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Erewhon
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08 Jun 2020, 9:47 am

Have Robots a Free Will?

Maybe a weird question, but I like weird non-everyday questions. Now I don't want to skim over all robots, deep down I also see people as a robot, albeit one of flesh and blood and not electronics. So the robots I mean are the electronic variants. I am not sure but I don't think a robot has a consciousness, so that nonexistent consciousness does not fool the robot's subconscious for the simple reason that it is not present. In that sense, an electronic robot has more autonomy in my view than a homo sapien.
In my opinion, something a robot can show is that people do not have free will, people cannot do that of themselves, but Fmri scanner can do that in an autonomous way.
In my view, humans do not "make" robots, humans "arises" robots. I do not belief that people are born in the near future with electronics in their bodies, but that humans will no longer be livable without robots within about 500 years i believe. The so-called external limbs. Well, I have not yet answered the question whether robots have free will.
No, since robots are an extension of humans they don't seem to have free will in the current age, but they don't have an awareness that fools them that they would have free will.

Image

I'm just dubing and something sprouted from my mind, maybe I contradict myself but I just thought.

"Where are no atoms, there is free will"



Erewhon
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07 Dec 2020, 1:46 am

My english is poor, so my brain did not get everything in this video.
But what my brain did get in the video my brain is agree.



auntblabby
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08 Dec 2020, 5:25 pm

i always suspected at some level that free will is bogus.



Erewhon
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22 Feb 2021, 6:24 am

Coincidence and free will go together, just as determinism and no free will also go together.
Not every detail is causal to every other detail, every detail has a correlation with every other detail. And in my opinion everything is causal with everything
Free will determinism, randomness, logic, nature, evolution can be placed under the heading "Dust". Now I do not know whether you can define that Heisenberg laser beam under the heading of "dust".
Suppose Heisenberg's experiment is true, then zoomed in or zoomed out I will come to things that are no coincidence.
All we are dust in the wind, says the Kansas song. Does dust in the wind have free will? Does the wind in which matter moves have free will? Can the West wind 'on its own' determine that tomorrow it will blow from the North-East corner instead of the West?

A puppet has the property that it is controlled by external factors, if he / she controlled himself it was simply not a puppet. With some 'magical thinking' you can give a puppet the tools that he himself is literally and figuratively in control. Is a puppet different from a robot? I don't see many differences. This morning I was reminded of a robot exhibition that I visited in Eindhoven a few years ago. At this exhibition I came across a performance of dolls that other dolls made. There was a doll that had lost its arm, and another doll went with needle and thread to tinker this disabled doll's arm together. I found that a very intriguing image, a doll who helped his fellow doll as a surgeon.

https://youtu.be/ScVmTg-TRas?t=2416

A free will puppet might come across as double.
But that duality is also exactly what I mean.
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22 Feb 2021, 7:14 am

I have yet to encounter scientific evidence of the existence of free will.

And while there are many mysterious occurrences in the universe which we fundamentally do not understand, I simply do not see the psychology of a species of bipedal mostly hairless mammals living on the third rock from a star in the outskirts of the Milky Way as one such mystery.


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kraftiekortie
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22 Feb 2021, 7:18 am

Free will is a matter of degrees. Nobody has total free will. Nobody has total lack of free will, either.

I, myself, probably have 75% free will. Somebody from Nigeria probably has a lot less.



auntblabby
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22 Feb 2021, 7:25 am

the fact that i can't seem to become a neat, organized, tidy person forevermore, tells me all i need to know about the lack of free will in my life.



kraftiekortie
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22 Feb 2021, 7:31 am

Same here, pretty much.



Erewhon
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22 Feb 2021, 3:36 pm

auntblabby wrote:
the fact that i can't seem to become a neat, organized, tidy person forevermore, tells me all i need to know about the lack of free will in my life.



@ Auntblabby
You use the word 'me' in your post
In the context of the issue of free will, it is important to first be clear about what you mean by 'me'. And once you have that clear, the crucial question is how the mechanism is that makes 'me'

Kraftiekortie confuses the concept of free will with the concept of freedom in my view. Free will and freedom are two different things. Indeed, people from the rich west have much more freedom than most people from Nigeria or another poor country. But thats not what 'free will' means.

Did Albert Einstein have the free will te be not intelligent :?:

Einstein was a genius, but in my view he did not have the power to be not intelligent.



techstepgenr8tion
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22 Feb 2021, 3:39 pm

GGPViper wrote:
I have yet to encounter scientific evidence of the existence of free will.

It's incoherent in any causal sense.


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kraftiekortie
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22 Feb 2021, 7:01 pm

When one has more "freedom," one has the opportunity for a more comprehensive life consisting of considerable "free will."



techstepgenr8tion
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22 Feb 2021, 7:30 pm

Erewhon wrote:
Kraftiekortie confuses the concept of free will with the concept of freedom in my view. Free will and freedom are two different things. Indeed, people from the rich west have much more freedom than most people from Nigeria or another poor country. But thats not what 'free will' means.

On the philosophy forums I've been on it seems to be a debate over what the meaning of 'free will' is. Some even have suggested that since determinism is ubiquitous that it's meaningless / irrelevant - I try to wrap my head around how they make that move and it seems like they're clawing at the walls. I think determinism is really all I mean by saying that I don't believe free will is a thing.

It's a completely different question IMHO between coerced and non-coerced choice, or what options you have available with more money vs. less. It's really a question of 'given you in state x at time a1, literally could you have either ended up in state y or state z at time a2 with some unequal probability', there's some mystery in physics about probability but I'd side with no - you really had 100% chance of whatever you actually chose because it was seen as the best choice given the exact circumstances at time x.


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kraftiekortie
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22 Feb 2021, 7:36 pm

There is only "relative free will." It is almost impossible for one to have "total free will" constantly.



techstepgenr8tion
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22 Feb 2021, 7:43 pm

I think what people are interested in is what a person's actions tells you about them and where the limits on the value of their behaviors can be drawn, and I suppose for others it's 'how much of an internal locus of control or internal accountability gets ludicrous'.

At base level of reality - if not superdeterminism it's basic determinism with random fuzz (which I'm not entirely sold on as being a thing). Past that upward we seem to have the agendas of our pieces, parts, genes, and whatever various levels of personality that we've fashioned through life. For that second layer though, operating in a deterministic universe, I can't help but get the feeling that calling that free will also confuses the issue. Too many people mean literal free will by the term free will.


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22 Feb 2021, 9:16 pm

Lololololzzzzz.......... has a quizzical look on her face as she scrolls through this thread. 8O


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auntblabby
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22 Feb 2021, 10:24 pm

Jakki wrote:
Lololololzzzzz.......... has a quizzical look on her face as she scrolls through this thread. 8O

it will pass as it dawns on you that you have just entered..... the twilight zone... :skull: