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DarthMetaKnight
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26 Mar 2018, 9:37 pm

When did human ancestors acquire souls?
When does a developing fetus acquire a soul?
Do people with severe brain damage still have souls ... or does the soul exit the body before the body is technically dead?
Would it be possible for future generations to create a machine with a soul?
Do aliens have souls?

Discuss.


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EzraS
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26 Mar 2018, 9:57 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
When did human ancestors acquire souls?


Every human is supposed to have a soul.

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
When does a developing fetus acquire a soul?


It's supposed to occur at the moment of conception.

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Do people with severe brain damage still have souls ... or does the soul exit the body before the body is technically dead?


It's supposed to exit the body when someone is technically dead.

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Would it be possible for future generations to create a machine with a soul?


God is supposed to be the only one who can create a soul.

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Do aliens have souls?


They do if God gave them one.



Lintar
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26 Mar 2018, 9:59 pm

Q1. When Adam and Eve were created.
Q2. At conception.
Q3. Of course people with brain damage have souls.
Q4. No, machines will never have souls. A.I. is a silly technofantasy for atheists.
Q5. Aliens don't exist. If you believe they do then prove it.



aghogday
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27 Mar 2018, 3:00 pm

All Life iS ALL Soul;
Other wise; now,
'IT' Will Be a Machine;
Or perhaps nothing at all.
It all depends on how
one defines Soul; For
me, at least; Soul is Life;
Fearless Unconditional Loving All
NoW And without that Life NoW as
Metaphor or Literal; 'IT' barely exists @All..:)


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Pepe
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27 Mar 2018, 4:15 pm

Where is the evidence of a soul?
Is it simply an intellectual construct?
When did humans develop the capacity to consider the intellectual concept of a soul?

If there were no humans, what would happen to souls if they existed?
If souls exist, would it be considered a moral crime to capture them in human containers?

Could the concept of a soul merely be a manipulative device?
Could the concept of a soul be used as emotional blackmail?
How effective is the concept of a soul in maintaining social order?

Is a soul merely human consciousness?
Is the soul simply a manifestation of the functioning of the brain?
If so, if the brain is damaged, does that damage the soul?
Does the soul have its own personal independent personality?
If so, why can a person's personality change as a result of brain trauma?

Is it possible to exist without a soul?
Do psychopaths have a soul?
Does not having a soul constitute evil?
Does Angel truly have a soul? :mrgreen:


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Last edited by Pepe on 27 Mar 2018, 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pepe
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27 Mar 2018, 4:18 pm

Lintar wrote:
Q5. Aliens don't exist. If you believe they do then prove it.

God doesn't exist. If you believe he/she/it does then prove it. :mrgreen:


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Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Hate me for who I am...Not for who you think I am..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


Pepe
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27 Mar 2018, 4:33 pm

EzraS wrote:

Every human is supposed to have a soul.


EzraS wrote:
It's supposed to occur at the moment of conception.


EzraS wrote:
It's supposed to exit the body when someone is technically dead.

EzraS wrote:
God is supposed to be the only one who can create a soul.

EzraS wrote:
They do if God gave them one.


Where are these ideas "supposed to" have come from?
Were they not simply taught to children?
What if humans never developed the ability to communicate concepts to their offspring?
How could religious memes be disseminated?
Quote:
Language deprivation experiments have been attempted several times through history, isolating infants from the normal use of spoken or signed language in an attempt to discover the fundamental character of human nature or the origin of language.
In history

Ancient records suggest that this kind of experiment was carried out from time to time. An early record of an experiment of this kind can be found in Herodotus's Histories. According to Herodotus, the Egyptian pharaoh Psamtik I carried out such an experiment, and concluded the Phrygian race must antedate the Egyptians since the child had first spoken something similar to the Phrygian word bekos, meaning "bread".[2] However, it is likely that this was a willful interpretation of their babbling.[3][4]

An experiment allegedly carried out by Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II in the 13th century saw young infants raised without human interaction in an attempt to determine if there was a natural language that they might demonstrate once their voices matured. It is claimed he was seeking to discover what language would have been imparted unto Adam and Eve by God.

