Are there really more "mass shootings" in the U.S.?

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AspieUtah
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25 Sep 2018, 10:13 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
It is a fact that much was hidden in the old days.

One example: racial violence. Racial violence was seen as being the "norm" in the 1970s. If a black person was set upon by a gang of white people, it would have evoked pity----but it wouldn't have made the news.

Molestation in places like summer camps was seen as being the "norm" as well.

And, much is still hidden. Take Scotland again, for example, where firearms are largely missing. How many unnatural early deaths are the result of post-pub beatings or stabbings? Murder somebody in a back alley, skip home and do it again a week or month later. In other words, it is a frequent occurrence. If we complain about firearms, let us also, at least, point out other modes of death.


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kraftiekortie
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25 Sep 2018, 11:44 am

Murder, no matter what methodology is used, is definitely something to complain about.....



Tollorin
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25 Sep 2018, 11:47 am

Fnord wrote:
Most of us seem to know that there is a lot of "America-Bashing" going on, and that the exaggerated media attention given to mass shootings in the foreign press only fuels America's reputation as the "Wild West" full of trigger-happy cowboys, machine-gun toting gangsters, and gun nuts with arsenals that would make most third-world nations jealous.

According to the National Institutes of Health, the Top Ten Leading Causes of Death in 2016 were:

• Heart disease: 635,260
• Cancer: 598,038
• Accidents (unintentional injuries): 161,374
• Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 154,596
• Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 142,142
• Alzheimer’s disease: 116,103
• Diabetes: 80,058
• Influenza and pneumonia: 51,537
• Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,046
• Intentional self-harm (suicide): 44,965

(Source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leadin ... -death.htm)

"Mass Shooting" did not even make it to the "Top Ten", so why all of the emphasis on gun-related violence?

The last one on that list is related to guns; it's harder to "succeed" a suicide without guns.



AspieUtah
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25 Sep 2018, 12:01 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Murder, no matter what methodology is used, is definitely something to complain about.....

But, doing that isn't as "sexy" as firearms, and doesn't raise millions of dollars to "ban them." Sad commentary about the reality of the matter.


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aghogday
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25 Sep 2018, 12:56 pm

Hmm, If Trump was a Researcher His Credential's Might Mirror Lott's too.

"Mary Rosh persona
In response to the dispute surrounding the missing survey, Lott created and used "Mary Rosh" as a sock puppet to defend his own works on Usenet and elsewhere. After investigative work by blogger Julian Sanchez, Lott admitted to use of the Mary Rosh persona.[64] Sanchez also pointed out that Lott, posing as Rosh, not only praised his own academic writing, but also called himself "the best professor I ever had".

"Many commentators and academics accused Lott of violating academic integrity, noting that he praised himself while posing as one of his former students[73][74] and that "Rosh" was used to post a favorable review of More Guns, Less Crime on Amazon.com. Lott has claimed that the "Rosh" review was written by his son and wife.[74]"

"I probably shouldn't have done it—I know I shouldn't have done it—but it's hard to think of any big advantage I got except to be able to comment fictitiously," Lott told the Washington Post in 2003.[74]"

It's a 'Fact' that Mass Shootings have increased 'Hugely' in the Last Few Decades in the United States where Misanthropic
Crimes Like this are considerable Cause for Concern of a Symptom of an Overall Ailing Society with a Multitude of
Complex Factors Behind this Entire New Experiment of HumanKind 'without legs', for those who understand
Metaphors too that are quite literally True too.

And it's True the Truth has Become a Valuable Commodity for those who can prove they actually do it. This
Dude doesn't fit the Truth Pill as Fact.

More People Are Dying in this one Particular Area of Human Violence and Violence
has been Reduced in many other Areas of Specific Violent Crimes. Folks wanna know why and why not.

Researchers who understand what it means to Tell the Truth Are Valuable Assets;
Same as Politicians who have a Clue of Truth who make Laws too.

Anyway, I check the Credentials of the Scientist and or the 'Priest'/'Politician'
And Turn the Page when it stinks like BS.

This is what the 'Fact' Checker 'Snopes' says:

"Our conclusion is that this is accurate based on the CPRC’s definition of a mass shooting, but also extremely misleading. It uses inappropriate statistical methods to obscure the reality that mass shootings are very rare in most countries, so that when they do happen they have an outsized statistical effect. Of the countries chosen by Lott for his analysis, the United States is by some distance the most consistent site of mass shootings."

Have a Nice Day, Just Came by to Exercise my 'Left Brain'; Research Exists; other Folks Have already done 'the work'.
That's how 'Left Brain Think Works; Collects the Data and Rarely Explores New Stuff like 'Right Brain' Creates Anew.

