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HistoryGal
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23 Jul 2018, 10:28 am

Written by and for a bunch of uncivilized desert tribes in the Middle East.



Fnord
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23 Jul 2018, 10:46 am

HistoryGal wrote:
Written by and for a bunch of uncivilized desert tribes in the Middle East.
That's "... uncivilized, patriarchal and xenophobic desert tribes..."


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kraftiekortie
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23 Jul 2018, 10:50 am

Yep...the nature of people in those times (usually)



HistoryGal
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23 Jul 2018, 11:23 am

We shouldn't use them as a metric for our lives today.



kraftiekortie
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23 Jul 2018, 11:49 am

No, we shouldn't

It's the old "context of the times" thing.....



aghogday
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23 Jul 2018, 11:53 am

True; 'They' still live now and even Write;
'Those' Folks from "Old Testament Barbaric Times."

Separating Nomadic Children from their Nomadic Asylum Seeking Parents comes to reality, now, too.

It Just depends mostly still on who is currently in Charge of 'the Pen'; and Yuck, Twitter too; when Huge and Small;
in all ways of Human Soul of Love. Other than that the so-called Barbaric Folks are again inspired to come from
Under Cover; that Usually takes something like the 'Me3' Movie Fulfilled; Yes, Just another Human Prophecy
Self-Fulfilled in Art Ways first; for Truly Successful Artists Understand Most All of Human History and Human
Nature too. So, it's True now too; Bibles are Still Going in Full Swing; even Revelation in the Art of Theater too.


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DarthMetaKnight
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23 Jul 2018, 12:13 pm

HistoryGal wrote:
Written by and for a bunch of uncivilized desert tribes in the Middle East.


Well … it's a bit more complex than that. I don't see why you started a discussion of such a complex topic with a single sentence. All non-mathematical truths are complex.

It is very true that you cannot fully understand the Old Testament unless you think about the society that wrote it. Anyone who reads the Old Testament honestly knows that the book was written by and for Ancient Israelites. Case in Point: The Old Testament spends more time telling Ancient Israelite war stories than it spends talking about Yahweh's miracles. The Old Testament makes it very clear that Yahweh is a masculine badass who protects Israel because he prefers it.

I also think that the phrase "uncivilized desert tribes" is a tad misleading. If we are going to use a literal definition of the term "civilized" (and we should if this is a formal discussion) then the Ancient Israelites were most certainly civilized. They had law, order, agriculture, buildings, and a strict social hierarchy. They were civilized.

Unfortunately, they were also authoritarian. Calling them "uncivilized" implies that they lacked order. They actually did have a lot of order. Their primary problem was that they had too much order and not enough liberty.


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23 Jul 2018, 12:19 pm

Fnord wrote:
HistoryGal wrote:
Written by and for a bunch of uncivilized desert tribes in the Middle East.
That's "... uncivilized, patriarchal and xenophobic desert tribes..."


They did allow strangers into their territory though.

"Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt."
- Exodus 22:21

They were patriarchal as Hell though. For example, if an unmarried women was raped in Ancient Israel, she was typically forced to marry her rapist. If a married woman was raped in Ancient Israel, both the woman and the rapist were put to death.

The Bible also teaches men "Never trust a chick." on several occasions. That's why Samson lost his strength. That's why Adam lost his innocence and his immortality. Both trusted a chick.


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HistoryGal
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23 Jul 2018, 12:57 pm

I don't need anyone's approval to write something. You don't like it? Move on.

Compared to modern times, they were very uncivilized. Other groups at the time were just as bad however their stories aren't used as inspirational text.



DarthMetaKnight
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23 Jul 2018, 1:11 pm

HistoryGal wrote:
I don't need anyone's approval to write something. You don't like it? Move on.


Well … if you are going to start a discussion than I am going to dig deeper. Isn't that the point?

I don't think that you need someone else's approval to write something, but I don't see why I should just ignore anything that I don't like. Why should anyone simply ignore what they don't like?

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Compared to modern times, they were very uncivilized. Other groups at the time were just as bad however their stories aren't used as inspirational text.


Does civilized always equal good? Does uncivilized always equal bad?

Many of the Native American ethnic groups that existed at the time had sex equality, democracy and LGBT rights. They also had no agriculture, meaning that they were technically uncivilized.

That's my objection here. If we are going to be formal, we should use a literal definition of the word "civilized" instead of pretending that civilized societies are not capable of human rights abuses.


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HistoryGal
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23 Jul 2018, 1:26 pm

Uncivilized is not automatically negative. They truly didn't have the scientific knowledge of the human body as we have now....they were afraid of female menstruation....

Why would we to use texts about desert tribes as our source of morality? Native Americans would find that offensive as would others.



DarthMetaKnight
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23 Jul 2018, 2:06 pm

HistoryGal wrote:
Uncivilized is not automatically negative. They truly didn't have the scientific knowledge of the human body as we have now....they were afraid of female menstruation....


Perhaps they punished menstruating women because they just hated women. It was a very macho culture.

It could have just been a misunderstanding … but hate was probably involved, given how vast this misunderstanding was.

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Why would we to use texts about desert tribes as our source of morality? Native Americans would find that offensive as would others.


Humans have natural altruistic urges. Altruism is built into our DNA. Even apes display altruism, so we don't need religion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQCOHUXmEZg

R.I.P. Koko 1971 - 2018


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HistoryGal
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23 Jul 2018, 2:37 pm

Right. We don't need religion to make us altruistic. Like any other trait. It's on a curve.



kraftiekortie
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23 Jul 2018, 2:54 pm

The point is....is that we shouldn't rely solely on the tenets of an ancient tribe, or tribes, or even the Greeks and Romans, in the formation of our morality.

One's morality should take into account many things, and the tenets of many cultures.

Just like Americans shouldn't live solely according to the tenets of the 18th century constitution.



HistoryGal
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23 Jul 2018, 3:03 pm

Thank you, Kraftie.