The experiments were recorded by the monk Salimbene di Adam in his Chronicles, who wrote that Frederick encouraged "foster-mothers and nurses to suckle and bathe and wash the children, but in no ways to prattle or speak with them; for he would have learnt whether they would speak the Hebrew language (which he took to have been the first), or Greek, or Latin, or Arabic, or perchance the tongue of their parents of whom they had been born. But he laboured in vain, for the children could not live without clappings of the hands, and gestures, and gladness of countenance, and blandishments."[5]

Several centuries after Frederick II's experiment, James IV of Scotland was said to have sent two children to be raised by a mute woman isolated on the island of Inchkeith, to determine if language was learned or innate.[6] The children were reported to have spoken good Hebrew, but historians were skeptical of these claims soon after they were made.[7][8] This experiment was later repeated by the Mughal emperor Akbar, who held that speech arose from hearing, thus children raised without hearing human speech would become mute.[9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_ ... xperiments


Aren't humans truly beautiful creatures? :mrgreen:


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Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Hate me for who I am...Not for who you think I am..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


Last edited by Pepe on 27 Mar 2018, 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Spiderpig
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27 Mar 2018, 4:39 pm

Is the soul greater than the hum of its parts?


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dragonsanddemons
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27 Mar 2018, 5:04 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
When did human ancestors acquire souls?
When does a developing fetus acquire a soul?
Do people with severe brain damage still have souls ... or does the soul exit the body before the body is technically dead?
Would it be possible for future generations to create a machine with a soul?
Do aliens have souls?

Discuss.


Here's what I believe...

Humans have always had souls. I believe animals have souls as well. Possibly plants as well, and perhaps even microorganisms - I'm not certain about those, though. It wouldn't surprise me if every living thing has a soul. I just think some creatures have more complex souls than others, just like some animals have more complex brains, bodies, etc. than others.

I'm not sure at what point a developing fetus acquires a soul.

I do believe people with severe brain damage, or even who are brain-dead, have souls. At that point, the soul would be trapped in the body unable to do anything.

I don't think humans can give machines a true soul, although machines might be able to mimic a creature that has a soul enough so that it would seem to have one. Souls aren't man-made. I can't say for absolute certain that they can never be, but I doubt it.

I can't see any reason why aliens wouldn't have souls, although again I can't say for certain on that.


Note: I don't have any proof for any of this, but I also don't have proof against it.


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Spiderpig
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27 Mar 2018, 5:19 pm

dragonsanddemons wrote:
I'm not sure at what point a developing fetus acquires a soul.


Do you have any idea about how it acquires one?

dragonsanddemons wrote:
I do believe people with severe brain damage, or even who are brain-dead, have souls. At that point, the soul would be trapped in the body unable to do anything.


Then, what does it take for the soul finally to leave the body?

dragonsanddemons wrote:
I don't think humans can give machines a true soul, although machines might be able to mimic a creature that has a soul enough so that it would seem to have one. Souls aren't man-made. I can't say for absolute certain that they can never be, but I doubt it.


Assuming your beliefs are true, how would you tell some apparently normal humans aren’t also “faking” a soul?

Would their lack of a “true” soul warrant treating them like machines?

dragonsanddemons wrote:
Note: I don't have any proof for any of this, but I also don't have proof against it.


But we can always at least explore the logical consequences of a belief system, to see if it contradicts itself.


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SabbraCadabra
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27 Mar 2018, 5:21 pm

I had a vision once that every time one copulates, all of the nearby spirits gather around, hoping for conception, so that they can compete to win control of this new life and be reborn.

:oops:


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dragonsanddemons
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27 Mar 2018, 5:41 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
dragonsanddemons wrote:
I'm not sure at what point a developing fetus acquires a soul.


Do you have any idea about how it acquires one?