'Real Men' Don't have to Carry Guns; particularly if everyone else in the Neighborhood Spends all their Money on
Them where the Criminals Are Afraid to Step Foot in the Neighborhood; Yes, Trump Country is Nice like this; I Don't
Have to Spend a Dime and Fearless is the Best Defense of all to keep Safe as Human Nature doesn't usually F with Fearless And not too many Folks Pick A Fight with 'the Crazy Naked Dude' either; hehe, as the only Guns 'He' has are Biceps that Really Work; and on top of that Criminals confuse me for 'Law Enforcement' anyway; Walk Softly with a Big Stick that Works too as That works For Presidents who are not endowed with Tiny Mushroom Head Hands as "Lord of the Flies', too; hAha. (Note: that was Humor; Dry Dry Asperger's Humor; I Do Wet Humor too but not here)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lott

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/unite ... shootings/


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25 Sep 2018, 5:41 pm

Mythos wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Most of us seem to know that there is a lot of "America-Bashing" going on, and that the exaggerated media attention given to mass shootings in the foreign press only fuels America's reputation as the "Wild West" full of trigger-happy cowboys, machine-gun toting gangsters, and gun nuts with arsenals that would make most third-world nations jealous.

According to the National Institutes of Health, the Top Ten Leading Causes of Death in 2016 were:

• Heart disease: 635,260
• Cancer: 598,038
• Accidents (unintentional injuries): 161,374
• Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 154,596
• Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 142,142
• Alzheimer’s disease: 116,103
• Diabetes: 80,058
• Influenza and pneumonia: 51,537
• Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,046
• Intentional self-harm (suicide): 44,965

(Source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leadin ... -death.htm)

"Mass Shooting" did not even make it to the "Top Ten", so why all of the emphasis on gun-related violence?
There are preventative measures for disease but it's almost like guns are glorified.

Mass shooting is not going to appear on the top ten leading causes because it's not frequent in that sense, but just because it doesn't make the list doesn't mean it isn't a problem. Say, 100 people die a year via mass shooting (just a random figure), does that mean we ignore it then? That's still 100 lives.


You don’t punish 100 million people for the deaths of 100.

We don’t do stuff that’s save lives with cars cause it’s hurt the majority does that mean who don’t care about the thousands who die from car related deaths?



sly279
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25 Sep 2018, 5:46 pm

Tollorin wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Most of us seem to know that there is a lot of "America-Bashing" going on, and that the exaggerated media attention given to mass shootings in the foreign press only fuels America's reputation as the "Wild West" full of trigger-happy cowboys, machine-gun toting gangsters, and gun nuts with arsenals that would make most third-world nations jealous.

According to the National Institutes of Health, the Top Ten Leading Causes of Death in 2016 were:

• Heart disease: 635,260
• Cancer: 598,038
• Accidents (unintentional injuries): 161,374
• Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 154,596
• Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 142,142
• Alzheimer’s disease: 116,103
• Diabetes: 80,058
• Influenza and pneumonia: 51,537
• Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,046
• Intentional self-harm (suicide): 44,965

(Source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leadin ... -death.htm)

"Mass Shooting" did not even make it to the "Top Ten", so why all of the emphasis on gun-related violence?

The last one on that list is related to guns; it's harder to "succeed" a suicide without guns.


As many people kill Themselves without guns as with, so banging guns won’t change it they just use one of the other methods. You can’t stop guns with banning stuff it can only be stopped by actually reaching out and helping the person.
Lot of the left thinks if they take the gun away their job is sin but the person just uses a knife, jumps from a building, takes pills dead is dead but the left feels good cause they did something.



Mythos
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26 Sep 2018, 2:00 am

sly279 wrote:
Mythos wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Most of us seem to know that there is a lot of "America-Bashing" going on, and that the exaggerated media attention given to mass shootings in the foreign press only fuels America's reputation as the "Wild West" full of trigger-happy cowboys, machine-gun toting gangsters, and gun nuts with arsenals that would make most third-world nations jealous.

According to the National Institutes of Health, the Top Ten Leading Causes of Death in 2016 were:

• Heart disease: 635,260
• Cancer: 598,038
• Accidents (unintentional injuries): 161,374
• Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 154,596
• Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 142,142
• Alzheimer’s disease: 116,103
• Diabetes: 80,058
• Influenza and pneumonia: 51,537
• Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,046
• Intentional self-harm (suicide): 44,965

(Source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leadin ... -death.htm)

"Mass Shooting" did not even make it to the "Top Ten", so why all of the emphasis on gun-related violence?
There are preventative measures for disease but it's almost like guns are glorified.

Mass shooting is not going to appear on the top ten leading causes because it's not frequent in that sense, but just because it doesn't make the list doesn't mean it isn't a problem. Say, 100 people die a year via mass shooting (just a random figure), does that mean we ignore it then? That's still 100 lives.


You don’t punish 100 million people for the deaths of 100.

We don’t do stuff that’s save lives with cars cause it’s hurt the majority does that mean who don’t care about the thousands who die from car related deaths?
Why not? How do you place a value on lives? Also, it's not really "punishing" 100,000,000 or so people to say that people should have more thorough checks before being handed tools of death.



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26 Sep 2018, 2:07 am

Mythos wrote:
it's almost like guns are glorified.


