Will Turkey ever acknowledge the Armenian Genocide?

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DarthMetaKnight
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22 Jul 2018, 4:10 am

Hi all.

I know that the West can't easily do anything about this, but I still want to bring this up, as the Turkish government has become especially nutty lately.

Do you think that the Turkish government will ever acknowledge the Armenian Genocide?

I suspect that this will happen eventually, but it probably won't happen soon. The far-right "patriots" in Turkey have too much control over the country now. That's why the current Turkish government hates Armenians, Kurds and anyone else who isn't "really" Turkish.


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Last edited by DarthMetaKnight on 22 Jul 2018, 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

AprilR
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22 Jul 2018, 5:09 am

Hello, i hope this post doesn't offend anyone but i sort of wanted to put my two cents here since i'm turkish. This is kind of a sensitive topic in our country but i think it was like that even before the current government. There are lots of different sources that say conflicting things and because of that even i'm not sure what to think. Since different governments have different interests it's very possible that information can be altered and in our history books what transpired is not described as genocide. I actually find it kind of hard to believe too, since if there was a hatred for armenians, how could the Ottoman Empire survive being a multinational empire for so long? Again, i really hope this post doesn't offend anyone, i just wanted to say something as someone who lives there.



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22 Jul 2018, 5:48 am

AprilR wrote:
Hello, i hope this post doesn't offend anyone but i sort of wanted to put my two cents here since i'm turkish. This is kind of a sensitive topic in our country but i think it was like that even before the current government. There are lots of different sources that say conflicting things and because of that even i'm not sure what to think. Since different governments have different interests it's very possible that information can be altered and in our history books what transpired is not described as genocide.


There is hard evidence which proves that The Ottoman Turks carried out a genocide against Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks. The Turkish Authorities only deny this because of patriotism.

In the same way, Americans patriots will often deny the Native American genocide. Japanese patriots will often deny the Rape of Nanking. Canadian patriots will often portray Louis Riel as a villain, even though he was just fighting back against imperialism. British patriots will often downplay the harmful effects of British Imperialism. Australian patriots will often argue that the Aboriginals had it coming. Russian patriots will portray Ivan the Terrible, Joseph Stalin and Vladimir Putin as good people. Mexican patriots will often try to restrict immigration coming from more southern Latin American countries. Italian patriots will cling to Christopher Columbus and deny his genocidal acts. Chinese patriots think that central Asian people are sub-human. I could go on like this all day, but you get the idea. Patriotism is cancer.

ALL
PATRIOTISM
IS
CANCER


Quote:
I actually find it kind of hard to believe too, since if there was a hatred for armenians, how could the Ottoman Empire survive being a multinational empire for so long? Again, i really hope this post doesn't offend anyone, i just wanted to say something as someone who lives there.


The Ottoman rulers killed all of those people because they knew that their empire was dying, and so they blamed everyone but themselves. Genocidal urges often stem from patriotic insecurity. A country will often resort to genocide when it is losing its power and needs to blame an internal "fifth column".


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AprilR
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22 Jul 2018, 6:20 am

I agree with you about patriotism, there are things that i really like about my country (like kind and warm hearted people and never being bullied) but i've never saw myself as superior or inferior because of that. I think that each country and nation has different strengths and weaknesses, it's okay to like the strengths but we should work on the weaknesses too. And i'll be sure to research a lot on this subject.



DarthMetaKnight
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22 Jul 2018, 7:06 am

AprilR wrote:
I agree with you about patriotism, there are things that i really like about my country (like kind and warm hearted people and never being bullied) but i've never saw myself as superior or inferior because of that.


Kind people can be found in any country to a certain degree.

Quote:
I think that each country and nation has different strengths and weaknesses, it's okay to like the strengths but we should work on the weaknesses too. And i'll be sure to research a lot on this subject.


Thanks. :)

Image


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Daniel89
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22 Jul 2018, 7:20 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
AprilR wrote:
Hello, i hope this post doesn't offend anyone but i sort of wanted to put my two cents here since i'm turkish. This is kind of a sensitive topic in our country but i think it was like that even before the current government. There are lots of different sources that say conflicting things and because of that even i'm not sure what to think. Since different governments have different interests it's very possible that information can be altered and in our history books what transpired is not described as genocide.


There is hard evidence which proves that The Ottoman Turks carried out a genocide against Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks. The Turkish Authorities only deny this because of patriotism.

In the same way, Americans patriots will often deny the Native American genocide. Japanese patriots will often deny the Rape of Nanking. Canadian patriots will often portray Louis Riel as a villain, even though he was just fighting back against imperialism. British patriots will often downplay the harmful effects of British Imperialism. Australian patriots will often argue that the Aboriginals had it coming. Russian patriots will portray Ivan the Terrible, Joseph Stalin and Vladimir Putin as good people. Mexican patriots will often try to restrict immigration coming from more southern Latin American countries. Italian patriots will cling to Christopher Columbus and deny his genocidal acts. Chinese patriots think that central Asian people are sub-human. I could go on like this all day, but you get the idea. Patriotism is cancer.

