Telling Things to People (Unsuccessfully)

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PhosphorusDecree
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29 Jun 2018, 6:20 pm

How it should work:
1. You need to tell somebody something.
2. You tell them the thing.
3. They listen.
4. They repeat the thing back to you in their own words to confirm that they understand.
5. They now know the thing.
What actually happens:
1. You need to tell somebody something.
2. You tell them the thing.
3. They do not listen.
4. They assume you are talking about something else entirely that they already know.
5. They tell you the thing that they thought you said, which you did not say.
6. You repeat what you actually said.
7. They again tell you the thing that they thought you said, which you did not say.
8. Again, you repeat what you actually said.
9. They give you that look which says, "Why are we still having this conversation?"
10. You give up.
11. They do not know the thing.
12. Later, it becomes apparent that they really should have known the thing.
13. They ask, "Why didn't you tell me the thing?"


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Esmerelda Weatherwax
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29 Jun 2018, 6:33 pm

Gaaaaahhhhhhhh

You've just related the story of my life... at least, at work... at least, with my higher ups...

Gaaaaahhhhhhhh

... except for the bit where they then expected me to clean up the mess they made... by not listening *to me* in the first place.

:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:


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Twilightprincess
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29 Jun 2018, 6:50 pm

I sort of have this happen, but I think the lack of understanding is usually my fault. I’m so intent on the thing I want to say that I’ll leave out or skip key points.

If they aren’t thinking anything along the same train of thought that I am, they really need the details I’m leaving out.

I have to be careful when I’m talking so this doesn’t happen.



yellowtamarin
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29 Jun 2018, 7:14 pm

And often the part where they are not listening also involves them cutting you off before you have finished telling the thing.



Amanda G23
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29 Jun 2018, 8:13 pm

PhosphorusDecree wrote:
How it should work:
1. You need to tell somebody something.
2. You tell them the thing.
3. They listen.
4. They repeat the thing back to you in their own words to confirm that they understand.
5. They now know the thing.
What actually happens:
1. You need to tell somebody something.
2. You tell them the thing.
3. They do not listen.
4. They assume you are talking about something else entirely that they already know.
5. They tell you the thing that they thought you said, which you did not say.
6. You repeat what you actually said.
7. They again tell you the thing that they thought you said, which you did not say.
8. Again, you repeat what you actually said.
9. They give you that look which says, "Why are we still having this conversation?"
10. You give up.
11. They do not know the thing.
12. Later, it becomes apparent that they really should have known the thing.
13. They ask, "Why didn't you tell me the thing?"

This is so true, and so frustrating! I took a course in which I was told that 93% of communication is nonverbal. When I heard that, my jaw (metaphorically) hit the floor. Supposedly, 55% of communication is body language, 38% is tone of voice, and only 7% is the actual words spoken. I think the assertion is exaggerated and simplistic, but it was spoken as though it were a fact, and no one there, besides myself, seemed to have any trouble believing it! There must be at least some truth to it. It would partially explain why so many people listen so poorly, if only 7% of their attention is on what you're actually saying.


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hale_bopp
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30 Jun 2018, 6:21 am

Me every day at work.



Esmerelda Weatherwax
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30 Jun 2018, 8:29 am

yellowtamarin wrote:
And often the part where they are not listening also involves them cutting you off before you have finished telling the thing.


... and doing it condescendingly, just to frost the cake...


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"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people," said the man. "You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides."
-- Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!


PhosphorusDecree
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30 Jun 2018, 3:22 pm

Amanda G23 wrote:
This is so true, and so frustrating! I took a course in which I was told that 93% of communication is nonverbal. When I heard that, my jaw (metaphorically) hit the floor. Supposedly, 55% of communication is body language, 38% is tone of voice, and only 7% is the actual words spoken. I think the assertion is exaggerated and simplistic, but it was spoken as though it were a fact, and no one there, besides myself, seemed to have any trouble believing it! There must be at least some truth to it. It would partially explain why so many people listen so poorly, if only 7% of their attention is on what you're actually saying.


I'm slowly coming round to that point of view. One reason is the word "not." On paper, it's one of the fundamental tools of logic, and thus of thought. In speech, it's a little word that people fail to hear a good 50% of the time. I used to try to be flexible when making plans with people, but when I'd say "I can do Tuesday or Wednesday, but not Thursday," the usual response was "OK, that's settled. See you on Thursday."


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30 Jun 2018, 4:41 pm

Often it's like my words are encrypted and people just can't decipher it into their normal form and turn it into the most negative and ludicrous thing possible. Drives me insane.


