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Florida's "Stand Your Ground" Law Now Being Scrutinized

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LoveNotHate
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16 Aug 2018, 12:06 am

kokopelli wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
(1) Unless otherwise provided by law, whenever a person is charged with a felony, except a felony in which the use of a weapon or firearm is an essential element, and during the commission of such felony the defendant carries, displays, uses, threatens to use, or attempts to use any weapon or firearm, or during the commission of such felony the defendant commits an aggravated battery, the felony for which the person is charged shall be reclassified as follows:

You missed an important criteria.

" except a felony in which the use of a weapon or firearm is an essential element"

He's being charged with a felony in which a firearm is an essential element, so what you cite is not relevant.


I saw that and think that you are misinterpreting what that means.

As I understand it, what constitutes an "essential element" of the crime are the things that the prosecution MUST prove for a conviction. That is, they must show an intent to kill the victim. He clearly had that at the moment he pulled the trigger -- the pull of the trigger was not an accident. They must show that he caused the death of the victim. I think that the use of a firearm was a way to carry out the killing of the victim, not an "essential element" of the crime itself.

I may be wrong on this, but if I am, then the State Attorney would not have charged him under that section.

You're compounding your misunderstandings.

"Manslaughter" does not require "intent".

So, the prosecutor does not have to "prove intent".

The use of a firearm is obviously an essential part of this felony, since it's the means of committing this felony.

Manslaughter is only 15 years (second degree). A determination of "aggravated manslaughter" may get him 30 years (first degree).
https://statelaws.findlaw.com/florida-l ... -laws.html

"The maximum sentence he could face is 30 years in prison".
https://www.wral.com/florida-prosecutor ... /17767153/

"The maximum sentence he could face is 30 years in prison".
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/13/us/f ... oting.html

"Faces up to 30 years in prison"
https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-man- ... 02860.html

"faces charges that could bring up to 30 years in prison"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... d49d340a1d

"a felony that carries up to 30 years in prison"
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/mic ... sn-n900406


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thoughtbeast
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16 Aug 2018, 7:32 am

GoFundMe takes down perp benefit page

Quote:
The Community Management Team at GoFundMe sent Creelman the following regarding his fundraiser being taken down:

Hello,

Thank you for your patience.

Your campaign is in violation of this line from our Terms & Conditions:

"campaigns deemed by GoFundMe, in its sole discretion, to be in support of, or for the legal defense of alleged crimes associated with hate, violence, harassment, bullying, discrimination, terrorism, or intolerance of any kind relating to race, ethnicity, national origin, religious affiliation, sexual orientation, sex, gender or gender identity, or serious disabilities or diseases;"

You may use another crowdfunding site for this cause, but it cannot be on GoFundMe.

We have removed your account. Any donations made to your campaign that have not already been withdrawn have been refunded and will be returned to your donors within 3-7 business days.

Regards,

Oliver

Community Management Team


"GoFundMe took down Creelman’s first page and his attempts to put it back up. Comments became racial...Before GoFundMe took down the bail raising page, it had garnered $236 in donations."



kokopelli
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16 Aug 2018, 9:54 am

auntblabby wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
^^^^ :star: happy bday :star:


Thank you.

I'm now fixing my birthday feast:
1) Field peas with ham chunks
2) Mashed potatoes
3) Chicken strips breaded like I do for chicken fried steak
4) Cream gravy

And to top it off
5) Butter Pecan Ice Cream

sounds yummy :chef:


It is. I can make an entire meal out of field peas with ham or sausage chunks and mashed potatoes. My breaded chicken strips are better than any chicken strips I've ever eaten anywhere else. I may not have enough room for it all.


dumb question but I gotta ask it, are "field" peas ones you go out into the field to pick?


Field peas look like black-eyed peas, but are much better.

The story goes that during the Civil War, the Northern Troops raided the southern farms for food at every opportunity. They took the field peas but left the black-eyed peas because the black-eyed peas were seen as only good for livestock feed. Consequently, the black-eyed peas were eaten by the South and came to be seen as a classic food of the South.

I've eaten some good black-eyed peas, but I've never cooked them and had them come out very good. Field peas are far better.



kokopelli
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16 Aug 2018, 9:58 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
(1) Unless otherwise provided by law, whenever a person is charged with a felony, except a felony in which the use of a weapon or firearm is an essential element, and during the commission of such felony the defendant carries, displays, uses, threatens to use, or attempts to use any weapon or firearm, or during the commission of such felony the defendant commits an aggravated battery, the felony for which the person is charged shall be reclassified as follows:

You missed an important criteria.

" except a felony in which the use of a weapon or firearm is an essential element"

He's being charged with a felony in which a firearm is an essential element, so what you cite is not relevant.


I saw that and think that you are misinterpreting what that means.

As I understand it, what constitutes an "essential element" of the crime are the things that the prosecution MUST prove for a conviction. That is, they must show an intent to kill the victim. He clearly had that at the moment he pulled the trigger -- the pull of the trigger was not an accident. They must show that he caused the death of the victim. I think that the use of a firearm was a way to carry out the killing of the victim, not an "essential element" of the crime itself.

I may be wrong on this, but if I am, then the State Attorney would not have charged him under that section.

You're compounding your misunderstandings.

"Manslaughter" does not require "intent".

So, the prosecutor does not have to "prove intent".

The use of a firearm is obviously an essential part of this felony, since it's the means of committing this felony.

Manslaughter is only 15 years (second degree). A determination of "aggravated manslaughter" may get him 30 years (first degree).
https://statelaws.findlaw.com/florida-l ... -laws.html

"The maximum sentence he could face is 30 years in prison".
https://www.wral.com/florida-prosecutor ... /17767153/

"The maximum sentence he could face is 30 years in prison".
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/13/us/f ... oting.html

"Faces up to 30 years in prison"
https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-man- ... 02860.html

"faces charges that could bring up to 30 years in prison"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... d49d340a1d

"a felony that carries up to 30 years in prison"
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/mic ... sn-n900406


Good point on intent not being an essential element of the crime of manslaughter. I stand corrected on that.

As for the sentencing enhancement, apparently they have a separate charge of "manslaughter with a firearm" in which either the use of a firearm is an essential element they must prove and so there is no sentence enhancement or which explicitly includes the sentencing escalation.

Thanks.



auntblabby
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16 Aug 2018, 9:31 pm

kokopelli wrote:
Field peas are far better.

I will have to see if my local wally world has any.



Arganger
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16 Aug 2018, 10:02 pm

Looking at the video, the black guy shoved the white guy rather aggressively, but did clearly back off before being shot.

Both have fault in it. What would make more sense to me, is a minimum sentence.

The black guy was clearly about to hurt the person before he pulled out his gun, and the white guy made an extremely bad judgement, and seeing as he is carrying a gun, NEEDS to have better judgement.


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