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MalchikBrodyaga
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22 May 2018, 6:15 pm

Sometimes I had conversation with girls that went along the following lines:

HER: It doesn't look like you are interested in dating
ME: Yes I am interested in dating. In fact I judge my self-worth by the relationship status. If I wasn't interested, why would I be so miserable all the time?
HER: You shouldn't base your happiness on your relationship status, you should be happy with yourself
ME: I thought you told me I wasn't interested in dating? And now you are telling me I am too interested? You are contradicting yourself!

In any case, there is an analogue to this: namely the way blocking on facebook works. If someone blocked me, then "of course" I am prevented from contacting them, no explanation needed. But what would happen if *I* was the one to block them? In this case, too, I am prevented from contacting them! But I thought that since I was the one who blocked them, I wouldn't want to contact them anyway, so why prevent me from doing something I don't want to do on the first place? I have the same exact question to the girls: if they think I am the one who is disinterested, why are they the ones turning me down? Same *obvious* logical fallacy, isn't it.

In any case, I have a good suggestion to facebook to make a parody of this. If someone else blocked me, then it should simply say I am not allowed to contact them, period. But if *I* am the one who blocked *them* it should say "just be happy with yourself" each time I try to contact them. Or, better yet, if I blocked them out of rage and then want to unblock them once my rage is over, it should prevent me from unblocking them with message such as "just be happy with yourself".

The theory behind it is that, since I blocked them, I have just revealed my true subconscious essence, that talking to them doesn't make me happy. And every single time I say otherwise (by attempting to unblock them) I am just not in tune with that true desire of mine to be by myself, so the facebook, that presumably knows my true desire better than I know it myself, would remind me to "just be happy with myself" since the facebook, in all its wisdom, knows that my true desires were revealed at the time when I blocked them as opposed to any other time.

I mean that's what girls do to me: they are telling me how I presumably feel.



Exuvian
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22 May 2018, 7:33 pm

Does being advised to establish an independent basis for happiness necessarily imply that your current pursuit is overzealous, or just mis-founded?

And it's only fair that facebook shouldn't allow the block-er to harass the block-ee while being fully immune to reprisal. The wall blocks traffic in both directions. At least with facebook if you decide you aren't happy with just yourself you can tear down that wall... as long as you were the one that put it up.

I could always be wrong though...



MalchikBrodyaga
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24 May 2018, 11:19 am

Exuvian wrote:
At least with facebook if you decide you aren't happy with just yourself you can tear down that wall... as long as you were the one that put it up.


I know; but if the facebook were to *change* this aspect and *not* allow you to tear down the walls you yourself put up, it would be a nice parody of other types of social interactions. So here you are, trying to tear down the wall you just put up, and the facebook is giving you a message "just be happy with yourself".

I mean, thats how I feel with girls. If I don't have time to respond because of my studies, they are gone. If I do respond, but my response doesn't show enough interest, they are gone, etc. But hey, *I* was the one who wasn't showing interest. So why wouldn't they believe me if I say I *am* interested, after all?



Exuvian
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24 May 2018, 9:18 pm

MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
I mean, thats how I feel with girls. If I don't have time to respond because of my studies, they are gone. If I do respond, but my response doesn't show enough interest, they are gone, etc. But hey, *I* was the one who wasn't showing interest. So why wouldn't they believe me if I say I *am* interested, after all?

Right, and it comes down to being less about your interest level, and more about their perception of it. I've been accused of outward disinterest in various contexts despite my inner feelings. Once their mind is made up about what you "must" be feeling or thinking, that's that.
Just thinking about that dance makes my head spin. :drunken:



MalchikBrodyaga
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24 May 2018, 9:35 pm

Exuvian wrote:
Right, and it comes down to being less about your interest level, and more about their perception of it.


And why do they think that their perception of my interest level is more accurate than my own? Do they think I have multiple personalities or otherwise lack self awareness to the point of not knowing my own inner feelings (as contradictory as it sounds)?



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24 May 2018, 9:56 pm

MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Exuvian wrote:
Right, and it comes down to being less about your interest level, and more about their perception of it.


And why do they think that their perception of my interest level is more accurate than my own? Do they think I have multiple personalities or otherwise lack self awareness to the point of not knowing my own inner feelings (as contradictory as it sounds)?

Personally, I think I've gotten better with time, but it's possible my "body language" may still have an accent or choose an incorrect word. That disconnect can be difficult to bridge.



MalchikBrodyaga
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24 May 2018, 10:09 pm

Exuvian wrote:
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Exuvian wrote:
Right, and it comes down to being less about your interest level, and more about their perception of it.