My theory, they're over-compensating for something that looks like a gun.



sly279
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26 Sep 2018, 2:09 am

Let’s see taking people’s stuff treating them like criminals, tracking them, etc seems like punishment to me, you won’t be effected so of course it seems fine to you
But I bet your against limiting cars to 35 MPh max speed or banning all alcohol or banning kinds of food or types of books and movies.

I place a high value on freedom that thousands have died to protect and that you’d throw away so carelessly.
95% or more of the mass shooters passed back groun checks so expanding them to private sales won’t do anything. You can not check for something someone might do 1,2 or 40 years from now. You can not prevent people breaking or going crazy nor can you prevent evil people from doing evil things.
Leave me and the other 100 million pulse gun owners alone.



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26 Sep 2018, 8:42 am

Mythos wrote:
...people should have more thorough checks before being handed tools of death.

I have enjoyed a Utah Concealed Firearm permit for the last 15 years. It is my canary in the coalmine because I and others determined by the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) program managed by the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation at the time of purchasing a firearm, and, for those like me with the permit, every 24 hours, Sundays and holidays included. If I am pulled over by a traffic officer anywhere in the United States for so much as a burned-out tail light, he or she will already know that I own firearms before even approaching me. If I get so much as a DUI charge, it shows up instantly nationwide, and I spend months or years resolving it (without possession or access to my firearms, and probably the permit itself). For someone who takes such a permit as seriously as a heart attack, I am among the least likely citizens to jeopardize that privilege. In fact, when I was accepted for my chosen housing option, the property director said I needed to complete a background check. When I showed her my permit and described its intimidating conditions, she agreed that it was vastly superior to a check that amounted to just another credit review.

So, I don't know how making such a strident program even more "triple-dog dare" protected when most Americans wouldn't put up with the conditions themselves. :?


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26 Sep 2018, 10:58 am

I live in an open carry state, and I’ve also had a conceal carry permit for many, many years. This year I made a personal commitment to always carry, unless I’m going to, say, the post office or something.

It is nice to know I could defend myself if I was ever in some kind of terrible situation like a mass shooting. Like AspieUtah said, it is a responsibility, which permit owners take very seriously. I have been target shooting for 30 years. It’s important know your aim is decent. I’ve never killed anything, save for a squirrel I ran over accidentally about 15 years ago. But I would not hesitate if I had to.

I truly feel sorry for people in countries who do not have the right to bare arms.



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26 Sep 2018, 11:07 am

SocOfAutism wrote:
I live in an open carry state, and I’ve also had a conceal carry permit for many, many years. This year I made a personal commitment to always carry, unless I’m going to, say, the post office or something.

It is nice to know I could defend myself if I was ever in some kind of terrible situation like a mass shooting. Like AspieUtah said, it is a responsibility, which permit owners take very seriously. I have been target shooting for 30 years. It’s important know your aim is decent. I’ve never killed anything, save for a squirrel I ran over accidentally about 15 years ago. But I would not hesitate if I had to.

I truly feel sorry for people in countries who do not have the right to bare arms.


Well, everyone everywhere, except females in fundamentalist controlled Islamic countries, have the right to bare arms, but I know what you meant.... :D


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26 Sep 2018, 11:31 am

SocOfAutism wrote:
I live in an open carry state, and I’ve also had a conceal carry permit for many, many years. This year I made a personal commitment to always carry, unless I’m going to, say, the post office or something.

It is nice to know I could defend myself if I was ever in some kind of terrible situation like a mass shooting. Like AspieUtah said, it is a responsibility, which permit owners take very seriously. I have been target shooting for 30 years. It’s important know your aim is decent. I’ve never killed anything, save for a squirrel I ran over accidentally about 15 years ago. But I would not hesitate if I had to.

I truly feel sorry for people in countries who do not have the right to bare arms.

I respect those who hunt. In college, I had a job for a couple years doing telephone-survey polling. One survey was about hunters and hunting in Utah. I learned more about hunters and their respect for nature than I ever thought possible. Still, I amn't a hunter, if only because hunting usually involves more than one individual to lug a deer or elk two or three miles out of the mountain range. Besides, in lean years, deer are driven into urban areas where they starve, jump into oncoming traffic causing human injuries, or end up at the side of an expressway themselves; hardly the best way to manage the herds.


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Last edited by AspieUtah on 26 Sep 2018, 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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26 Sep 2018, 11:34 am

sly279 wrote:
I place a high value on freedom that thousands have died to protect and that you’d throw away so carelessly.


Wars weren't fought over gun rights.

If the right truly believes wars are fought for freedom they have a weird way of showing it - cheering on: the need for a "Religious Task Force" to make life harder for gay and trans soldiers, detaining soldiers and allies at airports due to Trump's xenophobia, female soldiers losing reproductive rights, and attacking black soldiers on countless occasions. I know for sure they didn't fight to return home to that. Not to mention the right sure love Cadet Bone Spurs who enjoys attacking Prisoners of War. :wink:

There are thousands of soldiers against easy gun access, they didn't fight overseas to have to fight the war at home.

A funny conflation though, I will give it that point.



Last edited by Spooky_Mulder on 26 Sep 2018, 11:41 am, edited 4 times in total.