The Palestinians were the "original Canaanites"

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Kraichgauer
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17 May 2018, 9:08 pm

I believe that God calling for ethnic cleansing in the Old Testament had more to do with justifying genocide after the fact than with anything God actually wanted. And by all evidence, the Hebrews were themselves a Canaanite people who ended up absorbing many of the other Canaanites.


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17 May 2018, 9:34 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I believe that God calling for ethnic cleansing in the Old Testament had more to do with justifying genocide after the fact than with anything God actually wanted. And by all evidence, the Hebrews were themselves a Canaanite people who ended up absorbing many of the other Canaanites.


Do you think itsael should just disarm and let the Muslims slaughter them by the millions ?
Wouldn’t you want our government to attack people who attacked us? Look how we acted after 9/11 imaging such attacks on a weekly basis



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17 May 2018, 9:41 pm

sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I believe that God calling for ethnic cleansing in the Old Testament had more to do with justifying genocide after the fact than with anything God actually wanted. And by all evidence, the Hebrews were themselves a Canaanite people who ended up absorbing many of the other Canaanites.


Do you think itsael should just disarm and let the Muslims slaughter them by the millions ?
Wouldn’t you want our government to attack people who attacked us? Look how we acted after 9/11 imaging such attacks on a weekly basis


When did I say anything like that?


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17 May 2018, 11:24 pm

AngelRho wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Where does the Bible say the Israelites totally wiped out the Canaanites?



The verse is mentioned in that article:

https://www.knowingthebible.net/the-ext ... canaanites

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don ... t_1382.cfm


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/scie ... 62936.html

I pretty much agree with the first two articles. I’d like more clarification on the concept of generational sin, though. The law says that you cannot be punished for what a family member does. But it’s also an unfortunate reality that children have to deal with the consequences of their parents’ actions.

The main problem, though, is the first two articles deal only with the order to destroy the Canaanites, not what the Israelites actually did. The Israelites made peace with some Canaanites, some Canaanites fled to neighboring countries, or the Israelites just gave up. Joshua got rid of the Canaanites where he went, but he couldn’t cover all of Israel in his lifetime. God even said some would be allowed to live to keep wild animals under control until the Israelites were able to move into those areas.

We know that remnants of Canaanites were in Israel late into Saul’s reign. David led a policy of wrapping up unfinished business. Solomon’s foreign policy effectively brought them all back in. Rehoboam alienates the northern tribes and split the nation. Israel largely abandoned YHWH worship while Judah only sporadically obeyed the Law depending on the king.

They never completely finished the job, which is covered in the Bible. So...yeah, this isn’t a surprise to me. If anything, the article that supposedly proves the Bible wrong actually helps confirm what we already know from the Bible.

This is romper room stuff. It’s an example of quoting scripture out of order and context. Nothing interesting to see here...



You realize that the Bible was written by fanatic enemies of the Canaanites, right? So not everything is written about them there may be accurate.

It seems to me the bible-sympathizer authors are just trying to justify the clear ethnic cleansing call in the bible by claiming how “unclean” their divine enemies were.

This is pretty much how Muslims justify Mohammad’s jihad against pagan Arabs; Muslims claim that pagan Arabs were very sexual, sodoms, used to burry girls alive, and illeterate; all on unfounded grounds though.

You are ASSUMING they were fanatics. That is not a reasonable position.



Do you really believe that sane people would write about a holy ethnic cleansing of an entire people? The bible contains a bloody manifesto. Judaism probably started as a fanatic El-worshiping Canaanite cult. https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/.pr ... -1.5392677

Early Judaism was a Monolatristic faith - not a monotheist faith - meaning it was about worshiping of one god but admitting the existence of other gods yet hating them all.

Your source is biased. Besides, I can’t read that. It’s covered up with some subscribe notice, and I have no interest in yet another internet account or something else I have to pay for.




I could read it just fine and I am no subscriber to it - haaretz is an Israeli newspapers, so how it would be biased regarding the Old Testament? Unless you mean the author is probably an atheist. And how did you know it's biased without reading it?


Quote:
Anyway...where do you find this supposed “bloody manifesto”?


