What US Territory Could Become The 51st State?

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What US Territory Could Become The 51st State?
Puerto Rico 78%  78%  [ 7 ]
Guam 11%  11%  [ 1 ]
US Virgin Islands 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
American Samoa 11%  11%  [ 1 ]
Northern Mariana Islands 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 9

TW1ZTY
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07 Oct 2018, 2:19 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
I wonder what would happen if all 50 states disbanded? I guess it would be like what happened to the Soviet Union. Some states would still manage to do OK on their own and some would be completely ruined.


The breakup of the Soviet Union was analogous to the breakup of the British, and French, colonial empires after the second world war. Not really analogous to US states seceding from the Union.

The Russian Republic (the ruling part that lies west of the Ural Mountians in Europe: aka "Russia Proper") can be likened to England. The part of the Russian Republic that lies east of the Urals in Asia( aka "Siberia") can be likened to Australia (a storehouse for raw materials and a convenient dumping ground for convicts).

The Ukraine and Belarus can be likened to Ireland, and Scotland.

The Baltic states don't have a clear analog in the old British Empire.

The former Soviet Republics of the Caucasus and Central Asia (Azerbijan, Armenia, Georgia, Kazahkistan, Uzbekistan, etc) can be likened to Britain's African and Asian former colonies (Kenya, India, etc).

So decolonization of the USSR was an expected thing. Not sci fi like each American state breaking away from Washington.

But if that sci fi scenario were to happen then, yes for most US states it would be a disaster.

California would do fine, and would probably become world power unto itself.

But landlocked states like Nebraska would have no access to the sea except through hundreds of miles of what would then be foreign countries. Iowans wouldn't be able to get their soybeans to their market in China without river barges and trains going through a half of a dozen states-now foreign countries just to get to the sea port. And the same in reverse with imported goods from China. And each state would have to have its own defense department. And would have to guard its borders from its neighbors (the neighboring states now foreign countries). It would take a lot of adjustment to say the least.


Yeah it would take a lot of adjusting to get used to, but I like to think that the states-turned-countries wouldn't be attacking each other in wars all the time. I mean Americans have traveled, settled, and intermarried between the states for so many years they would probably all still think of each other as allies even after breaking up and maybe they would still learn to compromise despite no longer being united.

It's not like any of these states hold any real grudges against each other. Not even the Northern and Southern states.


I wouldn't discount the self perpetuating hatred many white southerners feel for the rest of the country.


You do realize that the grudge between the North and the South is often treated like a joke right? Nobody takes rednecks seriously about anything.


I'll give you an example. Southerners might make fun of the North and say things like "D*** Yankee" and vice versa but you would never have somebody from Georgia attack somebody from New York over a war that happened 200 years ago.

There may be a lot of teasing and a possible dislike of each other but never any actual violence. And all these white Southerners who love the South also love their whole country too and are very patriotic.



Kraichgauer
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07 Oct 2018, 2:55 pm

sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Anyone else remember how Newt Gingrich had talked about establishing a moon colony that might become the 51st state? He had been the Republican front runner against Obama till he had spouted that gem of lunacy.

I don't know if this true or not but didn't Trump also say something about the U.S. having a military force stationed in space? :lol:


Most certainly that's true. It's his Space Force scheme. The main difference between Trump's lunacy and Gingrich's is that Trump's fan club are all for it.

Should the airforce be merged back into the army?


Isn't it at the National Guard level?

Nope that’s the air national guard, the marines also have similar thing called reservists, so does the navy. Each branch has a national guard type thing.


My mistake. Still, I'm not sold on a space force.


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07 Oct 2018, 2:59 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
I wonder what would happen if all 50 states disbanded? I guess it would be like what happened to the Soviet Union. Some states would still manage to do OK on their own and some would be completely ruined.


The breakup of the Soviet Union was analogous to the breakup of the British, and French, colonial empires after the second world war. Not really analogous to US states seceding from the Union.

The Russian Republic (the ruling part that lies west of the Ural Mountians in Europe: aka "Russia Proper") can be likened to England. The part of the Russian Republic that lies east of the Urals in Asia( aka "Siberia") can be likened to Australia (a storehouse for raw materials and a convenient dumping ground for convicts).

