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naturalplastic
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02 Jul 2018, 9:52 pm

If God exists, and if he is omnipotent then could God build a boulder so big, that even he, God, couldn't lift it?



DarthMetaKnight
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02 Jul 2018, 10:28 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
If God exists, and if he is omnipotent then could God build a boulder so big, that even he, God, couldn't lift it?


Yeah. This is precisely why the entire concept of omnipotence is bogus.


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naturalplastic
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03 Jul 2018, 8:05 am

Back in highschool I asked a Catholic friend that question. He thought about it seriously for a moment, and then replied that "God, the father, could build a boulder so big, that God, the Son, wouldn't be able to lift it."

The guy gets points for creativity. :)

But does he get points for logic?



kraftiekortie
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03 Jul 2018, 9:54 am

If God is omnipotent, He cannot create such a boulder.

He would be able to lift the entire Universe.



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03 Jul 2018, 10:03 am

naturalplastic wrote:
If God exists, and if he is omnipotent then could God build a boulder so big, that even he, God, couldn't lift it?
Another feeble and vain attempt to apply human logic against God.

Human logic, being created by imperfect beings, is intrinsically imperfect. Thus, human logic could not possibly be used to define an eternal, infinite, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, and perfect God.


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naturalplastic
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03 Jul 2018, 10:26 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
If God is omnipotent, He cannot create such a boulder.

He would be able to lift the entire Universe.


So...

God would NOT be able to make such a boulder.

Which would mean that there was something that God couldn't do.

Which means...that God wouldn't be omnipotent.



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03 Jul 2018, 10:34 am

IF...

... God is real, then (by definition) He is perfect, and imperfect human logic would be unable to define Him.

... God is an imaginary human construct, then He could do whatever humans could imagine, thus making Him omnipotent.


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kraftiekortie
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03 Jul 2018, 10:44 am

Just because he "can't create such a boulder" doesn't mean He is not omnipotent.

What would be the reason for creating such a boulder, anyway? Just to prove a point?

(don't forget: I don't believe in God).



naturalplastic
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03 Jul 2018, 10:48 am

Fnord wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
If God exists, and if he is omnipotent then could God build a boulder so big, that even he, God, couldn't lift it?
Another feeble and vain attempt to apply human logic against God.

Human logic, being created by imperfect beings, is intrinsically imperfect. Thus, human logic could not possibly be used to define an eternal, infinite, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, and perfect God.


Appeal to Ignorance fallacy!



naturalplastic
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03 Jul 2018, 10:51 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Just because he "can't create such a boulder" doesn't mean He is not omnipotent.

What would be the reason for creating such a boulder, anyway? Just to prove a point?

(don't forget: I don't believe in God).


Whats God's reason for doing ANY thing?

Were not talking about God's motivations. Were talking about his abilities.



naturalplastic
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03 Jul 2018, 10:59 am

This question is often asked in the same breath as that other cliché question: "what happens when an irresistible force meets and immovable object?"

But that question is bogus for the simple reason that if "an irresistible force" exists, then by definition there are no 'immovable objects". And if an immovable object exists then by definition there are no irresistible forces.

This boulder conundrum might have a similar but more subtle way around it.

Maybe...

all motion is relative. So God could build a boulder so big that he couldn't move it. But he could just push the whole universe to one side so that the whole universe has changed its position relative to the boulder. So in relative terms the boulder has moved. Ergo God lifts the boulder that he cant lift ergo God can indeed build a boulder so massive that he can lift it, and he can still lift the boulder! :D



Fnord
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03 Jul 2018, 11:04 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Fnord wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
If God exists, and if he is omnipotent then could God build a boulder so big, that even he, God, couldn't lift it?
Another feeble and vain attempt to apply human logic against God. Human logic, being created by imperfect beings, is intrinsically imperfect. Thus, human logic could not possibly be used to define an eternal, infinite, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, and perfect God.
Appeal to Ignorance fallacy!
How so? An appeal to ignorance is an argument for a conclusion based on a lack of evidence (e.g., Either the conclusion is true because there is no evidence against it, or the conclusion is false because there is no evidence for it).


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03 Jul 2018, 11:09 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Maybe ... all motion is relative. So God could build a boulder so big that he couldn't move it. But he could just push the whole universe to one side so that the whole universe has changed its position relative to the boulder. So in relative terms the boulder has moved. Ergo God lifts the boulder that he cant lift ergo God can indeed build a boulder so massive that he can lift it, and he can still lift the boulder!
Now, THIS argument I cannot refute!

Either your argument is valid or I'm too tired to debate any more.


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kraftiekortie
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03 Jul 2018, 11:18 am

God can’t create a boulder He cannot lift because of the restrictions which are part and parcel of the word “omnipotent.”



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03 Jul 2018, 11:35 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Just because he "can't create such a boulder" doesn't mean He is not omnipotent.

What would be the reason for creating such a boulder, anyway? Just to prove a point?

(don't forget: I don't believe in God).


Something to do to pass the time. He’d already completed all the crossword puzzles for the day.



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03 Jul 2018, 11:39 am

Yeah, I've wondered about that ever since my brother asked me the question a long time ago. And I have other questions as well:

God rested on the 7th day. If He's so perfect and powerful, why would He get tired?

And if God is so perfect, why did He create humans to be so not perfect? In fact, nothing in the world is 100% perfect.

And are the Pearly Gates in Cartoon Heaven always gold when pearls are white? :)