The god's call for the Israelites to slaughter Canaanites for example? What would you call that?

I could read the headline and part of the first paragraph. “How the Jews invented God, and made him great.” The writer is biased against the actual existence of God. That’s all I need to know.

And how is that a bloody manifesto? The Canaanites had sunk so far deep into sin they no longer had any redeeming qualities. It was so ingrained into their society that to try to assimilate into an Israelite theocracy would have meant either their destruction or the destruction of the Chosen.

And where is it written that the Canaanites didn’t have any choice in the matter? God went before the Israelites to drive them out, basically deporting them to seek asylum in neighboring countries. Jericho had long been aware of Israelite presence and their intentions, so it’s reasonable to conclude that some might have chosen to leave. Others attempted to make peace with the Israelites, such as Rahab and her family. The order went out to destroy the remnants, but God extended His mercies all the way to the end.

These days people put so much stock in God’s love and mercy that they forget that withholding justice is neither loving nor merciful. God repeatedly displays His patience. Human beings are prone to crossing points of no return, and I think that’s when you see God’s vengeance on display. When it happens, it happens quickly.

It’s also limited. When the Canaanites were dispossessed, Israel did not expand their borders or conquer new territory.

And I also think you have to take into account what the Canaanites were doing that angered God so much in the first place. Child sacrifice. Ritual prostitution. Bestiality. Incest. Those kinds of things and more were just another day. Israel was called to put a quick end to it.




In other term, you really believe in this sh!t.



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17 May 2018, 11:27 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I believe that God calling for ethnic cleansing in the Old Testament had more to do with justifying genocide after the fact than with anything God actually wanted. And by all evidence, the Hebrews were themselves a Canaanite people who ended up absorbing many of the other Canaanites.



The commands about the ethnic cleansing were clear.

This just like saying that Hilter wasn’t so bad because he left some Jews in Germany alive...what? And oh Nazis were Germans themselves.



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17 May 2018, 11:38 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I believe that God calling for ethnic cleansing in the Old Testament had more to do with justifying genocide after the fact than with anything God actually wanted. And by all evidence, the Hebrews were themselves a Canaanite people who ended up absorbing many of the other Canaanites.



The commands about the ethnic cleansing were clear.

This just like saying that Hilter wasn’t so bad because he left some Jews in Germany alive...what? And oh Nazis were Germans themselves.


I believe that OT prophets and kings used God as a pretext to commit mass murder, rationalizing their actions with God's will. I find it hard reconcile the OT God with the God with a human face and nature dying on the cross to redeem all humanity.


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18 May 2018, 12:13 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I believe that God calling for ethnic cleansing in the Old Testament had more to do with justifying genocide after the fact than with anything God actually wanted. And by all evidence, the Hebrews were themselves a Canaanite people who ended up absorbing many of the other Canaanites.



The commands about the ethnic cleansing were clear.

This just like saying that Hilter wasn’t so bad because he left some Jews in Germany alive...what? And oh Nazis were Germans themselves.


I believe that OT prophets and kings used God as a pretext to commit mass murder, rationalizing their actions with God's will. I find it hard reconcile the OT God with the God with a human face and nature dying on the cross to redeem all humanity.


But in Christianity, Jesus IS the son of the OT God - or the same entity.
Isn’t the whole concept of the divine Jesus is for God to experience what means to be human? I recall from Christian literature he was even tempted to commit sin.

Secularly speaking, Christianity was a reformation movement of Judaism; none of you Christians today live by Jewish laws; even when it comes to food on your table: You eat everything, you eat pork, you don’t practice kosher, you have no dietary restrictions at all.
All other ild Jewish laws been ditched too from the Christian life; for the better actually.

Then came Mohammad, who grew up in a Messianic non-trinitarian cult that didn’t abandon their Jewish practices - Mohammad’s claimed goal was to bring back the “original religion” and the “original God’s laws” ... in other term the OT faith with some update. This is a central point in the islamic faith.



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18 May 2018, 1:02 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I believe that God calling for ethnic cleansing in the Old Testament had more to do with justifying genocide after the fact than with anything God actually wanted. And by all evidence, the Hebrews were themselves a Canaanite people who ended up absorbing many of the other Canaanites.