The Ukraine and Belarus can be likened to Ireland, and Scotland.

The Baltic states don't have a clear analog in the old British Empire.

The former Soviet Republics of the Caucasus and Central Asia (Azerbijan, Armenia, Georgia, Kazahkistan, Uzbekistan, etc) can be likened to Britain's African and Asian former colonies (Kenya, India, etc).

So decolonization of the USSR was an expected thing. Not sci fi like each American state breaking away from Washington.

But if that sci fi scenario were to happen then, yes for most US states it would be a disaster.

California would do fine, and would probably become world power unto itself.

But landlocked states like Nebraska would have no access to the sea except through hundreds of miles of what would then be foreign countries. Iowans wouldn't be able to get their soybeans to their market in China without river barges and trains going through a half of a dozen states-now foreign countries just to get to the sea port. And the same in reverse with imported goods from China. And each state would have to have its own defense department. And would have to guard its borders from its neighbors (the neighboring states now foreign countries). It would take a lot of adjustment to say the least.


If something as stupid and senseless as the breakup of the USA were ever to happen, I would imagine it would be common for the various independent American states to form at the very least trade alliances to further economic prosperity, while grumbling about who ever came up with the idiotic idea of dis-unifying the country.


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TW1ZTY
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07 Oct 2018, 3:27 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
I wonder what would happen if all 50 states disbanded? I guess it would be like what happened to the Soviet Union. Some states would still manage to do OK on their own and some would be completely ruined.


The breakup of the Soviet Union was analogous to the breakup of the British, and French, colonial empires after the second world war. Not really analogous to US states seceding from the Union.

The Russian Republic (the ruling part that lies west of the Ural Mountians in Europe: aka "Russia Proper") can be likened to England. The part of the Russian Republic that lies east of the Urals in Asia( aka "Siberia") can be likened to Australia (a storehouse for raw materials and a convenient dumping ground for convicts).

The Ukraine and Belarus can be likened to Ireland, and Scotland.

The Baltic states don't have a clear analog in the old British Empire.

The former Soviet Republics of the Caucasus and Central Asia (Azerbijan, Armenia, Georgia, Kazahkistan, Uzbekistan, etc) can be likened to Britain's African and Asian former colonies (Kenya, India, etc).

So decolonization of the USSR was an expected thing. Not sci fi like each American state breaking away from Washington.

But if that sci fi scenario were to happen then, yes for most US states it would be a disaster.

California would do fine, and would probably become world power unto itself.

But landlocked states like Nebraska would have no access to the sea except through hundreds of miles of what would then be foreign countries. Iowans wouldn't be able to get their soybeans to their market in China without river barges and trains going through a half of a dozen states-now foreign countries just to get to the sea port. And the same in reverse with imported goods from China. And each state would have to have its own defense department. And would have to guard its borders from its neighbors (the neighboring states now foreign countries). It would take a lot of adjustment to say the least.


If something as stupid and senseless as the breakup of the USA were ever to happen, I would imagine it would be common for the various independent American states to form at the very least trade alliances to further economic prosperity, while grumbling about who ever came up with the idiotic idea of dis-unifying the country.


Frankly I think it's destined to happen. Probably (and hopefully) not for a very long time but I firmly believe that all empires are doomed to collapse.



Kraichgauer
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07 Oct 2018, 3:41 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
I wonder what would happen if all 50 states disbanded? I guess it would be like what happened to the Soviet Union. Some states would still manage to do OK on their own and some would be completely ruined.


The breakup of the Soviet Union was analogous to the breakup of the British, and French, colonial empires after the second world war. Not really analogous to US states seceding from the Union.

The Russian Republic (the ruling part that lies west of the Ural Mountians in Europe: aka "Russia Proper") can be likened to England. The part of the Russian Republic that lies east of the Urals in Asia( aka "Siberia") can be likened to Australia (a storehouse for raw materials and a convenient dumping ground for convicts).

The Ukraine and Belarus can be likened to Ireland, and Scotland.

The Baltic states don't have a clear analog in the old British Empire.

The former Soviet Republics of the Caucasus and Central Asia (Azerbijan, Armenia, Georgia, Kazahkistan, Uzbekistan, etc) can be likened to Britain's African and Asian former colonies (Kenya, India, etc).

