possible. I like stories about former soldiers from different sides after ww2 becoming friends. If they can overcome the hatred and be friends with people who in some cases killed many of their friends then anything is possible.
Another example is the Christmas truce of ww1.
Or treating wounded enemies. Most of use aren’t enemies of our own choice.

You can show compassion to those who you disagree with and who show hatred to you without losing to them. We shouldn’t lose who we are to fight bad people. I beleive giving medical treatment to a terrorist who just killed your friends is right thing to do. I do understand the desire to watch them die from distressed people though. But isn’t that what the terrorist would do.



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13 Mar 2018, 5:31 pm

sly279 wrote:
I always took it as be kind and show kindness to them when you can. Like how we treat prisoners of war and former enemies.
Any enemy could become a friend, perhaps the reason to be enemies is false.

I don’t think it was meant towards people actively trying to kill you but to try to peace if possible. I like stories about former soldiers from different sides after ww2 becoming friends. If they can overcome the hatred and be friends with people who in some cases killed many of their friends then anything is possible.
Another example is the Christmas truce of ww1.
Or treating wounded enemies. Most of use aren’t enemies of our own choice.

You can show compassion to those who you disagree with and who show hatred to you without losing to them. We shouldn’t lose who we are to fight bad people. I beleive giving medical treatment to a terrorist who just killed your friends is right thing to do. I do understand the desire to watch them die from distressed people though. But isn’t that what the terrorist would do.


I disagree because just hoping or praying for an enemy to start showing peace doesn't work in a "real world" point of view as history shows it, and certainly it doesn't stop these people from acting on anyone else against their will.

The OP's reason is so one of the reasons I started to doubt Jesus and Christianity years back. The doctrine of "universal love" is supported (in kind of sick or weird way), and it's more similar to what Karl Marx and his like spoken about on individuality.

So I guess strongly pro-life evangelical Christians shouldn't worry about being endangered by their pro-abortion neighbors because God-Jesus is everything else and bigger than all of us? : :?

I believe that at least 50% of contemporary Christian doctrine must be closer to communism or fascism.



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13 Mar 2018, 8:15 pm

Mudboy wrote:
Loving your enemy does not mean you are not allowed to destroy them. It means don't destroy yourself at the same time. Loving your enemy is about internal peace. Your hate and anger does not affect your enemy any more than your love does. Hate only harms yourself. It leads to stress, stomach ulcers, and headaches. Samurai were big believers in inner peace for battle.


beautifully put!


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Veggie Farmer
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13 Mar 2018, 8:17 pm

sly279 wrote:
I always took it as be kind and show kindness to them when you can. Like how we treat prisoners of war and former enemies.
Any enemy could become a friend, perhaps the reason to be enemies is false.

I don’t think it was meant towards people actively trying to kill you but to try to peace if possible. I like stories about former soldiers from different sides after ww2 becoming friends. If they can overcome the hatred and be friends with people who in some cases killed many of their friends then anything is possible.
Another example is the Christmas truce of ww1.
Or treating wounded enemies. Most of use aren’t enemies of our own choice.

You can show compassion to those who you disagree with and who show hatred to you without losing to them. We shouldn’t lose who we are to fight bad people. I beleive giving medical treatment to a terrorist who just killed your friends is right thing to do. I do understand the desire to watch them die from distressed people though. But isn’t that what the terrorist would do.


wonderful, compassionate response!


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13 Mar 2018, 9:03 pm

sly279 wrote:
I always took it as be kind and show kindness to them when you can. Like how we treat prisoners of war and former enemies.
Any enemy could become a friend, perhaps the reason to be enemies is false.

I don’t think it was meant towards people actively trying to kill you but to try to peace if possible. I like stories about former soldiers from different sides after ww2 becoming friends. If they can overcome the hatred and be friends with people who in some cases killed many of their friends then anything is possible.
Another example is the Christmas truce of ww1.
Or treating wounded enemies. Most of use aren’t enemies of our own choice.