The commands about the ethnic cleansing were clear.

This just like saying that Hilter wasn’t so bad because he left some Jews in Germany alive...what? And oh Nazis were Germans themselves.


I believe that OT prophets and kings used God as a pretext to commit mass murder, rationalizing their actions with God's will. I find it hard reconcile the OT God with the God with a human face and nature dying on the cross to redeem all humanity.


But in Christianity, Jesus IS the son of the OT God - or the same entity.
Isn’t the whole concept of the divine Jesus is for God to experience what means to be human? I recall from Christian literature he was even tempted to commit sin.

Secularly speaking, Christianity was a reformation movement of Judaism; none of you Christians today live by Jewish laws; even when it comes to food on your table: You eat everything, you eat pork, you don’t practice kosher, you have no dietary restrictions at all.
All other ild Jewish laws been ditched too from the Christian life; for the better actually.

Then came Mohammad, who grew up in a Messianic non-trinitarian cult that didn’t abandon their Jewish practices - Mohammad’s claimed goal was to bring back the “original religion” and the “original God’s laws” ... in other term the OT faith with some update. This is a central point in the islamic faith.


Yes, we Christians believe that Christ was both God's son, and also God, as is the Holy Spirit. I can't speak for other believers, but I was raised to believe that revelations of God and his will were a gradual thing, till he revealed his will completely while wearing a human face.
And yes, we believe Christ was not only God, but was also fully human both physically and with a human nature.


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18 May 2018, 1:16 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I believe that God calling for ethnic cleansing in the Old Testament had more to do with justifying genocide after the fact than with anything God actually wanted. And by all evidence, the Hebrews were themselves a Canaanite people who ended up absorbing many of the other Canaanites.



The commands about the ethnic cleansing were clear.

This just like saying that Hilter wasn’t so bad because he left some Jews in Germany alive...what? And oh Nazis were Germans themselves.


I believe that OT prophets and kings used God as a pretext to commit mass murder, rationalizing their actions with God's will. I find it hard reconcile the OT God with the God with a human face and nature dying on the cross to redeem all humanity.


But in Christianity, Jesus IS the son of the OT God - or the same entity.
Isn’t the whole concept of the divine Jesus is for God to experience what means to be human? I recall from Christian literature he was even tempted to commit sin.

Secularly speaking, Christianity was a reformation movement of Judaism; none of you Christians today live by Jewish laws; even when it comes to food on your table: You eat everything, you eat pork, you don’t practice kosher, you have no dietary restrictions at all.
All other ild Jewish laws been ditched too from the Christian life; for the better actually.

Then came Mohammad, who grew up in a Messianic non-trinitarian cult that didn’t abandon their Jewish practices - Mohammad’s claimed goal was to bring back the “original religion” and the “original God’s laws” ... in other term the OT faith with some update. This is a central point in the islamic faith.


Yes, we Christians believe that Christ was both God's son, and also God, as is the Holy Spirit. I can't speak for other believers, but I was raised to believe that revelations of God and his will were a gradual thing, till he revealed his will completely while wearing a human face.
And yes, we believe Christ was not only God, but was also fully human both physically and with a human nature.


But if you look today at a devout Jew and at a devout Christian, their daily lifestyles don't have any resemblance anymore. Fundie or even devout Muslim and Jews are by far more similar to each other.

Christianity deviated so far from Judaism to the point that only the OT is what they have in common today - Christianity was not just an 'update' of Judaism but a total reengineering of an existing religion. The Christian Orthodoxes/Catholics (Originally one church - just politically divided) only read the OT for 'historical' reference but they mainly live by the NT only - not by the OT - Protestant faith on the other hand attempted to 'bring back' some 'OT values' into their lives - with some denomination variances.

Islam 'brought back' the 'OT values' (in its own version) at full scale - at least this what Muslims believe (but they refer to the 'true' OT and they consider the today's OT is modified- also Muslims only believe in the Gospel that deny Jesus' divinity - such as the ebionite Gospel).



