Post midterm elections scenarios/predictions

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LoveNotHate
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05 Sep 2018, 11:19 pm

Spooky_Mulder wrote:
So Trump is going to raise taxes on the rich to give to the poor which is the intent, but raise taxes period?

Trump is going to raise minimum wage to fifteen dollars?

Trade deals you’ve got, the rest? Nope.

Again you are incorrectly stating Trump’s immigration platform is socialist when it runs completely contrary to the platform.

As stated socialist groups around the world are the most actively anti-Trump. :lol: Trumpsters view us as evil. Socialists and Trump supporters would both agree you’re using the term wrong - one of the fews things we would agree on.

Socialists around the word are tied to trade unions, worker's groups and their main goal is to protect the worker. Protect the worker's pay, protect the worker's job, protect work conditions, protect from "cheap labor" ….

In the last election , the largest labor union, the AFL-CIO members voted 10 points more for Trump. This time they may fully endorse him.

Trade unions, workers groups STRONGLY support Trump. These are the Socialist-minded people.

-Trump ended "cheap labor" immigration programs
-Trump ended free trade deals
-Trump enacted tariffs to protect jobs
-Trump implemented the "Pro-Job Initiative" a pledge to American workers
-Trump created the "American Workforce Policy Advisory Board" to help train workers
-Trump signed executive orders on "pro-America" trade policy (protecting non-government American workers)
-Trump signed "Buy, American, Hire America" executive order
And so on …

Trump the Socialist and the Populist
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-a-t ... 87354.html

George Will actually said, "I am leaving the Republican party, because I am a conservative".


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Spooky_Mulder
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05 Sep 2018, 11:33 pm

Still - :lol: .

Name one politically socialist organization that backs Trump. 'Nuff said.



Spooky_Mulder
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05 Sep 2018, 11:36 pm

The AFL-CIO’s, hmm?

AFL-CIO according to the World Socialist Website:

Quote:
The AFL-CIO’s foreign affairs department collaborated with the CIA and the State Department to set up anti-socialist, pro-American unions around the world and prop up pro-US dictatorships in Latin America, Asia and elsewhere. Meany was a virulent supporter of the Vietnam War.


So pro-socialist. :roll:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2009/09/pers-s18.html



LoveNotHate
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06 Sep 2018, 2:03 am

Spooky_Mulder wrote:
The AFL-CIO’s, hmm?

AFL-CIO according to the World Socialist Website:

Quote:
The AFL-CIO’s foreign affairs department collaborated with the CIA and the State Department to set up anti-socialist, pro-American unions around the world and prop up pro-US dictatorships in Latin America, Asia and elsewhere. Meany was a virulent supporter of the Vietnam War.


So pro-socialist. :roll:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2009/09/pers-s18.html

Again, you're confusing "Socialism" with "Socialist economics". Labor unions advocate "socialist economics" regardless of whether they're true blue socialists.

Also, you're coming across a juvenile who wants to win a semantic argument, and not discuss the substance of what I said.

WHAT I SAID EARLIER wrote:
I see the Dems as having the same problem as before.

Trump is a populist entertainer with Socialist economics, and front-runner Dems are mostly boring, career politicians with conservative economics.

Trump gives them .......

AFL-CIO leader Richard Trumka offers qualified support for Trump's trade policies
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 879845002/

AFL-CIO lauds Trump's tariffs
http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... se-tariffs

AFL-CIO President Likes Where Revised NAFTA Deal Is Headed
https://www.npr.org/2018/08/29/64289664 ... -is-headed

AFL-CIO Open to Endorsing Trump in 2020
https://freebeacon.com/politics/afl-cio ... rump-2020/


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ASPartOfMe
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06 Sep 2018, 2:26 am

Spooky_Mulder wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
How many 60 year olds go out and riot?


60 year olds aren't the problem. Young cosplay Alt-Reich cry babies who march through towns with loser flags while carrying tiki torches, hitting people with cars, and causing a spike in hates crimes - are.

Make no mistake, the second Trump gets out there is going to be a lot of violence the likes of which will make Charlottesville look like child's play (this isn't because of the normal right-wing base or religious base, rather KKK/Neo-Nazis/Far Right). This is because they saw the opportunity of their big white supremacist takeover coming to light - to only have it be grabbed away by what they believe is the deep state (Ruby Ridge, Waco, ring a bell? These groups being in paranoid militias afraid of deep states isn't new - Oklahoma City Bombing, etc) - it is gonna be rough.