I do believe in some sort of god, but not really the same as the God most Catholics/Christians believe in, and that would probably be where souls come from. But I'm currently in the process of figuring out my true religious/spiritual beliefs - I don't really have a solid grasp on a lot of what I do or don't believe at the moment.

Spiderpig wrote:
dragonsanddemons wrote:
I do believe people with severe brain damage, or even who are brain-dead, have souls. At that point, the soul would be trapped in the body unable to do anything.


Then, what does it take for the soul finally to leave the body?


I believe the soul leaves the body upon physical death - that death is the separation of the soul from the body.

Spiderpig wrote:
dragonsanddemons wrote:
I don't think humans can give machines a true soul, although machines might be able to mimic a creature that has a soul enough so that it would seem to have one. Souls aren't man-made. I can't say for absolute certain that they can never be, but I doubt it.


Assuming your beliefs are true, how would you tell some apparently normal humans aren’t also “faking” a soul?

Would their lack of a “true” soul warrant treating them like machines?


Well, I admit I don't really know how one would be able to tell that. I'm inclined to believe, though, that the presence of a soul is what separates a living thing from a nonliving thing. I haven't really thought about whether it would be morally acceptable to treat a soulless human, if such a thing exists, as a machine or some other nonliving thing, or not. Looking at it strictly from this standpoint, I suppose if they for sure didn't have any sort of soul, there wouldn't be anything morally wrong with it. But maybe they would still have some sort of consciousness, which would complicate that issue. And certainly if they could still feel pain, it wouldn't be morally right to deliberately inflict it on them without a very good reason.

Spiderpig wrote:
dragonsanddemons wrote:
Note: I don't have any proof for any of this, but I also don't have proof against it.


But we can always at least explore the logical consequences of a belief system, to see if it contradicts itself.


Sure :) It might even help me figure out what I really do or don't believe.


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27 Mar 2018, 5:47 pm

SabbraCadabra wrote:
I had a vision once that every time one copulates, all of the nearby spirits gather around, hoping for conception, so that they can compete to win control of this new life and be reborn.


Well, how many spirits are there? If there’s a finite number of them and we keep cranking up the world’s population, they should run out eventually. What will happen then? Will some humans be born soulless?


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Pepe
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27 Mar 2018, 5:51 pm

dragonsanddemons wrote:

Here's what I believe...

Humans have always had souls. I believe animals have souls as well. Possibly plants as well, and perhaps even microorganisms - I'm not certain about those, though. It wouldn't surprise me if every living thing has a soul. I just think some creatures have more complex souls than others, just like some animals have more complex brains, bodies, etc. than others.


Could you define what *you* think a soul is?
And could you explain what it is good for?

SabbraCadabra wrote:
so that they can compete to win control of this new life and be reborn.

:oops:


Why would they want to?
What is so special about this life system?

Spiderpig wrote:
Is the soul greater than the hum of its parts?


And why does it "hum" in the first place?
Is it because it doesn't know the lyrics?... :mrgreen:


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Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Hate me for who I am...Not for who you think I am..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


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27 Mar 2018, 6:01 pm

Pepe wrote:
dragonsanddemons wrote:

Here's what I believe...

Humans have always had souls. I believe animals have souls as well. Possibly plants as well, and perhaps even microorganisms - I'm not certain about those, though. It wouldn't surprise me if every living thing has a soul. I just think some creatures have more complex souls than others, just like some animals have more complex brains, bodies, etc. than others.


Could you define what *you* think a soul is?
And could you explain what it is good for?


I guess the best definition I can come up with for a soul is the life force of a creature - which I guess would mean that everything that's living has a soul by that definition. And if that's the case, I would be more inclined to ask what the body is good for - why are souls placed in bodies? That, I don't have an answer for. Nor do I have a definitive answer as to what happens to the soul after death, besides that it leaves the body (But does it disappear? Does it stay on Earth? Does it go somewhere else? That, I don't know.). Sorry, like I mentioned before, I'm still trying to figure out exactly what I believe.


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-H. P. Lovecraft, "The Outsider"