What do you think about Brexit?

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Good to know.

The British system is truly a mess but I think that is whats to be expect from a type of government not born of revolution.

As much as I am in favour of Brexit its ultimate positive is that it could bring an end to Labour and the Conservatives political Duopoly.

Hopefully as third parties grow stronger more people see we will need electoral reform.

one of the few times we may find ourselves agreeing on a thread about this topic!

Something that could kick up a stink

https://news.sky.com/story/law-keeping-uk-in-eu-will-continue-to-apply-after-brexit-11447180

I'm not entirely sure the UK isn't sending back the message that having fifth-columnist member states which may at one time sort of have wanted to be in the union, but not really, can be a mighty destabilizing pain in the rear end.

i think of it as: we have control over what we vote for but the government have final say on what happens, all we have access to is the vote and lobbying our concerns with riots or protests whatever good or bad that might cause. in the Remain camp, the government will have continued on its path of austerity caused by immigration among other things whilst the Leave side will ensure that immigrants are deported so they give the native population a chance to work in their own country, stop claiming benefits for nothing etc, well that was what my hope for the future was when i voted to leave.

Much of the immigration debate was, IMO, a red herring, it was there to catch people. We always had much more control over EU immigration than we were ever exerting and the Govt were always going to continue letting EU immigrants come here in not too dissimilar numbers. The Mobility Framework proposal in the Chequers plan confirms that in my eyes.

Austerity caused by immigration? Never heard anyone even say such a thing before. Austerity was the choice the Conservative Party took following their election in 2010 and was their way of paying down the national debt. 8 years in and debt is nearly double where it was when they implemented austerity.

That's the nature of debt the its compounds over time. When you are create dependency during a good time dependency will continue to grow during a bad time.

A few 'across the pond' observations of the EU:

1) In some ways they've been trying to approximate what the US has but we had a really unfair advantage - ie. a clean slate and a continent that we could write from scratch. For any place that has thousands of years of history and identity this is nearly impossible.

2) For as few fans as I'd guess Black Pigeon Speaks has here he did raise a really good point in one of his recent videos, ie. the lack of financial fidelity and communal debt-sharing within the EU. If countries are considered to be in charge of their debt but can't inflate/deflate their currencies in response they're in a difficult bind.

3) The EU doesn't just have a wide range of cultures but a whole cluster of countries in the east that were under communist dictatorship until the early 1990's. They have a very different sense of the ride of history as well as a very different sense of their freedoms as well as what it's like when things kick off.


I think the UK had a series of political issues hit it the right way, mostly about autonomy to handle their own problems but also to a fairly large degree with not just immigration but what kind (ie. skilled, unskilled, religiously moderate or radical).

I've heard leave proponents make great points about autonomy done right paying back (Teresa May might assure otherwise from the way things are looking), and I've heard remain proponents speak just as passionately about how badly the UK did itself in economically and that it'll all hit in the next few years.

Any of these things could be true, but I think it's a matter of public will and will of the political class. It sounds like the political class were nearly unanimous remainers and most leave endeavors are getting sabotaged roundly. It's unfortunate, I think that will lead to a lot of bitterness going forward. I've also heard that UKIP registrars are screaming uncle over how big the stack of applications has gotten. It's almost like the UK's Trump where most people seem either really hot, really cold, and not a whole lot in between.

The land that is now the US had thousands of years of history, too. If that is the problem, well, today there are means more effective than ever to obliterate entire societies.

Welcome to the human family. Not particularly pleasant being one of us is it.

nothing would happen..

uks problem and europes problem is still integration of muslims and the long stagnation .

Could be another fascinating day ahead of amendments and motions, depending on which are selected and how the voting goes of course.

The Cooper/Boles and the Brady amendments seem to be the most significant ones.