However, I have honest to God faith that the FBI is already aware of this and is already taking all the necessary precautions. After all, the far right is responsible for the most terrorist attacks statistically within the United States - these groups are showing the same paranoia patterns which have led to disasters in the past (beliefs in "deep states"), their growing violence is already noticeable in FBI hate crime statistics, and some extremists view Trump as a beckoning for the "race war" they longed for. All of that isn't going to lead to kumbaiya. As said though, I have faith in the FBI.


The alt left for lack of a better term has many more people in the amoung the under 35’s young and healthy and no job and family to protect then the alt right. The biggest potential threat from the right is how does the military personal react. Enforce the order to crack down on people like them or not. You might get a few splashy terrorist attacks but will it be anything sustained. Will a bunch of disaffected unemployed Trumpian workers start siezeing polling place demanding a recount?


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 06 Sep 2018, 2:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

auntblabby
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06 Sep 2018, 2:39 am

two possibilities that can't be termed "impossible," are civil war followed in short order by federal imposition of martial law. I did not believe i'd live long enough to fear this.



ASPartOfMe
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06 Sep 2018, 2:54 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Lots of headlines likely to occur between then and now so I suppose it depends who has more bombshells in their pockets.

That said, I really don't think blue wave or overwhelming conservative victory are likely. Dems, whether they want it or not, suffer for anything that goes on at the far left as much as Republicans do for the far right. My guess is if there are Dem nominees they'll be much more center-left.

I see the Dems as having the same problem as before.

Trump is a populist entertainer with Socialist economics, and front-runner Dems are mostly boring, career politicians with conservative economics.


In 2016 there was massive wishcasting instead of forecasting. People had it so in there heads that Trump could not win that they did not look at what the polls were actually indicating. The meta polls had Hillary up by 3 or 4 points just before the election she won by 2 points well within the margin of error and just close enough to swing the electoral college.

In the midterms there is no electoral college and we are far beyond the margin of error and the non polling indicators are blue. To put it another way if the Democrats do not take control of the House it would be a far greater upset then 2016.

2020 is another story. It will depend on the economy, how both sides act and react in the next two years, unforeseen circumstances. It is too far out, that is why I limited my 3 scenarios to the midterms.


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Spooky_Mulder
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06 Sep 2018, 8:04 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Spooky_Mulder wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
How many 60 year olds go out and riot?


60 year olds aren't the problem. Young cosplay Alt-Reich cry babies who march through towns with loser flags while carrying tiki torches, hitting people with cars, and causing a spike in hates crimes - are.

Make no mistake, the second Trump gets out there is going to be a lot of violence the likes of which will make Charlottesville look like child's play (this isn't because of the normal right-wing base or religious base, rather KKK/Neo-Nazis/Far Right). This is because they saw the opportunity of their big white supremacist takeover coming to light - to only have it be grabbed away by what they believe is the deep state (Ruby Ridge, Waco, ring a bell? These groups being in paranoid militias afraid of deep states isn't new - Oklahoma City Bombing, etc) - it is gonna be rough.

However, I have honest to God faith that the FBI is already aware of this and is already taking all the necessary precautions. After all, the far right is responsible for the most terrorist attacks statistically within the United States - these groups are showing the same paranoia patterns which have led to disasters in the past (beliefs in "deep states"), their growing violence is already noticeable in FBI hate crime statistics, and some extremists view Trump as a beckoning for the "race war" they longed for. All of that isn't going to lead to kumbaiya. As said though, I have faith in the FBI.


The alt left for lack of a better term has many more people in the amoung the under 35’s young and healthy and no job and family to protect then the alt right. The biggest potential threat from the right is how does the military personal react. Enforce the order to crack down on people like them or not. You might get a few splashy terrorist attacks but will it be anything sustained. Will a bunch of disaffected unemployed Trumpian workers start siezeing polling place demanding a recount?


Statistics speak for themselves - the far right statistically cause the most domestic terrorist attacks in the United States. Close to double, if not triple, of the left.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2 ... dafa141e74



Spooky_Mulder
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06 Sep 2018, 8:07 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Also, you're coming across a juvenile who wants to win a semantic argument, and not discuss the substance of what I said.


As said,

Trump is going to raise taxes?