And why do they think that their perception of my interest level is more accurate than my own? Do they think I have multiple personalities or otherwise lack self awareness to the point of not knowing my own inner feelings (as contradictory as it sounds)?

Personally, I think I've gotten better with time, but it's possible my "body language" may still have an accent or choose an incorrect word. That disconnect can be difficult to bridge.


That doesn't answer my question. So why would women more readily believe that you don't know your own inner feelings (a contradiction!) than to believe that you simply haven't mastered body language?



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24 May 2018, 10:36 pm

MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Exuvian wrote:
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Exuvian wrote:
Right, and it comes down to being less about your interest level, and more about their perception of it.


And why do they think that their perception of my interest level is more accurate than my own? Do they think I have multiple personalities or otherwise lack self awareness to the point of not knowing my own inner feelings (as contradictory as it sounds)?

Personally, I think I've gotten better with time, but it's possible my "body language" may still have an accent or choose an incorrect word. That disconnect can be difficult to bridge.


That doesn't answer my question. So why would women more readily believe that you don't know your own inner feelings (a contradiction!) than to believe that you simply haven't mastered body language?

Presumably because they can't get inside your mind and know for sure that what you actually feel inside is truly different from what they think they see outside. It seems to be taken as axiomatic that body language is the unconcealable subconscious truth, overriding any contradictions of it that may arise verbally. It's always in that direction that the "How to spot a liar" videos on youtube work. They never say, "though his arms may be folded in defiance, if he says he'd like to cooperate, you're in luck!"



MalchikBrodyaga
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25 May 2018, 12:01 pm

Exuvian wrote:
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Exuvian wrote:
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Exuvian wrote:
Right, and it comes down to being less about your interest level, and more about their perception of it.


And why do they think that their perception of my interest level is more accurate than my own? Do they think I have multiple personalities or otherwise lack self awareness to the point of not knowing my own inner feelings (as contradictory as it sounds)?

Personally, I think I've gotten better with time, but it's possible my "body language" may still have an accent or choose an incorrect word. That disconnect can be difficult to bridge.


That doesn't answer my question. So why would women more readily believe that you don't know your own inner feelings (a contradiction!) than to believe that you simply haven't mastered body language?

Presumably because they can't get inside your mind and know for sure that what you actually feel inside is truly different from what they think they see outside. It seems to be taken as axiomatic that body language is the unconcealable subconscious truth, overriding any contradictions of it that may arise verbally. It's always in that direction that the "How to spot a liar" videos on youtube work. They never say, "though his arms may be folded in defiance, if he says he'd like to cooperate, you're in luck!"


But why would a person lie about how they feel? People lie in order to get something out of it. So what would I gain out of lying that I want to date when I actually don't want to date? Dating. But I thought I don't want to date? So why would I lie to get something that I don't want on the first place?



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26 May 2018, 12:50 pm

MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Exuvian wrote:
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Exuvian wrote:
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Exuvian wrote:
Right, and it comes down to being less about your interest level, and more about their perception of it.


And why do they think that their perception of my interest level is more accurate than my own? Do they think I have multiple personalities or otherwise lack self awareness to the point of not knowing my own inner feelings (as contradictory as it sounds)?

Personally, I think I've gotten better with time, but it's possible my "body language" may still have an accent or choose an incorrect word. That disconnect can be difficult to bridge.


That doesn't answer my question. So why would women more readily believe that you don't know your own inner feelings (a contradiction!) than to believe that you simply haven't mastered body language?

Presumably because they can't get inside your mind and know for sure that what you actually feel inside is truly different from what they think they see outside. It seems to be taken as axiomatic that body language is the unconcealable subconscious truth, overriding any contradictions of it that may arise verbally. It's always in that direction that the "How to spot a liar" videos on youtube work. They never say, "though his arms may be folded in defiance, if he says he'd like to cooperate, you're in luck!"


But why would a person lie about how they feel? People lie in order to get something out of it. So what would I gain out of lying that I want to date when I actually don't want to date? Dating. But I thought I don't want to date? So why would I lie to get something that I don't want on the first place?

Yeah, logically that should make clear your inner desire despite outward appearances. However, people tend to most trust their own impressions of someone else. If your apparent interest clashes with your actual interest, they may be hopelessly confused by the incongruity. If they "discover" this, they may have trouble trusting you. If you address it first, it could help your perceived credibility when they observe the phenomenon later.

Then there will always be some who just can't be helped in this regard. That's fine too. My mom once advised that in a job interview I could mention something about not being a comfortable self-advocate or naturally showing strong emotion. I think this preemptive self-disclosure could have practical benefits in the dating "scene" as well.



MalchikBrodyaga
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26 May 2018, 3:42 pm

Exuvian wrote:
Yeah, logically that should make clear your inner desire despite outward appearances.