ALL
PATRIOTISM
IS
CANCER


Quote:
I actually find it kind of hard to believe too, since if there was a hatred for armenians, how could the Ottoman Empire survive being a multinational empire for so long? Again, i really hope this post doesn't offend anyone, i just wanted to say something as someone who lives there.


The Ottoman rulers killed all of those people because they knew that their empire was dying, and so they blamed everyone but themselves. Genocidal urges often stem from patriotic insecurity. A country will often resort to genocide when it is losing its power and needs to blame an internal "fifth column".


I don't know too much about US history but was there really a genocide against the native Americans? I thought there was just conquest and disease?



DarthMetaKnight
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22 Jul 2018, 7:48 am

Daniel89 wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
AprilR wrote:
Hello, i hope this post doesn't offend anyone but i sort of wanted to put my two cents here since i'm turkish. This is kind of a sensitive topic in our country but i think it was like that even before the current government. There are lots of different sources that say conflicting things and because of that even i'm not sure what to think. Since different governments have different interests it's very possible that information can be altered and in our history books what transpired is not described as genocide.


There is hard evidence which proves that The Ottoman Turks carried out a genocide against Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks. The Turkish Authorities only deny this because of patriotism.

In the same way, Americans patriots will often deny the Native American genocide. Japanese patriots will often deny the Rape of Nanking. Canadian patriots will often portray Louis Riel as a villain, even though he was just fighting back against imperialism. British patriots will often downplay the harmful effects of British Imperialism. Australian patriots will often argue that the Aboriginals had it coming. Russian patriots will portray Ivan the Terrible, Joseph Stalin and Vladimir Putin as good people. Mexican patriots will often try to restrict immigration coming from more southern Latin American countries. Italian patriots will cling to Christopher Columbus and deny his genocidal acts. Chinese patriots think that central Asian people are sub-human. I could go on like this all day, but you get the idea. Patriotism is cancer.

ALL
PATRIOTISM
IS
CANCER


Quote:
I actually find it kind of hard to believe too, since if there was a hatred for armenians, how could the Ottoman Empire survive being a multinational empire for so long? Again, i really hope this post doesn't offend anyone, i just wanted to say something as someone who lives there.


The Ottoman rulers killed all of those people because they knew that their empire was dying, and so they blamed everyone but themselves. Genocidal urges often stem from patriotic insecurity. A country will often resort to genocide when it is losing its power and needs to blame an internal "fifth column".


I don't know too much about US history but was there really a genocide against the native Americans? I thought there was just conquest and disease?


The early Americans deliberately tried to kill as many Native Americans as possible. That's one of the reasons why the American Bison was almost hunted to extinction. The Americans were deliberately trying to kill off the Bison in order to starve the indigenous people of the Great Plains.

Some people try to justify this by claiming that Native Americans are "naturally violent", but that's a massive pile of s**t. Before the American pioneers started stealing land, they sent out mountain men to explore the West. The Native Americans were friendly towards the mountain men because the mountain men were merely exploring, not conquering. Many of the mountain men became deeply depressed later in life because their Native American friends were being butchered by the US armed forces.


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naturalplastic
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22 Jul 2018, 8:06 am

Don't mean to bash Turkey(am eager to visit the place as a tourist someday, and its not like my own USA doesn't have stuff to answer for either-as Darth points out). But the US cant even get our NATO ally Turkey to fight alongside our other allies, the Iraqi Kurds, to help us defeat ISIS in the present day because of Turkey's fear of Turkish Kurdish nationalism/seperatism. So I am not holding my breath waiting for them to come clean about how they treated other minorities in the recent past.



DarthMetaKnight
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22 Jul 2018, 8:25 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Don't mean to bash Turkey(am eager to visit the place as a tourist someday, and its not like my own USA doesn't have stuff to answer for either-as Darth points out). But the US cant even get our NATO ally Turkey to fight alongside our other allies, the Iraqi Kurds, to help us defeat ISIS in the present day because of Turkey's fear of Turkish Kurdish nationalism/seperatism. So I am not holding my breath waiting for them to come clean about how they treated other minorities in the recent past.


The Kurds, overall, seem to be more left-wing and progressive than the larger Turkish population. That seems to be a major factor.


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22 Jul 2018, 8:32 am

Never expect anyone to acknowledge anything unless it is to show pride about it.


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MaxE
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22 Jul 2018, 9:03 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
In the same way, Americans patriots will often deny the Native American genocide.
I am American and consider myself patriotic, and I would never deny this genocide. However, when I was in school we weren't taught about this, so I suppose there are people who might deny it because they assume that if it were real they would have been told about it in school. I can't say what is typical for Australia or Canada. I don't even know the correct term for what happened in Australia, and I can see how come Canadians might want to think of this as an "American thing" — but I can assure you that in the 19th Century when this was happening, white peoples' attitudes were no different in Canada than in the US.

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Some people try to justify this by claiming that Native Americans are "naturally violent"
I have never heard this claim, in particular with respect to Native Americans. IMO no group of people are more "naturally violent" than white people.


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22 Jul 2018, 9:07 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

The Kurds, overall, seem to be more left-wing and progressive than the larger Turkish population.
This is typical of oppressed minorities everywhere. I doubt it is much of a reflection of Kurdish culture.


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