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18 May 2018, 1:24 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I believe that God calling for ethnic cleansing in the Old Testament had more to do with justifying genocide after the fact than with anything God actually wanted. And by all evidence, the Hebrews were themselves a Canaanite people who ended up absorbing many of the other Canaanites.



The commands about the ethnic cleansing were clear.

This just like saying that Hilter wasn’t so bad because he left some Jews in Germany alive...what? And oh Nazis were Germans themselves.


I believe that OT prophets and kings used God as a pretext to commit mass murder, rationalizing their actions with God's will. I find it hard reconcile the OT God with the God with a human face and nature dying on the cross to redeem all humanity.


But in Christianity, Jesus IS the son of the OT God - or the same entity.
Isn’t the whole concept of the divine Jesus is for God to experience what means to be human? I recall from Christian literature he was even tempted to commit sin.

Secularly speaking, Christianity was a reformation movement of Judaism; none of you Christians today live by Jewish laws; even when it comes to food on your table: You eat everything, you eat pork, you don’t practice kosher, you have no dietary restrictions at all.
All other ild Jewish laws been ditched too from the Christian life; for the better actually.

Then came Mohammad, who grew up in a Messianic non-trinitarian cult that didn’t abandon their Jewish practices - Mohammad’s claimed goal was to bring back the “original religion” and the “original God’s laws” ... in other term the OT faith with some update. This is a central point in the islamic faith.


Yes, we Christians believe that Christ was both God's son, and also God, as is the Holy Spirit. I can't speak for other believers, but I was raised to believe that revelations of God and his will were a gradual thing, till he revealed his will completely while wearing a human face.
And yes, we believe Christ was not only God, but was also fully human both physically and with a human nature.


But if you look today at a devout Jew and at a devout Christian, their daily lifestyles don't have any resemblance anymore. Fundie or even devout Muslim and Jews are by far more similar to each other.

Christianity deviated so far from Judaism to the point that only the OT is what they have in common today - Christianity was not just an 'update' of Judaism but a total reengineering of an existing religion. The Christian Orthodoxes/Catholics (Originally one church - just politically divided) only read the OT for 'historical' reference but they mainly live by the NT only - not by the OT - Protestant faith on the other hand attempted to 'bring back' some 'OT values' into their lives - with some denomination variances.

Islam 'brought back' the 'OT values' (in its own version) at full scale - at least this what Muslims believe (but they refer to the 'true' OT and they consider the today's OT is modified- also Muslims only believe in the Gospel that deny Jesus' divinity - such as the ebionite Gospel).


I've heard that Judaism and Islam bare a certain resemblance.


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18 May 2018, 2:20 am

sly279 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
sly279 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
It just wasn't a smart move from the standpoint of the potential for a lasting peace in the Middle East.

It just about destroys the possibility of it ever happening. The Muslims see this as a grievous insult to them.

I'm a Jew. I have no objection to Israel. But the Palestinians should be heard too.

There should be two equal states in the area, in my opinion.


How do you make peace with a side who’s goal is to kill all the other side?
There will never be peace in the Middle East when they aren’t killing non Muslim they killing Muslims of a slightly different belief. There’s never been peace in the Middle East and never will be.


It's funny you frame this as Muslim vs. non-Muslim; you're aware that Palestinian Christians are just as supportive of Palestinian nationalism as Palestinian Muslims are, right?

Israel Muslims support Israel. Maybe if they gave up on taking the city back and stopped lobbying mussels and doing suicide attacks there’d be peace.
If you lived in Israel constantly under attack you’d have a different opinion. You like people telling England to stop attacking the Germans during the longing bombings.
Or what if we just left Isis alone surely they’d stop attacking us if we just completely withdrew all military from Middle East and let them have it. No they goal is to kill all non Muslims yiu can’t make peace with people who’s sole goal is to kill you.

Other Muslim nations who work with irsael don’t seem to care and I’m sure a lot of Muslims don’t care or support Israel. Sorry but if Canada started lobbing missies on my city every week I’d be calling for their invasion and to topple Canada


There's actually a degree of common sense in what you say, "you can’t make peace with people who’s sole goal is to kill you."