You can show compassion to those who you disagree with and who show hatred to you without losing to them. We shouldn’t lose who we are to fight bad people. I believe giving medical treatment to a terrorist who just killed your friends is right thing to do. I do understand the desire to watch them die from distressed people though. But isn’t that what the terrorist would do.
This is mostly true. Due to international politics, several times I had enemies from one conflict end up being my friends and allies in another. Unless one side is particularly heinous, warriors normally don't hate each other.
Hate can also lead to bad decisions that can add more scars to the soul. Survivors of conflict should love each other to lessen those scars.


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13 Mar 2018, 9:23 pm

Mudboy wrote:
Loving your enemy does not mean you are not allowed to destroy them. It means don't destroy yourself at the same time. Loving your enemy is about internal peace. Your hate and anger does not affect your enemy any more than your love does. Hate only harms yourself. It leads to stress, stomach ulcers, and headaches. Samurai were big believers in inner peace for battle.

I often thought of that saying also, now I know what it means thanks to Mudboy.


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13 Mar 2018, 10:45 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
sly279 wrote:
I always took it as be kind and show kindness to them when you can. Like how we treat prisoners of war and former enemies.
Any enemy could become a friend, perhaps the reason to be enemies is false.

I don’t think it was meant towards people actively trying to kill you but to try to peace if possible. I like stories about former soldiers from different sides after ww2 becoming friends. If they can overcome the hatred and be friends with people who in some cases killed many of their friends then anything is possible.
Another example is the Christmas truce of ww1.
Or treating wounded enemies. Most of use aren’t enemies of our own choice.

You can show compassion to those who you disagree with and who show hatred to you without losing to them. We shouldn’t lose who we are to fight bad people. I beleive giving medical treatment to a terrorist who just killed your friends is right thing to do. I do understand the desire to watch them die from distressed people though. But isn’t that what the terrorist would do.


I disagree because just hoping or praying for an enemy to start showing peace doesn't work in a "real world" point of view as history shows it, and certainly it doesn't stop these people from acting on anyone else against their will.

The OP's reason is so one of the reasons I started to doubt Jesus and Christianity years back. The doctrine of "universal love" is supported (in kind of sick or weird way), and it's more similar to what Karl Marx and his like spoken about on individuality.

So I guess strongly pro-life evangelical Christians shouldn't worry about being endangered by their pro-abortion neighbors because God-Jesus is everything else and bigger than all of us? : :?

I believe that at least 50% of contemporary Christian doctrine must be closer to communism or fascism.


Where did I say that? I said be ready to fight and fight but hope for peace.
The alternative is the past where you kill every single lass enemy and take their land. Wipeing whole civilizations from existence to get rid of your enemy. Imagine if we just killed every last single Japanese or German after ww2 now we loved our enemy and helped them rebuild and become friends



aghogday
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14 Mar 2018, 4:41 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW5qF9fheXw

