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AspE
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29 Aug 2018, 7:19 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Though Lincoln saw Natives as sub human.

Still human, albeit some other form. He opposed the confederacy, and for that we forgive him. You are defending the confederacy by insinuating that genuinely opposite moral sides are in fact morally equal.

You will remain unforgiven.



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30 Aug 2018, 12:40 pm

AspE wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Though Lincoln saw Natives as sub human.

Still human, albeit some other form. He opposed the confederacy, and for that we forgive him. You are defending the confederacy by insinuating that genuinely opposite moral sides are in fact morally equal.

You will remain unforgiven.


I concur with AspE. You have mentioned that you're not a Trump supporter, but in reality, you are yet you just won't admit it.

White nationalism is a form of racism and should always be avoided, regardless of the costs.


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JohnPowell
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30 Aug 2018, 12:52 pm

AspE wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Though Lincoln saw Natives as sub human.

Still human, albeit some other form. He opposed the confederacy, and for that we forgive him. You are defending the confederacy by insinuating that genuinely opposite moral sides are in fact morally equal.

You will remain unforgiven.


I don't care. I can hold my head up high not making excuses and championing racist mass murderers.


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JohnPowell
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30 Aug 2018, 12:54 pm

AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
AspE wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Though Lincoln saw Natives as sub human.

Still human, albeit some other form. He opposed the confederacy, and for that we forgive him. You are defending the confederacy by insinuating that genuinely opposite moral sides are in fact morally equal.

You will remain unforgiven.


I concur with AspE. You have mentioned that you're not a Trump supporter, but in reality, you are yet you just won't admit it.

White nationalism is a form of racism and should always be avoided, regardless of the costs.


You know my mind best right? If you don't want white nationalism then stop the causes. Mass immigration and wars being the main ones.


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AspE
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30 Aug 2018, 3:18 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
I don't care. I can hold my head up high not making excuses and championing racist mass murderers.

No you can't. The state government responsible for erecting confederate statues was based on racist terrorism... Decades after the civil war. They represent a population that championed lynching.



Mythos
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31 Aug 2018, 10:22 am

JohnPowell wrote:
AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
AspE wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Though Lincoln saw Natives as sub human.

Still human, albeit some other form. He opposed the confederacy, and for that we forgive him. You are defending the confederacy by insinuating that genuinely opposite moral sides are in fact morally equal.

You will remain unforgiven.


I concur with AspE. You have mentioned that you're not a Trump supporter, but in reality, you are yet you just won't admit it.

White nationalism is a form of racism and should always be avoided, regardless of the costs.


You know my mind best right? If you don't want white nationalism then stop the causes. Mass immigration and wars being the main ones.
Hm, white nationalism as I understand it is the idea of blaming other races for your and your own nations inadequacies. For example, losing work to immigrants is a nationalist issue but this neglects the fact that those same immigrants might actually be well qualified and more intelligent, better disciplined, easier to work with, more polite, more willing, etc. Another is strain on taxes but immigrants pay taxes possibly as much or even more than born and raised citizens.

Of course, the biggest concern right now is terrorism. However, with all the school shootings perpetrated by white, born and raised citizens, people realise there are more pressing matters. Gun laws, for one.

As for wars, there is no domestic war in the US. Middle eastern wars, those that are often at the centre of the media coverage, can't easily be controlled by external nations. I wish it could, and I wish it would stop. There's very little besides foreign aid in the form of care packages, relief workers and the like which nations in the western world can provide. Nobody wants to get involved because, in my opinion, there's no "good" side. A lot of those involved are capable of atrocities. Myanmar is a prime example of such war crimes (if you can even call it a war).

With all this said, how does it affect the western world and white nationalists?



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31 Aug 2018, 11:10 am

AspE wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
I don't care. I can hold my head up high not making excuses and championing racist mass murderers.

No you can't. The state government responsible for erecting confederate statues was based on racist terrorism... Decades after the civil war. They represent a population that championed lynching.


Like you said, everyone was racist in those days. What were the man in question's crimes?


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31 Aug 2018, 11:15 am

The war torn countries the people are fleeing from have all been started by the West. Pretending it is just some in fighting from nowhere is ludicrous.
Yes, white nationalists are just as much identitarians as hysterical liberals. The difference is they have good cause for their anger. Especially in Europe. Neoliberal policies have destroyed the working class and so has mass immigration. Alleged refugees that have been poured into Sweden has completely destroyed parts of the country and it has seen a rise in the far right in Sweden. This was never a problem there.


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31 Aug 2018, 2:32 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Neoliberal policies have destroyed the working class and so has mass immigration


'destroyed'??? :lol: Stop being so bloody hysterical.

I am working class and don't feel very 'destroyed'



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31 Aug 2018, 3:58 pm

Fair enough. Destroyed was a strong word but certain industries have been destroyed and people's life's.


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31 Aug 2018, 4:33 pm

Biscuitman wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Neoliberal policies have destroyed the working class and so has mass immigration


'destroyed'??? :lol: Stop being so bloody hysterical.