And as long as the pro-ethnic cleansing faction run Israel, Palestinians must understand there is no possibility for peace and resistance, up to and including armed, violent resistance is absolutely justified. :wink:


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18 May 2018, 2:45 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I believe that God calling for ethnic cleansing in the Old Testament had more to do with justifying genocide after the fact than with anything God actually wanted. And by all evidence, the Hebrews were themselves a Canaanite people who ended up absorbing many of the other Canaanites.



The commands about the ethnic cleansing were clear.

This just like saying that Hilter wasn’t so bad because he left some Jews in Germany alive...what? And oh Nazis were Germans themselves.


I believe that OT prophets and kings used God as a pretext to commit mass murder, rationalizing their actions with God's will. I find it hard reconcile the OT God with the God with a human face and nature dying on the cross to redeem all humanity.


But in Christianity, Jesus IS the son of the OT God - or the same entity.
Isn’t the whole concept of the divine Jesus is for God to experience what means to be human? I recall from Christian literature he was even tempted to commit sin.

Secularly speaking, Christianity was a reformation movement of Judaism; none of you Christians today live by Jewish laws; even when it comes to food on your table: You eat everything, you eat pork, you don’t practice kosher, you have no dietary restrictions at all.
All other ild Jewish laws been ditched too from the Christian life; for the better actually.

Then came Mohammad, who grew up in a Messianic non-trinitarian cult that didn’t abandon their Jewish practices - Mohammad’s claimed goal was to bring back the “original religion” and the “original God’s laws” ... in other term the OT faith with some update. This is a central point in the islamic faith.


Yes, we Christians believe that Christ was both God's son, and also God, as is the Holy Spirit. I can't speak for other believers, but I was raised to believe that revelations of God and his will were a gradual thing, till he revealed his will completely while wearing a human face.
And yes, we believe Christ was not only God, but was also fully human both physically and with a human nature.


But if you look today at a devout Jew and at a devout Christian, their daily lifestyles don't have any resemblance anymore. Fundie or even devout Muslim and Jews are by far more similar to each other.

Christianity deviated so far from Judaism to the point that only the OT is what they have in common today - Christianity was not just an 'update' of Judaism but a total reengineering of an existing religion. The Christian Orthodoxes/Catholics (Originally one church - just politically divided) only read the OT for 'historical' reference but they mainly live by the NT only - not by the OT - Protestant faith on the other hand attempted to 'bring back' some 'OT values' into their lives - with some denomination variances.

Islam 'brought back' the 'OT values' (in its own version) at full scale - at least this what Muslims believe (but they refer to the 'true' OT and they consider the today's OT is modified- also Muslims only believe in the Gospel that deny Jesus' divinity - such as the ebionite Gospel).


I've heard that Judaism and Islam bare a certain resemblance.






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18 May 2018, 3:43 am

funeralxempire wrote:
sly279 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
sly279 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
It just wasn't a smart move from the standpoint of the potential for a lasting peace in the Middle East.

It just about destroys the possibility of it ever happening. The Muslims see this as a grievous insult to them.

I'm a Jew. I have no objection to Israel. But the Palestinians should be heard too.

There should be two equal states in the area, in my opinion.


How do you make peace with a side who’s goal is to kill all the other side?
There will never be peace in the Middle East when they aren’t killing non Muslim they killing Muslims of a slightly different belief. There’s never been peace in the Middle East and never will be.


It's funny you frame this as Muslim vs. non-Muslim; you're aware that Palestinian Christians are just as supportive of Palestinian nationalism as Palestinian Muslims are, right?

Israel Muslims support Israel. Maybe if they gave up on taking the city back and stopped lobbying mussels and doing suicide attacks there’d be peace.
If you lived in Israel constantly under attack you’d have a different opinion. You like people telling England to stop attacking the Germans during the longing bombings.
Or what if we just left Isis alone surely they’d stop attacking us if we just completely withdrew all military from Middle East and let them have it. No they goal is to kill all non Muslims yiu can’t make peace with people who’s sole goal is to kill you.