Well, First of all, if one takes the Verses in the New Testament
as Literal; there are many Verses other than Love God Now with
All Your Heart and Your Neighbor as you would Like to be Treated;
Consuming others with no harm; and perhaps the most Gandhi-Like
Platitude of actually Literally Turning the other Cheek if Struck on the
Other Cheek with actual Physical Harm; as yes; that moves to other verses that
dictate not eating with the other 'Sinners' in the Church to Bringing a Sword instead
of Peace, instead of living by one and dying by one; And on to Hating one's Family and
Friends; and yes, Children too, if they disagree with 'Your Loving Tradition'; and even slaying
others if that Verse is taken literally, who disagree with 'Your Loving ways of Being too', with of course
a Loving God that Sentences Folks to Eternal Torture that is the same Jesus who said all that other Flowery
Stuff as the 'Highest Levels' in Platitudes of most books, still today; particularly, turn the other Cheek even more
so than Love Your Enemy for that is what is expected of any Slave to avoid being killed by the Master with Weapon
in Hand of Prison away from Free to do just that. Even, the Word Meek, in original Greek Translation means those who
are Strong enough in self esteem who do not need to prove they are Strong to others by inflicting harm when they
are crossed by 'smaller folks'. True, if you don't engage enemies in a Dual to a Death, Your Percentage of Surviving
And Thriving and even basic Reproducing becomes the common sense and feel way of life to avoid all that
stuff that risks a mortal life. It is possible, to live in an Agape Feel and Sense of Life as Love constantly
now, eternally so, now; if one Masters with Relative Free Will the Regulation of their Emotions and
Integration of their Senses as any ascending transcending and ecstatically experiencing Master
will do; and to be clear, while i have risen up personally, to the fulfillment of doing this; that
doesn't mean Mastering anyone else but my self. And nah; that ain't no easy Feat of
Life for it's taken me well over 5 decades to get to that personal experience of
Love that never ends that yes, literally is better than an orgasm, always
now. Don't even try to imagine it; as i never felt it existed before as
A State of Constant Living Experience, then; and no, this ain't just
a me thingie as it's well documented, cross-culturally for those who
attain this Kind of Love Filled Nirvana and Bliss that is a Kingdom of Heaven within
now where hating an enemy is about as logical as Jumping off a Bridge back somewhere
in grey purgatory sHades below and A best thing is, you don't 'have' to do it, for you are the Master
now of Your Emotions/Senses; and no that doesn't mean you won't fight to the death to save your life
like some slave who would give up his and or her life just 'cause someone in a book 2000 Year ago
said do it; for those who are truly fool enough to believe anything they've heard that doesn't actually
work for them; otherwise, known and not felt and sensed as blind faith that is just another phrase really
for someone who agrees to buy the Used Car with just a promise it will work; instead, of A Guarantee that only
'you', 'the Car', Can and Will Guarantee for yourself. Seriously, what good are any Words if they don't make a Real
Difference in Your Life as far as Empirical Survive and Thrive goes now. Sure, there is blind faith and another verse
about those who see and hear more than words, alone. Anyway, my suggestion is, if you really wanna learn how to
actually Love it all; get rid of the Fear First and then let your Love Flow if you can and will of course; now, to the Definition
of Love and Enemy that is required for there are as many Descriptions of that as there are Books in the World in Potential;
it's impossible to really discuss this to
any real agreement until a Common Definition of
Love and Enemy is agreed upon; Ha! Good Luck on that still;
considering how many different flavors of churches and people
who even go to a church who say Love is God and Jesus too; Ha!
again; that's a nice platitude too; but it doesn't speak well in anything
other than Love to me; and my definition of Love in Essence is over the
Moon and Sun as an Actual Continuous Experience that is all Healing and
Simply Wonderful to be; it's true; you'll never find it fully through anyone else but you.
It's true, a Platitude is meaningless
without the Attitude
within;
Colors of Attitudes
Do Shoot across the Moon
and Sun; and fall beyond the darkest
BLack Abyss of the Ocean As Human Experience now.
Personally, i've explored among the Deepest Depths and
highest Stars of my life; and true, I do not either Hate or
Consider the Bottom of those Depths as anything other than
A Ticket and Passport that brought me to real Heaven now within.
True, after experiencing that; Enemies are not an illusion I make nor is anything
other than
the Reality
of Love that
still may come from
a Yang Splotch of the
other place too, now; No
Light without Dark just Dark without Light;
Really Love yourself and generally speaking
the rest of the Love eventually comes up to speed beyond
Infinity now, which is just another way of saying Science has no current tool
to measure it, now; Including Words and Numbers too. In other words, all this
effort may only be meaningful to me; but true, it is my reality now that is as real as yours.
And while it's possible who ever wrote some of the New Testament Verses may have experienced
this; chances are in a very Malignant Patriarchy, 2000 Years ago or so among Illiterate Aramaic
Speaking folks; chances of someone experiencing something like this is about as great as a
Mosque full of Frowns, 'over there' still these days; and yes any Fundamentalist Church; I've been to
at least; first clue, any discrimination against any Human who is Different; that doesn't exist in Heaven;
not mine at
least but there's
no proof now that
anyone experiences
either Heaven or Hell
or any experience of Life
as Identical; not even Identical
Twins raised in Identical Environments
to the degree that's possible. We interact
in constant flux of change from head to toe
and more with the Environment always now with
mileage always differing now where one person's definition
of Love may be Hate for Another Multi-UniVerse Experience of
life and Enemy as Friend for the Other UniVerse Experience of Life;
but True, what do we have but Tools of Words
And nonverbal Langauge to
reach some kind of
Consensual Reality;
leave any opinion out and
true; that might be the one that
eventually sparks you to a continuous
Orgasm of Life that never ends and is
always colored differently; not too much or
not too little like Waves of Ocean in Balance
with no Concrete Borders of insane hell of same;
the Purpose of Language is to cooperate and survive;
but Poetry; that might just bring you to Heaven now; key word: might.
Okay and as a final exercise here that is what's really missing out in most
Bibles these days still is how does one actually attain this Heaven State of Being
where all is love with no hate or enemies either and hey; sure, if you have to defend
yourself; chances are you won't have to as you exude fearlessness in all you do; Ballet worked
for Muhammad Ali Well enough to successfully float in the ring resting on a natural Force of Chi
out of Fear to Sting when it really counted. I've done an exercise like that now in Public for 9000 miles
as of last night; 3.13.13; as recorded by Nike GPS Sports watch in a little less than 55 Months now; while
my wife says it doesn't change much on the exterior the inner experience is constantly colors of bliss that
bring Laser Focus and Concentration to Write close to 6 Million Words of Long Form; Personal Bible as 'SonG
oF mY SoUL' in what will be 58 months of both endeavors coming on my 58th Birthday on 6.6.18; true, i've made
a Science out of Heaven too; but true too; that will never come in any 'real' Science Study, likely for let's just say
there ain't a big
enough Group to
Study out 'in the wild'
other than Monasteries of
Monks in Mountains and places like that;
sure, while it might be easier achievable somewhere
in the Mountains alone; attaining/maintaining it down from 'the Mountain'
now in Public; that's a real challenge now but worth sharing to me; for trust
me or not; if i could make one teaspoon or a pill now of what i experience as life
to others; Billionaire's would shed their dollars like a plague that peels their Heaven skin off.
They are so far away
from where i am
now; it's
beyond
suffering to
anything i experience now;
Yuck; suffering Billionaires;
And other Last First World Problems;
how the Hell do you Hate someone when
you've already visited Hell and Reap the Rewards of Heaven now.
It doesn't
Happen
when
Real; easy enough
Test that the Entire
New Testament is basically false;
And all those other 'Big Books', too;
Where Punishment is the Reward of Love/God/Nature Real.
(Ludicrous)


