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XFilesGeek
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18 Jul 2018, 5:12 pm

Fnord wrote:
shyteddy wrote:
Fnord wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
It's a person with XY chromosomes who don't respond to the appropriate male hormones and instead develop female secondary sex characteristics. They're usually presumed to be female until a failure to start their period reveals their condition.
HUH?! I have an 'XY' combination in my 23rd pair, and I have never once experienced a 'period'! PLEASE consult a biology textbook -- even the ones written for junior high school have defined this very clearly.
XFilesGeek wrote:
There are other intersex conditions besides extra chromosomes.
These may be epigenetic in nature, or the result of a prenatal chimeric process; such as one in which fraternal twins - one male and one female - absorbed each other and developed as a single hermaphroditic person.
XFilesGeek wrote:
You're welcomed to insist that a person with AIS is really "male" despite the boobs and vagina...
Again, I have insisted no such thing. If you don't stop claiming otherwise, I shall have to report you to the moderators. Aside from that, you know as well as I do that neither anatomy nor genetics alone account for one's sexual identity. There have been many members of this very website who have claimed to be stuck in a body that is the wrong sex -- females stuck in male bodies, and so forth.
Well this has been a fascinating conversation to see unfold and you're obviously more educated on the topic than I, so I don't want to argue with you academically. I will say thank you however for adding something useful to the discourse instead of giving a knee-jerk reaction or simply dismissing my points, although we disagree in spots.
Meh ... disagreements happen. It doesn't make us enemies.
shyteddy wrote:
My point wasn't to deny that stark physical differences existed between the sexes, or that the notion of sex itself wasn't relevant. It was to say that sex isn't as dichotomous as many like to think and when we attempt to define it by something simple (XX or XY chromosomes, Genitalia, Hormones, etc.) nature always throws a wrench in our efforts by providing an exception. And since we find many who, despite having several of the defining traits have these exceptions - like females with y chromosomes, males with two x chromosomes, males with breasts, females without ovaries, and so forth...
You have it backwards. It's not "Male with two X chromosomes", it's actually "Female with male genitalia" (As I said, there may be epigenetic factors involved). With the definitions of 'male' and 'female' based on genetic factors, the rest falls into place much more readily. A person's sex should not be based on the presence or absence of breasts, ovaries, testicles, a penis or a vagina -- it's their base chromosomal pairs that matter. And it's how the person identifies him- or her-self that matters more in the determination of gender. This is why we validate people with male bodies and 'XY' chromosomes as female -- they believe they are female, and that's all there is to it.
shyteddy wrote:
... I think using the lame "There's only two sexes" argument to disvalidate trans people is absurd as it casts aside nuance and approaches a complicated topic as though it were black and white.
Saying that there are only two sexes does not invalidate transgender people. Once we all accept the fact that sex is defined by genetics, that gender is a social construct, and that sex and gender are not the same thing (just as faith and religion are not the same thing), then we can get on with meaningful discussions regarding this topic.

My feelings on transgender people have undergone a 180-degree turnabout in the last few years. I no longer see them as delusional or somehow 'damaged'. I now see them merely as people. This may be due to my interest in transhumanism, my ability to reason my way through any topic, or my own life-changes brought on by male menopause. Who knows?

The fact that I can put reason behind my acceptance of trans-gendered people should be seen as a significant step in the right direction, whether or not anyone agrees with the actual reasoning itself.


:wtg:


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Aniihya
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pete413
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19 Sep 2018, 8:22 am

All this over-thinking the issue is just going to drive some folks (like me) completely bonkers.
To be honest, I am suicidal because, at least for me, the words "sex", and "gender" have become so politically mangled these days, that now I am just out of my mind, "screw it I'll just offend BOTH sides".

I dunno maybe people hit a breaking point or something, maybe there is a critical lack of help in the world. But now I'm just angry at everything and alone, and i have no idea what or who the ***k I am anymore.

Thanks folks, let's just over debate and over think this some MORE how about???
People are not messed up in the head enough yet.



BTDT
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19 Sep 2018, 8:26 am

I'm 5' 2" and get misgendered as a women all the time. I think the easiest way to fix that would be to grow a foot taller, but at my age I don't think that is going to happen.



pete413
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19 Sep 2018, 9:06 am

I'm just saying there ARE obvious external differences if you do not factor in clothing.

Yes, there may be statistical border area nuances, but for the most part. C'mon,to use proper technical terms, penis, vagina, who can't tell the difference?

Ok, people dress in all sorts of ways and mask those biological features, but even current medical technology can't give trans the parts they desire. If it was just a "social construct", trans would not even have to spend all that money on surgery. A different outfit alone does not make one another sex, gender, or whatever words current language is using.

This really is going waaaaay into splitting hairs here.

And both of the words "sex' and "gender" have become so conflated, they have little meaning any more.
I used to identify as tran, but now I'm just bat S* crazy. this is what happens, people are not getting help, there is no "lgbt community"... it's a myth.



BTDT
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19 Sep 2018, 9:14 am

https://www.intersexequality.com/how-co ... in-humans/
Intersex is around 2% Which is in the same order of magnitude as autism.

Hardly in the same statistical incidence of a rare disease, which is like 10000 people in a population of 350 million.

The "LGBTQ" community is a political construct of similarly oppressed groups. Community is likely to exist only within the sub-groups, though there may be rare exceptions.



pete413
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19 Sep 2018, 11:03 am

People are going to call each other what they want and judge what they see externally, It does not matter what i want to cal myself, nobody really cares, they are too caught up in their world , with their own definitions of things like "sex', "gender" man", "woman", who cares what statistics or science says,it's a sucky word and people are nasty to each other, it's just reality. Can't change it, life sucks.

Nobody cares about autistics or autism, because it is just a statistical insignificance. Who cares about any other 2% group.

Why even care about anything?

Good for those people in the handful expensive metro areas who are fortunate to have a neighborhood they can go out and "be themselves" (whatever that means, the rest of the world, you'd better "be normal" or harassment will ensue. Most places are still quite ignorant and I don't think they want to change any time soon.



RightGalaxy
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25 Sep 2018, 2:01 pm

Biological sex is a biological construct. Relationships are neurological.