So decolonization of the USSR was an expected thing. Not sci fi like each American state breaking away from Washington.

But if that sci fi scenario were to happen then, yes for most US states it would be a disaster.

California would do fine, and would probably become world power unto itself.

But landlocked states like Nebraska would have no access to the sea except through hundreds of miles of what would then be foreign countries. Iowans wouldn't be able to get their soybeans to their market in China without river barges and trains going through a half of a dozen states-now foreign countries just to get to the sea port. And the same in reverse with imported goods from China. And each state would have to have its own defense department. And would have to guard its borders from its neighbors (the neighboring states now foreign countries). It would take a lot of adjustment to say the least.


If something as stupid and senseless as the breakup of the USA were ever to happen, I would imagine it would be common for the various independent American states to form at the very least trade alliances to further economic prosperity, while grumbling about who ever came up with the idiotic idea of dis-unifying the country.


Frankly I think it's destined to happen. Probably (and hopefully) not for a very long time but I firmly believe that all empires are doomed to collapse.


Splitting the Roman Empire between east and west definitely caused it's demise in the west.


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TW1ZTY
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07 Oct 2018, 4:03 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
I wonder what would happen if all 50 states disbanded? I guess it would be like what happened to the Soviet Union. Some states would still manage to do OK on their own and some would be completely ruined.


The breakup of the Soviet Union was analogous to the breakup of the British, and French, colonial empires after the second world war. Not really analogous to US states seceding from the Union.

The Russian Republic (the ruling part that lies west of the Ural Mountians in Europe: aka "Russia Proper") can be likened to England. The part of the Russian Republic that lies east of the Urals in Asia( aka "Siberia") can be likened to Australia (a storehouse for raw materials and a convenient dumping ground for convicts).

The Ukraine and Belarus can be likened to Ireland, and Scotland.

The Baltic states don't have a clear analog in the old British Empire.

The former Soviet Republics of the Caucasus and Central Asia (Azerbijan, Armenia, Georgia, Kazahkistan, Uzbekistan, etc) can be likened to Britain's African and Asian former colonies (Kenya, India, etc).

So decolonization of the USSR was an expected thing. Not sci fi like each American state breaking away from Washington.

But if that sci fi scenario were to happen then, yes for most US states it would be a disaster.

California would do fine, and would probably become world power unto itself.

But landlocked states like Nebraska would have no access to the sea except through hundreds of miles of what would then be foreign countries. Iowans wouldn't be able to get their soybeans to their market in China without river barges and trains going through a half of a dozen states-now foreign countries just to get to the sea port. And the same in reverse with imported goods from China. And each state would have to have its own defense department. And would have to guard its borders from its neighbors (the neighboring states now foreign countries). It would take a lot of adjustment to say the least.


If something as stupid and senseless as the breakup of the USA were ever to happen, I would imagine it would be common for the various independent American states to form at the very least trade alliances to further economic prosperity, while grumbling about who ever came up with the idiotic idea of dis-unifying the country.


Frankly I think it's destined to happen. Probably (and hopefully) not for a very long time but I firmly believe that all empires are doomed to collapse.


Splitting the Roman Empire between east and west definitely caused it's demise in the west.



But now it's a great place for tourism. :D



sly279
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07 Oct 2018, 6:51 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
I wonder what would happen if all 50 states disbanded? I guess it would be like what happened to the Soviet Union. Some states would still manage to do OK on their own and some would be completely ruined.


The breakup of the Soviet Union was analogous to the breakup of the British, and French, colonial empires after the second world war. Not really analogous to US states seceding from the Union.

The Russian Republic (the ruling part that lies west of the Ural Mountians in Europe: aka "Russia Proper") can be likened to England. The part of the Russian Republic that lies east of the Urals in Asia( aka "Siberia") can be likened to Australia (a storehouse for raw materials and a convenient dumping ground for convicts).

The Ukraine and Belarus can be likened to Ireland, and Scotland.

The Baltic states don't have a clear analog in the old British Empire.

The former Soviet Republics of the Caucasus and Central Asia (Azerbijan, Armenia, Georgia, Kazahkistan, Uzbekistan, etc) can be likened to Britain's African and Asian former colonies (Kenya, India, etc).