I am working class and don't feel very 'destroyed'


Are you sure you’re not a victim of the brainwashing media that is making your decisions and opinions for you? 8O

Jk. Trumpsters man, they’re in a whole other universe. They remind me of the Netflix show ‘Ozarks.’ :D



Mythos
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31 Aug 2018, 8:40 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
The war torn countries the people are fleeing from have all been started by the West. Pretending it is just some in fighting from nowhere is ludicrous.

Some were, some weren't. It depends on the situation. For example, the case that I mentioned about the Myanmar ethnic cleansing I don't think can be tied to the west. At least, I wouldn't know how it could.

Another is the tensions between Palestine and Israel. Again, maybe there is western influence but I still think this is largely unique to their nations, cultures and beliefs.

Pretty much all wars rely on greed, and black gold is often the centrepiece of this. As a result, wars can often be started by anybody within the confines of middle eastern nations.


Yes, white nationalists are just as much identitarians as hysterical liberals.

Comparing white nationalists to liberals is ridiculous. I don't see how improving welfare, public services and reducing inequality is "hysterical". These are legitimate issues. What genuine concern do nationalists have beside their own bias?

The difference is they have good cause for their anger. Especially in Europe.

Not really. These kinds of individuals are often not particularly critical of themselves. They make mistakes, then blame the immigrants. All the while, domestic terrorism (because that's what it is) is not going anywhere. Rid ourselves of the foreigners, and keep the guns coming (I know it may be a stretch to conflate nationalists with guns, but in America they seem to go hand in hand). This is antithetical to problem solving.

Neoliberal policies have destroyed the working class and so has mass immigration.

Where? I don't understand how liberal policy could damage the working class, especially the public sector where I assume most of those jobs are found. Surely, as an ideology advancing the cause of public services, they'd be forwarding the growth of working class positions?

Alleged refugees that have been poured into Sweden has completely destroyed parts of the country and it has seen a rise in the far right in Sweden. This was never a problem there.

The hysteria over Sweden, the far right go-to talking point, has shown to be heavily exaggerated time after time. For example, stories of sexual assault rising. I also find it concerning that you blame immigration for the rise of the far right. Most fringe ideologies become mainstream out of ignorance and propaganda, not legitimate concerns. Islamophobia (something I don't personally believe in, since I just refer to it as xenophobia, but relevant regardless) is likely the leading cause of this influx of support. People see a Muslim, they expect the worst. It's simply hate filled and misleading, and does nought to address very serious issues such as corporate corruption, bigotry, poverty, gender and race inequality, etc.



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02 Sep 2018, 8:08 am

Mythos wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
The war torn countries the people are fleeing from have all been started by the West. Pretending it is just some in fighting from nowhere is ludicrous.

Some were, some weren't. It depends on the situation. For example, the case that I mentioned about the Myanmar ethnic cleansing I don't think can be tied to the west. At least, I wouldn't know how it could.

Another is the tensions between Palestine and Israel. Again, maybe there is western influence but I still think this is largely unique to their nations, cultures and beliefs.

Pretty much all wars rely on greed, and black gold is often the centrepiece of this. As a result, wars can often be started by anybody within the confines of middle eastern nations.


Yes, white nationalists are just as much identitarians as hysterical liberals.

Comparing white nationalists to liberals is ridiculous. I don't see how improving welfare, public services and reducing inequality is "hysterical". These are legitimate issues. What genuine concern do nationalists have beside their own bias?

The difference is they have good cause for their anger. Especially in Europe.

Not really. These kinds of individuals are often not particularly critical of themselves. They make mistakes, then blame the immigrants. All the while, domestic terrorism (because that's what it is) is not going anywhere. Rid ourselves of the foreigners, and keep the guns coming (I know it may be a stretch to conflate nationalists with guns, but in America they seem to go hand in hand). This is antithetical to problem solving.

Neoliberal policies have destroyed the working class and so has mass immigration.

Where? I don't understand how liberal policy could damage the working class, especially the public sector where I assume most of those jobs are found. Surely, as an ideology advancing the cause of public services, they'd be forwarding the growth of working class positions?

Alleged refugees that have been poured into Sweden has completely destroyed parts of the country and it has seen a rise in the far right in Sweden. This was never a problem there.

The hysteria over Sweden, the far right go-to talking point, has shown to be heavily exaggerated time after time. For example, stories of sexual assault rising. I also find it concerning that you blame immigration for the rise of the far right. Most fringe ideologies become mainstream out of ignorance and propaganda, not legitimate concerns. Islamophobia (something I don't personally believe in, since I just refer to it as xenophobia, but relevant regardless) is likely the leading cause of this influx of support. People see a Muslim, they expect the worst. It's simply hate filled and misleading, and does nought to address very serious issues such as corporate corruption, bigotry, poverty, gender and race inequality, etc.



There is US businesses involved in every region, crushing anything that helps the people of the region.

"Another is the tensions between Palestine and Israel. Again, maybe there is western influence but I still think this is largely unique to their nations, cultures and beliefs."