Trump is going to raise minimum wage to $15?

You are aware that the socialist economic platform is a lot more than trade deals, right?

You're generalizing in extremes to try to make a point where there is none.

All platforms the economic Trump platforms would never do and in bold the ones Democrats stand in line with:

Quote:
We call for worker and community ownership and control of corporations within the framework of a decentralized and democratically determined economic plan.

We call for a minimum wage of $15 per hour, indexed to the cost of living.

We call for a full employment policy. We support the provision of a livable guaranteed annual income.


We call for all financial and insurance institutions to be socially owned and operated by a democratically-controlled national banking authority, which should include credit unions, mutual insurance cooperatives, and cooperative state banks. In the meantime, we call for reregulation of the banking and insurance industries.

We call for a steeply graduated income tax and a steeply graduated estate tax, and a maximum income of no more than ten times the minimum. We oppose regressive taxes such as payroll tax, sales tax [Democrat Ben Jealous just came out as in support of rolling back sales tax], and property taxes.

We call for the restoration of the capital gains tax and luxury tax on a progressive, graduated scale.

We call for compensation to communities-- and compensation, re-training, and other support service for workers-- affected by plant and military base closings as stop-gap measures until we reach our goal of creating a socialist society totally separate from the global capitalist economy.

We call for a National Pension Authority to hold the assets of private pension funds, and a levy against corporate assets for any pension fund deficits.

We call for increased and expanded welfare assistance and increased and expanded unemployment compensation at 100% of a worker's previous income or the minimum wage, whichever is higher, for the full period of unemployment or re-training, whichever is longer.

We support tax benefits for renters equal to those for homeowners. "(Rent Relief Act)"

We call for the elimination of subsidies and tax breaks that benefit corporations and all other forms of corporate welfare.

We oppose the court-created precedent of “corporate personhood” that illegitimately gives corporations rights that were intended for human beings.


We call for a 100-percent capital flight tax on runaway industry.


So, Trump is likely to do the above right? :roll:

Both Trump and Democrat:

Quote:
We support a program of massive federal investment in both urban and rural areas for infrastructure reconstruction and economic development.


Trump:

Quote:
We demand the immediate withdrawal of the United States from the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) and the Dominican Republic--Central American Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA--DR), and we oppose the creation of a widened Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA) and Trans-Atlantic Trade Partnership.”

We demand cancellation of Third World debt.

(to be fair Trump is doing the re-training part of the call for compensation to communities)


Not to mention many winning Democratic Primaries - or members or at the very least sponsored by - the Democratic Socialists of America.

So, Democrats or Democrat representatives have shown support for more emboldened platform points whereas Trump shows three of them - and you wonder why socialist organizations stand on the left and is the political group that is the most against Trump... You know, the ones scaring centrists and rightests that the "too extreme" group that they always feared is winning primaries.

As said, we and Trump supporters can't agree on a lot - seeing your over-generalization as leading to whacky conflation would actually be one of them.



Last edited by Spooky_Mulder on 06 Sep 2018, 9:09 am, edited 3 times in total.

ASPartOfMe
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06 Sep 2018, 8:50 am

The might be more right wing terrorism in the last few decades but it has not always been so.
been true but this has not always been the case.
The Bombings of America That We Forgot

Quote:
It may be hard to recall now, but there was a time when most Americans were decidedly more blasé about bombing attacks. This was during the 1970s, when protest bombings in America were commonplace, especially in hard-hit cities like New York, Chicago and San Francisco. Nearly a dozen radical underground groups, dimly remembered outfits such as the Weather Underground, the New World Liberation Front and the Symbionese Liberation Army, set off hundreds of bombs during that tumultuous decade—so many, in fact, that many people all but accepted them as a part of daily life. As one woman sniffed to a New York Post reporter after an attack by a Puerto Rican independence group in 1977: “Oh, another bombing? Who is it this time?’”

The underground groups of the 1970s were a kind of grungy, bell-bottomed coda to the protests of the 1960s; their members were mostly onetime student leftists who refused to give up the utopian dreams of 1968. While little remembered today, there was a time during the early 1970s when the U.S. government—the Nixon Administration—considered these groups a genuine threat to national security. Alarmed by a series of Weatherman attacks, Nixon told J. Edgar Hoover during a June 1970 Oval Office meeting that “revolutionary terror” represented the single greatest threat to American society. Hoover promised to do what he could, which wasn’t much.

