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thoughtbeast
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20 Sep 2018, 12:59 am

How to Confront a Racist

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You just heard a racist comment from a friend, a relative, a co-worker, a stranger: What do you you do? Do you speak up? Are you stunned into silence?



P_James_Moriarty
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20 Sep 2018, 3:25 am

Ya right. I'll remember to confront the next person of another race, which is almost everyone, the next time I hear them say "Indian summer" or "Indian giver". I'm sure that'll make great inroads with just about everyone. Pfft.


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LoveNotHate
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20 Sep 2018, 4:16 am

In my life experiences, 99% of the time, soft racist statements seem to be associated with *safety*.

"I don't go there late at night, because there's too many people of color X".
"Lock your car doors, because people of color X are nearby"
"I don't want to stop in this city, because of too many people of color X".
"The city has gone to hell, because of too many people of color X".

*Fear* seems to be a big factor.

So to confront racism, then you'll have to confront fear.


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P_James_Moriarty
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20 Sep 2018, 4:44 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
In my life experiences, 99% of the time, soft racist statements seem to be associated with *safety*.

"I don't go there late at night, because there's too many people of color X".
"Lock your car doors, because people of color X are nearby"
"I don't want to stop in this city, because of too many people of color X".
"The city has gone to hell, because of too many people of color X".

*Fear* seems to be a big factor.

So to confront racism, then you'll have to confront fear.


Um, no. Whether an area (bar, neiborhood, crowd, nation) is safe has little to do with race and more to do with the attitude of the people in that area regardless of race. To walk into an openly hostle crowd is to invite trouble. You might be able to get away with it, but your mastery of your fear isn't going change the attitude of those who will wish you harm, and willing to act on it. I want everyone to get along, but to walk into a dangerous situation is going to be just as dangerous whether you've mastered you fear of it or not. A person could master their fear of a lynch mob whatever the racial composition, but mastery of fear won't change the level of danger in doing it. (to use an extreme example)


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techstepgenr8tion
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20 Sep 2018, 9:39 am

I typically apply disconfirmation. Especially if someone starts making racial jokes just give a thousand-yard stare in some other direction (the way NT's often do when they think "Ah, this person's weird...") and don't laugh at the joke. Similarly if they're talking about minorities destroying the country you can be pretty sure they've been drinking their own koolaid for too long and aside from not really reacting to their comments you're better off obliquely pointing to an article or some credible piece of information that would jam a wrench in the over-simplicity of their beliefs.


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20 Sep 2018, 10:32 am

P_James_Moriarty wrote:
Ya right. I'll remember to confront the next person of another race, which is almost everyone, the next time I hear them say "Indian summer" or "Indian giver". I'm sure that'll make great inroads with just about everyone. Pfft.

Ya right, because that's all racism is, a casual and unintentional misuse of terms by otherwise racially aware people.



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20 Sep 2018, 1:11 pm

There's not much point saying anything, unless there is an active threat present (physical abuse or emotional harm). If it's an off the cuff remark that can be glossed over, nothing you say or do will change that individual's mind as to how they feel.

Only society can intervene.



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20 Sep 2018, 8:35 pm

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21 Sep 2018, 9:10 am

I’ve been rewatching Star Trek TNG. And I also rewatched Voyager recently. Data and Seven of Nine really have the best reactions to uncomfortable statements or jokes. Seven might raise her eyebrow, or ask the person to explain. Data might say something like, “Curious” or “I do not understand.”

It really deflates people.



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22 Sep 2018, 3:37 am

I have a friend who I've known before I was even old enough to go to school, and who as an adult had moved away to Arizona. The times I've talked to him, he ranted and raved about blacks, race mixing, trans people, and the New World Order. I've since stopped trying to make sense to him as he appears to be insane.


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LoveNotHate
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22 Sep 2018, 7:02 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
I have a friend who I've known before I was even old enough to go to school, and who as an adult had moved away to Arizona. The times I've talked to him, he ranted and raved about blacks, race mixing, trans people, and the New World Order. I've since stopped trying to make sense to him as he appears to be insane.

Sounds like he's being brainwashed.