Why don't they follow the logic I outlined in my previous reply? Is it too complicated for them? Alright, lets make it simpler:

ME: I want an apple
THEM: No you can't have an apple because my impression of you is that you don't like apples

Don't you see there is something wrong with that?

Exuvian wrote:
If they "discover" this, they may have trouble trusting you. If you address it first, it could help your perceived credibility when they observe the phenomenon later.


Interesting. And then there are others who told me I talk about myself too much too soon. So which way is it? Should I talk about myself too soon, or do I do it too late, or am I focusing on the wrong thing?



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26 May 2018, 5:00 pm

MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Exuvian wrote:
Yeah, logically that should make clear your inner desire despite outward appearances.


Why don't they follow the logic I outlined in my previous reply? Is it too complicated for them? Alright, lets make it simpler:

ME: I want an apple
THEM: No you can't have an apple because my impression of you is that you don't like apples

Don't you see there is something wrong with that?

The problem is logic works without and sometimes in defiance of emotion, while relationships work without and sometimes in defiance of logic. The apple example would more likely net you one apple as the confused party walked away. The dating example is a tacit request to work out such future misunderstandings with you.


MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Exuvian wrote:
If they "discover" this, they may have trouble trusting you. If you address it first, it could help your perceived credibility when they observe the phenomenon later.


Interesting. And then there are others who told me I talk about myself too much too soon. So which way is it? Should I talk about myself too soon, or do I do it too late, or am I focusing on the wrong thing?

For the record, I have no personal experience with dating, so I can only relay general outsider observations and introspection. Anyone with real experience please feel free to jump in here...
That said, I think the interested party is generally the one who asks the other about themselves first. If you're the one being asked, answering in one or two sentences and returning the "how about you?" is good to convey interest without making it "all about you". The short answer I suppose is balance. Don't tell your life story right away or in one sitting.



MalchikBrodyaga
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26 May 2018, 5:32 pm

Exuvian wrote:
The problem is logic works without and sometimes in defiance of emotion,


Interesting. In my case, my logic totally agrees with my emotion -- I mean when I feel angry and frustrated that people don't see things the way I do, thats an emotion, isn't it. I guess I am just *using* logic in order to *convey* my emotions to others, but others don't get it.

Exuvian wrote:
The apple example would more likely net you one apple as the confused party walked away.


So why would they walk away? Whats so bad about the fact that they thought I didn't like apples and actually I do?

Exuvian wrote:
The dating example is a tacit request to work out such future misunderstandings with you.


But they didn't say "hey I know I misread you, I am just concerned about misreading something else in the future"; rather they are sticking to their original assertion.

Also, didn't it occur to them that future misunderstandings would be less and less likely once they know me better?

Exuvian wrote:
For the record, I have no personal experience with dating,


But you are already 38. Was it that you didn't like anyone, or they kept rejecting you? Do you plan to date eventually?



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26 May 2018, 7:04 pm

MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Exuvian wrote:
The problem is logic works without and sometimes in defiance of emotion,


Interesting. In my case, my logic totally agrees with my emotion -- I mean when I feel angry and frustrated that people don't see things the way I do, thats an emotion, isn't it. I guess I am just *using* logic in order to *convey* my emotions to others, but others don't get it.

The two can be in agreement, but they can't be relied on to do so. Emotions usually get ahead and in the way of logic, which is why other's might not 'get it' even when your logic is sound.
MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Exuvian wrote:
The apple example would more likely net you one apple as the confused party walked away.


So why would they walk away? Whats so bad about the fact that they thought I didn't like apples and actually I do?


Walk away confused was my clumsy way of expressing that they'd not understand even after the explanation & transaction concluded. Because it would be an isolated transaction, however, they'd be more likely to "write off" the misunderstanding. Particularly true if it were a second chance to sell you the apple in question.

MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Exuvian wrote:
The dating example is a tacit request to work out such future misunderstandings with you.


But they didn't say "hey I know I misread you, I am just concerned about misreading something else in the future"; rather they are sticking to their original assertion.

Also, didn't it occur to them that future misunderstandings would be less and less likely once they know me better?

A great point, and it may not have occurred to them.

MalchikBrodyaga wrote:
Exuvian wrote:
For the record, I have no personal experience with dating,


But you are already 38. Was it that you didn't like anyone, or they kept rejecting you? Do you plan to date eventually?

I don't really have the aptitude for it. The idea of chit-chat is both mind-numbing and difficult to sustain, I don't have a good sense of when or if a lady would want me to touch her. I'm kind of immature and only in fair shape financially.
Seems like it could be nice, but not for me. :)