Other Muslim nations who work with irsael don’t seem to care and I’m sure a lot of Muslims don’t care or support Israel. Sorry but if Canada started lobbing missies on my city every week I’d be calling for their invasion and to topple Canada


There's actually a degree of common sense in what you say, "you can’t make peace with people who’s sole goal is to kill you."

And as long as the pro-ethnic cleansing faction run Israel, Palestinians must understand there is no possibility for peace and resistance, up to and including armed, violent resistance is absolutely justified. :wink:

Then I guess they’ll just continue to die in service of allah via johad at the hands of the IDF and irsael’s superior military power, good riddance.
Sorry I don’t like hamas and Palestine terrorist like you all do. They can all die and rot in hell. There will never peace in the Middle East as long as them, Isis and Iran exist. Turkey is going that way too I hear. Seems besides Kuwait and irsael he Middle East is horrible. No not all the people there are but their governments and enough people are and ruin it for everyone else. Israel always attacks altering being attacked. They don’t go far enough in my opinion, they need to roll in take all of Palestine and start and occupation until they route out every last terrorist. No Other major nation would put up with what they do. Russia would have stomped out Palestine in few weeks if they were irsael, so would the USA, uk, France, Germany etc. non of them would put up with a neighbor stat attacking them every day. So in that way palaistine is lucky. If they’d f****d with us their whole nation would lay in Ruins and there’d be US marines on every street kicking any remaining doors down. Their fighters who remained would be rotting in Cuba being water boarded to find out where the rest are. Russia would just killed them all. Same with China.
Imagine if Tiwain lobbed misled at China. What do you think would happen? Would China seek peace? Or would they bomb the s**t out of that tiny island until nothing moved?
Look what happen to Afghanistan and Iraq after they attacked us and supposedly supported those who attacked us. Look at Syria. If Palestine stopped all terrorist attacks and stopped launching missles I’m sure they’d get left alone. If you go picking a fight with the big guy in the room you going get your ass kicked. To expect anything else is stupid. Honestly I hope Israel says screw political correct and just puts an end to the s**t. I’ve seen it all my life I’m sick of it and I’m not going even th one being bombed. Take Palestine remove hamas. Let life improve for the people there. Pleanty of Muslims live well off lives in irsael. But they won’t. So both sides will just continue killing each other and hating each other. Don’t yiu support gun controL for th kids? Do irsael kids not deserve to live ? Do they not deserve to live with out fear of being bombed every day?



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18 May 2018, 3:45 am

Boo what would be your nations respnse if Saudi Arabia or Egypt started launching missles at your cities? Would do they say sorry and seek peace? Or would they launch counter attacks ?



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18 May 2018, 4:38 am

sly279 wrote:
Boo what would be your nations respnse if Saudi Arabia or Egypt started launching missles at your cities? Would do they say sorry and seek peace? Or would they launch counter attacks ?


Your question is absurd and has nothing to do with the Israel-Palestinian situation - Lebanon is a sovereign nation with its own modern borders and its people didn't come from nowhere but been have been continuously existing in this land, Egypt is a sovereign nation with its own borders and it's a historical nation as well. There's no dispute between Lebanon and Egypt what is ours and what is theirs, nor they driven us from our homes.

Both Lebanese and Egyptians btw do not associate their identity to the land as if it's 'a new country founded officially in the european colonization period' but they associate it on much more ancient historical grounds - they view the official recognition (independence) as a form of rightful restoration of their historical nation (After the long Ottoman empire era).
Some Egyptians view Egypt as continuation to Ancient Egypt, and Lebanon as continuation to Phoenicia or more broadly as a group of Canaanite city-states that still have the same names and locations today ; we see ourselves as ancient natives to the land where we in - it's similar to how Jews associate themselves to ancient Israel - in fact it's similar to how most peoples in the old world , including Europe, identify themselves.

I am gonna counter your question with a question: What do you think the White Britain colonists's response had been when every time the native americans shot arrows at their camps? They surely shot back with fire of course - at least as an act of personal self defense - but that doesn't change the fact that these colonists were....well the initial invaders, aliens to the land, and therefore the initial aggressors.

But if you celebrate thanksgiving every year then I don't expect you will be able to emotionally relate to my above example, I think you're not even capable of so.