As paranoid as Nixon could be, it was hard to argue with his line of thinking: Bombing attacks were growing by the day. They had begun as crude, simple things, mostly Molotov cocktails college radicals hurled toward ROTC buildings during the late 1960s. The first actual bombing campaign, the work of a group of New York City radicals led by a militant named Sam Melville, featured attacks on a dozen buildings around Manhattan between August and November 1969, when Melville and most of his pals were arrested.

Weather’s attacks began three months later, and by 1971 protest bombings had spread across the country. In a single eighteen-month period during 1971 and 1972 the FBI counted an amazing 2,500 bombings on American soil, almost five a day.Because they were typically detonated late at night, few caused serious injury, leading to a kind of grudging public acceptance. The deadliest underground attack of the decade, in fact, killed all of four people, in the January 1975 bombing of a Wall Street restaurant. News accounts rarely carried any expression or indication of public outrage.

Consider what happened when another Puerto Rican group detonated a small bomb in a Bronx cinema while a rapt crowd watched a movie called The Liberation of L.B. Jones. When police ordered everyone to leave, an NYPD spokesman complained, the audience angry refused, demanding to see the rest of the movie. When police insisted, “They about tore the place apart.”

The epidemic of bombings eased as the decade wore on, though this wasn’t readily apparent in San Francisco, where explosions remained so prevalent that, after an especially nasty series of attacks in 1976, an FBI spokesman termed the city “the Belfast of North America.’” And the violence actually grew more deadly as the number of underground groups dwindled and grew more desperate; the deadliest year for underground violence was 1981, when eleven people were killed in bombings and bank robberies gone bad.


Bolding mine

Most of those bombings were from the left although you did have abortion clinic bombings and assasinations of doctors preforming them.

I highly doubt people would be blase about it today, or the bombers would try and avoid causulties today. The right wing terrorism was a response to them bieng out of power politically and culturally. That was the bombings the rioting by theleft was far more voilent and disrupting back then. My scenario involves no blue wave or even republicans remaining in control.


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Spooky_Mulder
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06 Sep 2018, 9:13 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Most of those bombings were from the left although you did have abortion clinic bombings and assasinations of doctors preforming them.


Do you have statistics?

Also, it's telling that you had to go back 39+ years. Not to make anyone sound old, but - that's old.



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06 Sep 2018, 9:19 am

Spooky_Mulder wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Most of those bombings were from the left although you did have abortion clinic bombings and assasinations of doctors preforming them.
Do you have statistics? Also, it's telling that you had to go back 39+ years. Not to make anyone sound old, but - that's old.
Wait until he starts quoting John Wilkes Booth...


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ASPartOfMe
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06 Sep 2018, 9:38 am

Spooky_Mulder wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Most of those bombings were from the left although you did have abortion clinic bombings and assasinations of doctors preforming them.


Do you have statistics?

Also, it's telling that you had to go back 39+ years. Not to make anyone sound old, but - that's old.


You could read the book the article was promoting. The groups mentioned were of the “left”. The book is about mainly the left because that is what was happening. Well I am old(LOL). History can if not exactly repeat itself come back in a similar way. This thread is a prediction thread there are no statistics for the future.


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Spooky_Mulder
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06 Sep 2018, 10:07 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Spooky_Mulder wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Most of those bombings were from the left although you did have abortion clinic bombings and assasinations of doctors preforming them.


Do you have statistics?

Also, it's telling that you had to go back 39+ years. Not to make anyone sound old, but - that's old.


You could read the book the article was promoting. The groups mentioned were of the “left”. The book is about mainly the left because that is what was happening. Well I am old(LOL). History can if not exactly repeat itself come back in a similar way. This thread is a prediction thread there are no statistics for the future.


Actually there are, in recent history the right-wing have statistically committed the most domestic terrorist attacks and continue to be a threat to the country's domestic security. The 90s were also rampant for the far right and the attack on Fort Worth in Texas in 1997 (thank God the FBI stopped it) would have been the largest terrorist attack in the United States, killing upwards of theorized 30,000 people (this is 10x more than 9/11).



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06 Sep 2018, 12:23 pm

With regards to the future, all I can picture right now is Trump rocketing up to the moon in his space force and building a pillow fort sprinkled with moon dust with a cardboard sign condemning immigrants with about half of the words misspelled.