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LaetiBlabla
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Arganger
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13 Sep 2018, 9:21 am

people are worth more than that


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Fnord
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13 Sep 2018, 9:53 am

A lethal cyanide dose? Are you kidding?

Symptoms of cyanide poisoning include headache, dizziness, fast heart rate, shortness of breath, and vomiting, followed by seizures, slow heart rate, low blood pressure, loss of consciousness, and cardiac arrest. This may last for several minutes, and if a person survives, there may be long-term neurological problems.

Simultaneous vomiting and seizures that go on for several minutes of pain and slow suffocation before loss of consciousness isn't very "clean and painless".

Actually, there is no "clean" method of suicide. People don't just fall asleep and keep falling; most of those who survive describe being in a state of panic as they slowly suffocate, and descriptions of the bladder and bowels letting loose soon after death still means that someone has to deal with the mess.


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13 Sep 2018, 3:20 pm

People have the right to their own lives and to make their own decisions, but this is kind of depressing. We should be petitioning more funding to places like Samaritans and other suicide hotlines, not just letting people kill themselves. That seems like we're giving up on suicidal individuals which I wholly don't agree with.



LaetiBlabla
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13 Sep 2018, 3:35 pm

Fnord wrote:
A lethal cyanide dose? Are you kidding?

Symptoms of cyanide poisoning include headache, dizziness, fast heart rate, shortness of breath, and vomiting, followed by seizures, slow heart rate, low blood pressure, loss of consciousness, and cardiac arrest. This may last for several minutes, and if a person survives, there may be long-term neurological problems.

Simultaneous vomiting and seizures that go on for several minutes of pain and slow suffocation before loss of consciousness isn't very "clean and painless".

Actually, there is no "clean" method of suicide. People don't just fall asleep and keep falling; most of those who survive describe being in a state of panic as they slowly suffocate, and descriptions of the bladder and bowels letting loose soon after death still means that someone has to deal with the mess.


I think that cyanide (injection) is what they gave to my cat to stop him suffering after a car accident and he died in just two seconds, I guess the dosing is important.

By the way , in the helium canisters (used to inflate balloons), they add some oxygen at the end of the canister in order to wake up people who would use it to gentlly "fall asleep for ever". They also protect and supervise places to jump from, which are high enough be sure you die directly.



Last edited by LaetiBlabla on 13 Sep 2018, 3:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

LaetiBlabla
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13 Sep 2018, 3:46 pm

Arganger wrote:
people are worth more than that

people are worth a minimum freedom on their own life



Fnord
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13 Sep 2018, 4:11 pm

LaetiBlabla wrote:
I think that cyanide (injection) is what they gave to my cat to stop him suffering after a car accident and he died in just two seconds, I guess the dosing is important.
In the U.S., two injections are usually used for small animals. The first injection is usually a fast-acting anesthetic, so that the owner can "say goodbye" without witnessing the actual death. The second injection is what ends the animal's life. Both injections are likely some form of barbiturate, although the second may actually contain Potassium Chloride, which actually stops the heart.
LaetiBlabla wrote:
By the way , in the helium canisters (used to inflate balloons), they add some oxygen at the end of the canister in order to wake up people who would use it to gentlly "fall asleep for ever". They also protect and supervise places to jump from, which are high enough be sure you die directly.
This is not the case. While the helium may have some oxygen, there is no way to have the two gases in the same container so that one is delivered only after the other is depleted.


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13 Sep 2018, 5:54 pm

Destruction of the physical-body does not remove the «negative-emotions» from the spirit-soul which WILL still be felt even after physical-death; don't tell me that you've never experienced what humans term as «dreams» and could literally feel the so-called «physical/emotional» sensations, despite the fact that nothing was actually happening to your physical-body back here in the so-called real-world of this earth-life.

Better to address the psychological-problems of the ones who endure mental-suffering than to promote ways to harm the body which could result in permanent life-long hospitalisation. The only time it is permissible to aid in another's passage into «passing on» is when they've already expired their life-span and are already of such declining health and cannot carry out even ordinary basic every day life-functions and are with no possibility of reversal into a healthy physical-body (such as turning into a vegetable-state). I also recommend reading The Messiah's writings on euthanasia.


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Arganger
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13 Sep 2018, 9:32 pm

LaetiBlabla wrote:
Arganger wrote:
people are worth more than that

people are worth a minimum freedom on their own life


People are worth being fought for, not just handed over to their deaths. Effort would be so much better placed in expanding mental health care, and trying to create a world people want to live in. Death cannot be reversed. Suicide isn't freedom.


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Suspected; PTSD (Treated, as my counselor did notice), possible PCOS, PMDD, Learning disabilities (Sure of it, unknown what they are), possibly something wrong with immune system (Sick about as much as I'm not) Possible EDS- hyper mobility type (Will be getting tested, suggested by doctor) dysautonomia


LaetiBlabla
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14 Sep 2018, 12:54 am

^^^think that if I you give people the right to suicide, then there are also interesting indirect consequences:

- you would really have to create a world where people want to live and you would really care for others. Indeed too many suicides would cause instability and your attitude would have an impact on other's choice to suicide or not. The right to suicide could then indirectly change the world from the creation of fake happiness and illusions to the care for what people really need. Values would switch from the perfume and the superb car to real care for basic needs (food, roof, health, love, listening, feeling of importance, care, people interaction, freedom of thought and expression, other real human values)

- when the mental help or health care is inefficient, it would simply prove out to be inefficient and there is nothing bad at it. The inefficiency may be due to the patient, due to the Psy, due to not enough advanced knowledge, due to the world or life conditions,... just as for incurable illnesses.

