Some questions for Incels after the Toronto van attack

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goldfish21
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29 Apr 2018, 3:20 pm

Read this the other day:

https://mic.com/articles/189074/the-mea ... .ybZxcXnXY

I've never seen or heard of an Incel website/forum before, so didn't realize that was even a thing. (But I guess there's an online community for everything now) This article makes it sound like it's a fairly sizeable movement of angry people - but that's probably just news media sensationalism, as there are TONS of Incel men in the world and very little violence I've heard of being attributed to it. If it was a really big problem you'd think we'd hear about it from places like China where there are many more single men who never date/marry due to their population distribution.

A search for Incel on FB yields a bunch of recent articles about the van attack, but also FB groups (with rebellious names like Incel Liberation Army etc) & even an "Incel Tourism" page. I guess it's a bigger part of society than I'd have ever imagined. https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=incel

Anyways, I'm just curious for those on this site that identify as such if you may be able to shed a little light on whether this is even a thing that anyone should be concerned about? (violent rebellion movement stuff) Or is this just a one off extremist who lost his s**t & is about on par with blaming Autism for crimes whenever someone on the spectrum commits one?


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Chronos
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29 Apr 2018, 9:21 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Read this the other day:

https://mic.com/articles/189074/the-mea ... .ybZxcXnXY

I've never seen or heard of an Incel website/forum before, so didn't realize that was even a thing. (But I guess there's an online community for everything now) This article makes it sound like it's a fairly sizeable movement of angry people - but that's probably just news media sensationalism, as there are TONS of Incel men in the world and very little violence I've heard of being attributed to it. If it was a really big problem you'd think we'd hear about it from places like China where there are many more single men who never date/marry due to their population distribution.

A search for Incel on FB yields a bunch of recent articles about the van attack, but also FB groups (with rebellious names like Incel Liberation Army etc) & even an "Incel Tourism" page. I guess it's a bigger part of society than I'd have ever imagined. https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=incel

Anyways, I'm just curious for those on this site that identify as such if you may be able to shed a little light on whether this is even a thing that anyone should be concerned about? (violent rebellion movement stuff) Or is this just a one off extremist who lost his s**t & is about on par with blaming Autism for crimes whenever someone on the spectrum commits one?


I am obviously not affiliated with such a movement but there are a number on incel and similar groups and they have a non negligible following. However they are outnumbered by men with healthier perspectives on life.

I recommend not looking them up for the following reason.

They have a strong presence on the internet such that looking them up instantly causes marketing bots to direct related content to you in significant numbers, making their presence seem much bigger than it actually is. You will not only have to clear your browser history, cache, and cookies to stop it, but any search engine search histories and opt out of directed marketing with your internet service provider.

Then, because it will take a while for marketing bots to forget you, you will have to direct their attention to other things by looking up entirely unrelated things.

The internet makes things with a lot of net presence look bigger than they really are. If I looked up neo nazis it would have me thinking I was in z
Germany during the rise of the third reich.



Hollywood_Guy
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29 Apr 2018, 9:47 pm

It's more like a first world/western problem I guess.

And even though we all understand that extreme terrorism and violence is never good, these are men (or maybe sometimes even women) who feel emotionally/socially disenfranchised. Some on here have displayed this already and the only thing they receive from it is "disrespecting/hating all women" or just general arguments. I know some of the things they say might sound awful, but that's not really the same thing as acting out on violence or that you really hate the opposite gender. What is really so controversial about wanting a partner or having a deep emotional sentiment? Where is "hate" in that?

I think that while this sort of terrorist violence should be condemned, society sometimes needs to be capable of re-examining it's priorities and values. Of course, we shouldn't be negotiating or apologizing for every act of extremist violence, but trying to identify with these people's issues makes a good start in these situations.

I'm resting the case here.



lostonearth35
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29 Apr 2018, 9:47 pm

I not only think we should be very concerned about it, but I'm very concerned about someone who is even curious about it, because how do I not know they secretly want to join it and possibly commit murder themselves?



goldfish21
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29 Apr 2018, 9:50 pm

^^ Fair. Like I said, it's probably just media sensationalism and one unhinged person who did this thing vs. hordes of angry men about to commit murder because they're angry at the world for their problems in life. It's fine to be angry at the world if that's therapeutic for you, but totally not fine to go killin' folks who have exactly zero influence on your life or your problems. Always so strange when people murder random others because they're mad about something. At least when people get killed who have done some serious harm to the killer it makes a little more sense why they did it.


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goldfish21
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29 Apr 2018, 9:51 pm

lostonearth35 wrote:
I not only think we should be very concerned about it, but I'm very concerned about someone who is even curious about it, because how do I not know they secretly want to join it and possibly commit murder themselves?


Join what? :? Is this some new murderer club?

I thought from the title of the groups it's just a bunch of people who have being involuntarily celibate in common.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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30 Apr 2018, 1:49 am

I never heard of it before, ironically I think this van guy has succeeded in his "goal" to make his ideas known to the world.

And like how many now associate anything Arabic to terrorism (only from the Westerners though, I never got such sentiments from Asians or Africans), now the common people are associating male celibacy(In this instance, the common Western - because I have never sense seen such association in the East) , and worse even the "nerdy and geeky personality" to mass murder and misogynist manifestos. I am not talking even about members in online 'incel boards' but just any single guy who's struggling in getting relationship.

Such hyperbolic associations are not uncommon among people, we have seen it a lot in history. Like the anti-Japanese sentiments in the US during WWII that affected not only American Japaneses, but any Asian ethnicity who were ironically originally from countries struggling against the imperial Japan.