:lol: Maybe? It was a British politician that promised one set of people a land that belonged to a second set of people on behalf of a third set of people. The US gives Israel over $10 million a day. The UK sells them weapons. The US vetoes any chance of peace. We support the massacres and blockade of Gaza and the ethnic cleansing.

Nationalists for the most part care about their country. Where as a lot of liberals care about getting free stuff for themselves.

Neoliberal policies that push global corporations across the world helping the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. It might help the "economy" just screws the people.

Sweden didn't have gang ghettos like they do now. Gang rapes. I can show you the documentary if you like. Numerous men threaten the woman interviewer.


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Mythos
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02 Sep 2018, 1:22 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Mythos wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
The war torn countries the people are fleeing from have all been started by the West. Pretending it is just some in fighting from nowhere is ludicrous.

Some were, some weren't. It depends on the situation. For example, the case that I mentioned about the Myanmar ethnic cleansing I don't think can be tied to the west. At least, I wouldn't know how it could.

Another is the tensions between Palestine and Israel. Again, maybe there is western influence but I still think this is largely unique to their nations, cultures and beliefs.

Pretty much all wars rely on greed, and black gold is often the centrepiece of this. As a result, wars can often be started by anybody within the confines of middle eastern nations.


Yes, white nationalists are just as much identitarians as hysterical liberals.

Comparing white nationalists to liberals is ridiculous. I don't see how improving welfare, public services and reducing inequality is "hysterical". These are legitimate issues. What genuine concern do nationalists have beside their own bias?

The difference is they have good cause for their anger. Especially in Europe.

Not really. These kinds of individuals are often not particularly critical of themselves. They make mistakes, then blame the immigrants. All the while, domestic terrorism (because that's what it is) is not going anywhere. Rid ourselves of the foreigners, and keep the guns coming (I know it may be a stretch to conflate nationalists with guns, but in America they seem to go hand in hand). This is antithetical to problem solving.

Neoliberal policies have destroyed the working class and so has mass immigration.

Where? I don't understand how liberal policy could damage the working class, especially the public sector where I assume most of those jobs are found. Surely, as an ideology advancing the cause of public services, they'd be forwarding the growth of working class positions?

Alleged refugees that have been poured into Sweden has completely destroyed parts of the country and it has seen a rise in the far right in Sweden. This was never a problem there.

The hysteria over Sweden, the far right go-to talking point, has shown to be heavily exaggerated time after time. For example, stories of sexual assault rising. I also find it concerning that you blame immigration for the rise of the far right. Most fringe ideologies become mainstream out of ignorance and propaganda, not legitimate concerns. Islamophobia (something I don't personally believe in, since I just refer to it as xenophobia, but relevant regardless) is likely the leading cause of this influx of support. People see a Muslim, they expect the worst. It's simply hate filled and misleading, and does nought to address very serious issues such as corporate corruption, bigotry, poverty, gender and race inequality, etc.



There is US businesses involved in every region, crushing anything that helps the people of the region.

Regulation is necessary. Capitalism is the problem.

"Another is the tensions between Palestine and Israel. Again, maybe there is western influence but I still think this is largely unique to their nations, cultures and beliefs."

:lol: Maybe? It was a British politician that promised one set of people a land that belonged to a second set of people on behalf of a third set of people. The US gives Israel over $10 million a day. The UK sells them weapons. The US vetoes any chance of peace. We support the massacres and blockade of Gaza and the ethnic cleansing.

It's still their politics that lead this way. Of course it involves other nations, basically every war does to some degree, but this is about responsibility and taking responsibility. Largely, it's down to the individual nations to negotiate peace and not other nations.

Nationalists for the most part care about their country. Where as a lot of liberals care about getting free stuff for themselves.

Pretty ridiculous claim propagated by staunch capitalists. Healthcare, education and transport isn't "free stuff", it's necessities that allow people to live their lives happily and healthily. Anything else is dangerously close to a breach in human rights. Not giving people vital surgery when they pay taxes themselves is fairly ridiculous. No nation other than the US (and perhaps a small minority of other outliers) seems to think this is OK.

Nationalists may care about their country, but how is this an excuse for outright racism and xenophobia, and how does it in any way excuse their aggressive and obscene behaviour? It doesn't, and claiming they're better than liberals in any way is almost demonstrably and objectively false.


Neoliberal policies that push global corporations across the world helping the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. It might help the "economy" just screws the people.

Again, this is capitalism. Pretty different.

Sweden didn't have gang ghettos like they do now. Gang rapes. I can show you the documentary if you like. Numerous men threaten the woman interviewer.

I'll be disappointed if this isn't some ridiculously biased neocon propaganda.



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04 Sep 2018, 8:42 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
AspE wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
I don't care. I can hold my head up high not making excuses and championing racist mass murderers.

No you can't. The state government responsible for erecting confederate statues was based on racist terrorism... Decades after the civil war. They represent a population that championed lynching.


Like you said, everyone was racist in those days. What were the man in question's crimes?

Murder and torture of African-Americans.