So decolonization of the USSR was an expected thing. Not sci fi like each American state breaking away from Washington.

But if that sci fi scenario were to happen then, yes for most US states it would be a disaster.

California would do fine, and would probably become world power unto itself.

But landlocked states like Nebraska would have no access to the sea except through hundreds of miles of what would then be foreign countries. Iowans wouldn't be able to get their soybeans to their market in China without river barges and trains going through a half of a dozen states-now foreign countries just to get to the sea port. And the same in reverse with imported goods from China. And each state would have to have its own defense department. And would have to guard its borders from its neighbors (the neighboring states now foreign countries). It would take a lot of adjustment to say the least.


If something as stupid and senseless as the breakup of the USA were ever to happen, I would imagine it would be common for the various independent American states to form at the very least trade alliances to further economic prosperity, while grumbling about who ever came up with the idiotic idea of dis-unifying the country.


Frankly I think it's destined to happen. Probably (and hopefully) not for a very long time but I firmly believe that all empires are doomed to collapse.

Empire collapse would be giving up our commonwealth territories and having less foreign bases and embassies not the country separating



Kraichgauer
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07 Oct 2018, 6:55 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
I wonder what would happen if all 50 states disbanded? I guess it would be like what happened to the Soviet Union. Some states would still manage to do OK on their own and some would be completely ruined.


The breakup of the Soviet Union was analogous to the breakup of the British, and French, colonial empires after the second world war. Not really analogous to US states seceding from the Union.

The Russian Republic (the ruling part that lies west of the Ural Mountians in Europe: aka "Russia Proper") can be likened to England. The part of the Russian Republic that lies east of the Urals in Asia( aka "Siberia") can be likened to Australia (a storehouse for raw materials and a convenient dumping ground for convicts).

The Ukraine and Belarus can be likened to Ireland, and Scotland.

The Baltic states don't have a clear analog in the old British Empire.

The former Soviet Republics of the Caucasus and Central Asia (Azerbijan, Armenia, Georgia, Kazahkistan, Uzbekistan, etc) can be likened to Britain's African and Asian former colonies (Kenya, India, etc).

So decolonization of the USSR was an expected thing. Not sci fi like each American state breaking away from Washington.

But if that sci fi scenario were to happen then, yes for most US states it would be a disaster.

California would do fine, and would probably become world power unto itself.

But landlocked states like Nebraska would have no access to the sea except through hundreds of miles of what would then be foreign countries. Iowans wouldn't be able to get their soybeans to their market in China without river barges and trains going through a half of a dozen states-now foreign countries just to get to the sea port. And the same in reverse with imported goods from China. And each state would have to have its own defense department. And would have to guard its borders from its neighbors (the neighboring states now foreign countries). It would take a lot of adjustment to say the least.


If something as stupid and senseless as the breakup of the USA were ever to happen, I would imagine it would be common for the various independent American states to form at the very least trade alliances to further economic prosperity, while grumbling about who ever came up with the idiotic idea of dis-unifying the country.


Frankly I think it's destined to happen. Probably (and hopefully) not for a very long time but I firmly believe that all empires are doomed to collapse.


Splitting the Roman Empire between east and west definitely caused it's demise in the west.



But now it's a great place for tourism. :D


Can't argue with that.


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TW1ZTY
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07 Oct 2018, 6:57 pm

sly279 wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
I wonder what would happen if all 50 states disbanded? I guess it would be like what happened to the Soviet Union. Some states would still manage to do OK on their own and some would be completely ruined.


The breakup of the Soviet Union was analogous to the breakup of the British, and French, colonial empires after the second world war. Not really analogous to US states seceding from the Union.

The Russian Republic (the ruling part that lies west of the Ural Mountians in Europe: aka "Russia Proper") can be likened to England. The part of the Russian Republic that lies east of the Urals in Asia( aka "Siberia") can be likened to Australia (a storehouse for raw materials and a convenient dumping ground for convicts).

The Ukraine and Belarus can be likened to Ireland, and Scotland.

The Baltic states don't have a clear analog in the old British Empire.

The former Soviet Republics of the Caucasus and Central Asia (Azerbijan, Armenia, Georgia, Kazahkistan, Uzbekistan, etc) can be likened to Britain's African and Asian former colonies (Kenya, India, etc).