It's like I pointed in the other thread:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
The title on the independent is loaded:

Quote:
How long can the basement-dwelling dregs of the internet be ignored as sex-hungry nerds when between Rodger and and Minassian, 16 people have been killed?


https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/al ... 21711.html

The word 'Nerds' is what caught me, were Rodger and Minassian "nerds"? What did both study, something in science or IT?


As you see, the writer immediately created a new association in that article between "Nerd", "basement dweller", and mass murderers.
(And I bet there will be racist association somewhere in some white feminist boards since those two mass murderers happen to be from racial minorities).

So yeah, the association has already been made.


What's funny though, that over 50% and in other stats even over 70% of violence against women in this world (including murder) are done by men in relationships (their spouses or their exes) - and no one seems to quickly associate married men & boyfriends to violence :).



SabbraCadabra
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30 Apr 2018, 8:28 am

I've never even heard of Incels before and I have no idea what it has to do with "Love and Dating"... :?


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The_Face_of_Boo
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30 Apr 2018, 8:42 am

SabbraCadabra wrote:
I've never even heard of Incels before and I have no idea what it has to do with "Love and Dating"... :?


You, sly, Marknis, Spiderpig, Grand inquistor, SabreClaw...etc.. .you are all now suspects of incel terrorism.



Arniel
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30 Apr 2018, 8:46 am

The gradual dissolution of monogamous traditions means that a smaller number of men will have sex with multiple women, while at the same there is an increasing amount of lonely men. This is because men tend to want to have sex with anyone remotely attractive while women tend to be a lot more picky for obvious evolutionary reasons.

Violent incelism is not a modern phenomenon. A major reason why monogamy was instated in the first place was to upkeep order. Lonely and therefore discontent men will always create trouble, it's just a new incarnation of the same phenomenon.

Luckily we live in a time where vr and sex robots will soon be a thing, which means that women's freedoms will not have to be sacrificed for order, granted that these technologies become advanced enough.



The_Face_of_Boo
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30 Apr 2018, 8:55 am

Arniel wrote:
The gradual dissolution of monogamous traditions means that a smaller number of men will have sex with multiple women, while at the same there is an increasing amount of lonely men. This is because men tend to want to have sex with anyone remotely attractive while women tend to be a lot more picky for obvious evolutionary reasons.

Violent incelism is not a modern phenomenon. A major reason why monogamy was instated in the first place was to upkeep order. Lonely and therefore discontent men will always create trouble, it's just a new incarnation of the same phenomenon.

Luckily we live in a time where vr and sex robots will soon be a thing, which means that women's freedoms will not have to be sacrificed for order, granted that these technologies become advanced enough.


Human birth's sex ratio often favor males in most populations, my theory that, from evolutionary perspective, this ratio was supposed to be evolutionary advantageous to compensate male mortality, weaker males were more often to die earlier (ie. you're much more likely to be killed by an angry mammoth you're trying to hunt, than to be killed by some snake while gathering berries).
But males are surviving better these days and it's something new - hence why the male surplus.


According to this site:

Quote:
Men now outnumber women on the planet by 66 million, the highest ever recorded. Preference for sons in India and China is driving the trend, but those two countries are not the only ones struggling with an imbalanced population. Here's a look at five decades of data:


66 million guys.... 66 million! So if all these gather together they can literally found and build a male-only nation!

Quote:
In 1960, 50% of the global population were women. 89 countries had a majority of women, 51 countries had a majority of men, 51 were within 0.5% of gender parity.


Quote:
in 2015 , 49.55% of the global population were women. 81 countries had a majority of women, 36 countries had a majority of men, 75 were within 0.5% of gender parity.



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30 Apr 2018, 9:25 am

Basically, these are people who don't get out in the world, and don't hang out with real people.

The less we talk about them, the better, frankly.

Be wary----but don't give them a platform.

They thrive on the attention. They thrive on people fearing them.



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30 Apr 2018, 9:36 am

goldfish21 wrote:
Anyways, I'm just curious for those on this site that identify as such if you may be able to shed a little light on whether this is even a thing that anyone should be concerned about? (violent rebellion movement stuff) Or is this just a one off extremist who lost his s**t & is about on par with blaming Autism for crimes whenever someone on the spectrum commits one?


These days, everything seems to be about what you “identify” as, but it doesn’t really matter if I want the incel label and what it’s come to be associated with—it is a fact that I’m celibate and that I’d like not to be, so there’s no way around my involuntarily celibate status.

I first found the term incel a lot of years ago, on a website much like this, for talking about individual challenges and what to do about them. It seemed peaceful enough and with no connection to the manosphere. In fact, there were a few female incels, and noöne seemed to hate them.

I had no idea there was such thing as incel terrorism till I read about it here. Apparently we didn’t have enough problems as it was, and now everyone has a reason to be actively hostile to us.


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Last edited by Spiderpig on 30 Apr 2018, 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

SabbraCadabra
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30 Apr 2018, 9:41 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
You, sly, Marknis, Spiderpig, Grand inquistor, SabreClaw...etc.. .you are all now suspects of incel terrorism.

Oh trust me, I'm not an incel 8)

Even if I was, it's voluntary at the moment, because I don't feel like dating. And I'm demisexual, so casual encounters or FWB is out of the question.


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kraftiekortie
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30 Apr 2018, 9:48 am

I was involuntarily celibate for quite a while in my teens. And at times in my 20's, too.

I never thought about killing anybody because of it.

It's because we give them a platform----and thus credibility.

We just have to stop listening to idiots who would espouse violence just because they can't get a date.

I was bullied, too. Sometimes rather severely. I never thought about shooting up a school.

Enough already with all this garbage/rubbish!! !