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- Robin Williams - I think the saddest people always try their hardest to make people happy because they know what it’s like to feel absolutely worthless and they don’t want anyone else to feel like that.
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Esmerelda Weatherwax
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30 Jun 2018, 6:59 pm

PhosphorusDecree wrote:
Amanda G23 wrote:
This is so true, and so frustrating! I took a course in which I was told that 93% of communication is nonverbal. When I heard that, my jaw (metaphorically) hit the floor. Supposedly, 55% of communication is body language, 38% is tone of voice, and only 7% is the actual words spoken. I think the assertion is exaggerated and simplistic, but it was spoken as though it were a fact, and no one there, besides myself, seemed to have any trouble believing it! There must be at least some truth to it. It would partially explain why so many people listen so poorly, if only 7% of their attention is on what you're actually saying.


I'm slowly coming round to that point of view. One reason is the word "not." On paper, it's one of the fundamental tools of logic, and thus of thought. In speech, it's a little word that people fail to hear a good 50% of the time. I used to try to be flexible when making plans with people, but when I'd say "I can do Tuesday or Wednesday, but not Thursday," the usual response was "OK, that's settled. See you on Thursday."


This. Drives. Me. Insane!

I have on *many* occasions gone even further than you describe above - "I can do Monday or Thursday. Absolutely no other days. ONLY Monday or Thursday." and they come back with "OK, Wednesday at 10?"

And I. Want. To. Throttle. Them.

But of course one must be polite, because at least in my experience this type of active misunderstanding usually travels with serious passive-aggressive traits. It's almost a form of solipsism - you don't really exist, your efforts to communicate are just the sighing of the wind.

Maddening.


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"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people," said the man. "You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides."
-- Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!


Okkano
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01 Jul 2018, 1:18 am

With how many NTs does this not occour for you?
How was your experience with autists regarding that?

For me there has been only 2 NTs who i knew for longer with whom it somewhat worked.
With autists that problem occoured sometimes, but they seem to understand that problem and are ready to follow through to try to cooperate with me to understand that.

Generally also a problem i seem to notice with NTs, that if you try to talk in their context they don't apply their context to what you say.


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ladyelaine
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01 Jul 2018, 3:18 pm

My speech impediment makes telling people anything an absolute pain in the ass. I tell somebody what my name is, they will get the last letter wrong or call me by another name that begins with the same letter.

Talking to customer service people on the phone is even worse because they seem almost always be from another country and don't speak much English. I have to repeat myself a lot because they never get my responses correct the first time.



LoneLoyalWolf
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01 Jul 2018, 3:41 pm

ladyelaine wrote:
My speech impediment makes telling people anything an absolute pain in the ass. I tell somebody what my name is, they will get the last letter wrong or call me by another name that begins with the same letter.

Talking to customer service people on the phone is even worse because they seem almost always be from another country and don't speak much English. I have to repeat myself a lot because they never get my responses correct the first time.

That sounds horrible. Can understand you struggle with this a lot. You have my respect.


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Please be good to nature and all animals. Please be kind, respectful and patient with everyone. Equality and equity.

30 year old male, happy single. Demisexual | This means I only feel attracted to women I have a deep connection or bond with.

- Robin Williams - I think the saddest people always try their hardest to make people happy because they know what it’s like to feel absolutely worthless and they don’t want anyone else to feel like that.
- Robin Williams - Everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. ALWAYS.
- Robin Williams - You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it.


ladyelaine
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01 Jul 2018, 4:42 pm

LoneLoyalWolf wrote:
ladyelaine wrote:
My speech impediment makes telling people anything an absolute pain in the ass. I tell somebody what my name is, they will get the last letter wrong or call me by another name that begins with the same letter.

Talking to customer service people on the phone is even worse because they seem almost always be from another country and don't speak much English. I have to repeat myself a lot because they never get my responses correct the first time.

That sounds horrible. Can understand you struggle with this a lot. You have my respect.


You are pretty cool too. Anybody that is a fan of Robin Williams is cool to me.



LoneLoyalWolf
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01 Jul 2018, 5:38 pm

ladyelaine wrote:
You are pretty cool too. Anybody that is a fan of Robin Williams is cool to me.

Thank you for the kind words :D


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Please be good to nature and all animals. Please be kind, respectful and patient with everyone. Equality and equity.

30 year old male, happy single. Demisexual | This means I only feel attracted to women I have a deep connection or bond with.

- Robin Williams - I think the saddest people always try their hardest to make people happy because they know what it’s like to feel absolutely worthless and they don’t want anyone else to feel like that.
- Robin Williams - Everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. ALWAYS.
- Robin Williams - You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it.