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17 Mar 2018, 7:34 pm

Also, this doctrine has become the majority-Christian west's ironic liability, it's having difficult times with fighting against radical Islam growing in certain places.



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17 Mar 2018, 7:48 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
Also, this doctrine has become the majority-Christian west's ironic liability, it's having difficult times with fighting against radical Islam growing in certain places.


The Western upper class (which controls most Western governments) is having difficulty fighting against Islamic extremism because it keeps trying to replace Islamic extremism with globalist hyper-capitalism in the third world. The people of the Middle East are siding with anti-globalisation Islamic paleoconservatives because they don't want to live under a Middle Eastern Pinochet.

Additionally, the US military loves to stomp out democratic socialist organisations in the third world. That's why you almost never hear about democratic socialism in the third world. The US military typically shows up to stomp it out.

The Western masses are having difficulty fighting against Islamic extremism because most of them don't even know that progressive organisations exist in the third world ... and because they trust the US military to do the right thing.

If American gun owners really want to fight against Islamism, they should move to the Middle East and join a far-left organisation there.


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17 Mar 2018, 9:29 pm

Maybe it doesn't mean "love" them, literally (I've often wondered / thought this might be the reason so many Aspies aren't, like, "capable" of believing in God, cuz they take the Bible so literally)----maybe it just means "don't hate anyone". Hating only hurts the person who's hating----the person being hated usually has no idea you hate them, and/or, doesn't care. Also, maybe it just means "be kind to everyone"----again, I feel it does better for our soul, to be kind to as many, as often, as we can (I totally understand it being difficult, at times, though).

I think Mudboy and Sly said it best!!





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