Also, in any case death always happens at the end of life, you would not "choose to die", you would choose the time.



Arganger
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14 Sep 2018, 9:24 am

LaetiBlabla wrote:
^^^think that if I you give people the right to suicide, then there are also interesting indirect consequences:

- you would really have to create a world where people want to live and you would really care for others. Indeed too many suicides would cause instability and your attitude would have an impact on other's choice to suicide or not. The right to suicide could then indirectly change the world from the creation of fake happiness and illusions to the care for what people really need. Values would switch from the perfume and the superb car to real care for basic needs (food, roof, health, love, listening, feeling of importance, care, people interaction, freedom of thought and expression, other real human values)

- when the mental help or health care is inefficient, it would simply prove out to be inefficient and there is nothing bad at it. The inefficiency may be due to the patient, due to the Psy, due to not enough advanced knowledge, due to the world or life conditions,... just as for incurable illnesses.

Also, in any case death always happens at the end of life, you would not "choose to die", you would choose the time.


"Time" is precious, people don't live a long time anyway, so everyone needs every moment they can get. They need the opportunity to see their worth.

The mental health system would get even weaker than it is. Because if suicide is a-okay, than many people won't bother with treatment, and many others will stop seeing the value in supporting mental health care of any kind.

Death won't take away the pain, it will just end ya on a bad note. Their is nothing freeing about death- a finality that can never be taken back, a loss of hope of any kind, and a killer of future opportunities.


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Suspected; PTSD (Treated, as my counselor did notice), possible PCOS, PMDD, Learning disabilities (Sure of it, unknown what they are), possibly something wrong with immune system (Sick about as much as I'm not) Possible EDS- hyper mobility type (Will be getting tested, suggested by doctor) dysautonomia


LaetiBlabla
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14 Sep 2018, 10:44 am

Each person should be allowed to decide how they see their own life and this view should be respected.

I respect the way you see your own life.



TessSpoon
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16 Sep 2018, 2:28 am

Well, the human population does need some trimming...

Ban-Dodger wrote:

Better to address the psychological-problems of the ones who endure mental-suffering than to promote ways to harm the body which could result in permanent life-long hospitalisation.


Yes, it is ideal to make people truly stop wanting to commit suicide. The keyword here is truly.

LaetiBlabla wrote:
The right to suicide could then indirectly change the world from the creation of fake happiness and illusions to the care for what people really need.


How so?

LaetiBlabla wrote:
- When the mental help or health care is inefficient, it would simply prove out to be inefficient and there is nothing bad at it.


What do you mean? This wording seemed kind of odd.

Arganger wrote:
Death won't take away the pain, it will just end ya on a bad note. Their is nothing freeing about death- a finality that can never be taken back, a loss of hope of any kind, and a killer of future opportunities.


How can you be so sure it won't end the pain? I mean, if death means loss of all senses, then since pain is a sense, then that'd go away as well. Even if it isn't the case, it's not like we have the means to prove it.

Also, I wonder how giving people the right to suicide would affect things like the economy, especially in countries with high suicide rates, like Japan. Maybe if enough people suicide, there will be less people being dismissive of those who show they want to commit suicide. Maybe people would learn some compassion, and unlearn some dismissiveness. Of course, it'd be a messed-up way to spread compassion, but then again, such has happened. Didn't the Holocaust cause a lot of people to be more compassionate to the Jews?

Just my speculation, mind you.



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20 Sep 2018, 7:14 pm

That's something that I won't be defending. I'd rather defend the right to all human life.


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20 Sep 2018, 7:44 pm

It would be misused in time; the road to Hell can be paved with good intentions and unintended consequences. I understand the people who support euthanasia and where they are coming from, though I think they are blinded to where it would lead. The dangers are too great for people whom society deems "lesser than".

Heaven knows there have been times in my long life when overwhelming situations nearly drove me to the edge of total despair, however it was a tunnel with eventual new light at the end.

Death isn't the answer. We are worth more than that, even if the world seems a very hostile place at times.

There is a desperate need for suicide support services expressly tailored to AS people, providing understanding support in ways that acknowledge the AS difficulty with services tailored to neurotypicals and for neurotypicals. The lack of appropriate support services for AS people is a disgrace, and the naivete of those who think one size fits all is dangerous for AS people in the clutches of suicidal despair. We are worth better than that.



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21 Sep 2018, 2:07 am

I would want the suicide option if I am terminal with no known way of avoiding an exceedingly painful and or miserable death. A lot of times it is other humans intervening and preventing what mother nature wants to do.

I do think most Autistic suicide ideation is preventable and treatable. Internalized ableism is a very large factor in my opinion.

As I have mentioned before the physician-assisted suicide laws for autistics in places like Holland is consumer eugenics.


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