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techstepgenr8tion
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22 Sep 2018, 9:16 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I have a friend who I've known before I was even old enough to go to school, and who as an adult had moved away to Arizona. The times I've talked to him, he ranted and raved about blacks, race mixing, trans people, and the New World Order. I've since stopped trying to make sense to him as he appears to be insane.

Sounds like he's being brainwashed.

Or just needy.

I think what happens with a lot of these people is they're living in a world that they feel is spinning out of their control. The complexity scares the crap out of them, especially in the sense that they can't keep track of it and a lot of our internal gearing tells us that when you can't read the angles anymore you're two steps away from being something or someone's prey. That's where conspiracy, group vs. group thinking, etc. comes into play - it reduces that complexity, attempts to point at the problem that's being felt, and does so in such a way where it brings things down to a cognitive level that the person can handle. It doesn't have to be a good or accurate heuristic, it just has to be a heuristic they can cogitate and easily carves the world up into good people vs bad people.

The other problem - I think our leadership should always be on the lookout for these things and sizing up growth in their activity. While there'll always be conspiracy nuts and racists, sexists, and bigots of all variety they need to pay attention to when the numbers of such people are growing or when otherwise normal people are starting to drift that way. That's a sign that there's a problem that needs to be taken care of, ie. something that's being reacted to and if they can resolve what's being reacted to then the numbers of people entertaining such beliefs should drift back down to normal background-noise levels. It's critical for the stability of culture that we do that. That's part of where I think our elite have really dropped the ball.


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Kraichgauer
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22 Sep 2018, 1:45 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I have a friend who I've known before I was even old enough to go to school, and who as an adult had moved away to Arizona. The times I've talked to him, he ranted and raved about blacks, race mixing, trans people, and the New World Order. I've since stopped trying to make sense to him as he appears to be insane.

Sounds like he's being brainwashed.

Or just needy.

I think what happens with a lot of these people is they're living in a world that they feel is spinning out of their control. The complexity scares the crap out of them, especially in the sense that they can't keep track of it and a lot of our internal gearing tells us that when you can't read the angles anymore you're two steps away from being something or someone's prey. That's where conspiracy, group vs. group thinking, etc. comes into play - it reduces that complexity, attempts to point at the problem that's being felt, and does so in such a way where it brings things down to a cognitive level that the person can handle. It doesn't have to be a good or accurate heuristic, it just has to be a heuristic they can cogitate and easily carves the world up into good people vs bad people.

The other problem - I think our leadership should always be on the lookout for these things and sizing up growth in their activity. While there'll always be conspiracy nuts and racists, sexists, and bigots of all variety they need to pay attention to when the numbers of such people are growing or when otherwise normal people are starting to drift that way. That's a sign that there's a problem that needs to be taken care of, ie. something that's being reacted to and if they can resolve what's being reacted to then the numbers of people entertaining such beliefs should drift back down to normal background-noise levels. It's critical for the stability of culture that we do that. That's part of where I think our elite have really dropped the ball.


I imagine that's part of what's happened to my friend.


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22 Sep 2018, 1:47 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I have a friend who I've known before I was even old enough to go to school, and who as an adult had moved away to Arizona. The times I've talked to him, he ranted and raved about blacks, race mixing, trans people, and the New World Order. I've since stopped trying to make sense to him as he appears to be insane.

Sounds like he's being brainwashed.


Very possible. As he's lived so many years away in Arizona, I have no idea what had happened to him there.


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23 Sep 2018, 9:37 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I have a friend who I've known before I was even old enough to go to school, and who as an adult had moved away to Arizona. The times I've talked to him, he ranted and raved about blacks, race mixing, trans people, and the New World Order. I've since stopped trying to make sense to him as he appears to be insane.

He sounds like my dad. My dad also believes that Captain Janeway from Star Trek Voyager is meant to represent former Australia Prime Minister Julia Gillard (even though Star Trek Voyager started nearly 20 years before Julia Gillard was elected Prime Minister).


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23 Sep 2018, 9:40 pm

If you confront a racist you're giving them more attention then they deserve. Some of them get off on having these "debates" in which they try to justify their racism. Instead of rewarding the racist, just stop talking to the racist.


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