So decolonization of the USSR was an expected thing. Not sci fi like each American state breaking away from Washington.

But if that sci fi scenario were to happen then, yes for most US states it would be a disaster.

California would do fine, and would probably become world power unto itself.

But landlocked states like Nebraska would have no access to the sea except through hundreds of miles of what would then be foreign countries. Iowans wouldn't be able to get their soybeans to their market in China without river barges and trains going through a half of a dozen states-now foreign countries just to get to the sea port. And the same in reverse with imported goods from China. And each state would have to have its own defense department. And would have to guard its borders from its neighbors (the neighboring states now foreign countries). It would take a lot of adjustment to say the least.


If something as stupid and senseless as the breakup of the USA were ever to happen, I would imagine it would be common for the various independent American states to form at the very least trade alliances to further economic prosperity, while grumbling about who ever came up with the idiotic idea of dis-unifying the country.


Frankly I think it's destined to happen. Probably (and hopefully) not for a very long time but I firmly believe that all empires are doomed to collapse.

Empire collapse would be giving up our commonwealth territories and having less foreign bases and embassies not the country separating


Don't you think that if our states broke apart and our centralized government collapsed then that is exactly what would happen?



naturalplastic
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07 Oct 2018, 7:15 pm

sly279 wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
I wonder what would happen if all 50 states disbanded? I guess it would be like what happened to the Soviet Union. Some states would still manage to do OK on their own and some would be completely ruined.


The breakup of the Soviet Union was analogous to the breakup of the British, and French, colonial empires after the second world war. Not really analogous to US states seceding from the Union.

The Russian Republic (the ruling part that lies west of the Ural Mountians in Europe: aka "Russia Proper") can be likened to England. The part of the Russian Republic that lies east of the Urals in Asia( aka "Siberia") can be likened to Australia (a storehouse for raw materials and a convenient dumping ground for convicts).

The Ukraine and Belarus can be likened to Ireland, and Scotland.

The Baltic states don't have a clear analog in the old British Empire.

The former Soviet Republics of the Caucasus and Central Asia (Azerbijan, Armenia, Georgia, Kazahkistan, Uzbekistan, etc) can be likened to Britain's African and Asian former colonies (Kenya, India, etc).

So decolonization of the USSR was an expected thing. Not sci fi like each American state breaking away from Washington.

But if that sci fi scenario were to happen then, yes for most US states it would be a disaster.

California would do fine, and would probably become world power unto itself.

But landlocked states like Nebraska would have no access to the sea except through hundreds of miles of what would then be foreign countries. Iowans wouldn't be able to get their soybeans to their market in China without river barges and trains going through a half of a dozen states-now foreign countries just to get to the sea port. And the same in reverse with imported goods from China. And each state would have to have its own defense department. And would have to guard its borders from its neighbors (the neighboring states now foreign countries). It would take a lot of adjustment to say the least.


If something as stupid and senseless as the breakup of the USA were ever to happen, I would imagine it would be common for the various independent American states to form at the very least trade alliances to further economic prosperity, while grumbling about who ever came up with the idiotic idea of dis-unifying the country.


Frankly I think it's destined to happen. Probably (and hopefully) not for a very long time but I firmly believe that all empires are doomed to collapse.

Empire collapse would be giving up our commonwealth territories and having less foreign bases and embassies not the country separating


Basically this.

The contiguous USA is "the mother country".

The "empire" is "the conquered provinces" (so to speak)over seas. Bases on the far end of the pacific rim, Germany, South Korea, our forces in trouble spots (like Afganistan). Maybe civilian assets as well like mines and factories owned by American companies in other countries.

The fall of the "empire" would be a return to prewar isolationism. WIthdrawal to our homeland . Not a break up of the homeland mother country itself.

The Spain lost its empire in the new world, but Spain the country still exists. The British Empire is basically gone, but England still exists.Ditto the Ottaman Empire and the nation of Turkey.

Americans think of the old Soviet Union as being equivalent to the USA, but it was actually the equivalent of the whole British Empire.



TW1ZTY
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07 Oct 2018, 7:21 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
sly279 wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
I wonder what would happen if all 50 states disbanded? I guess it would be like what happened to the Soviet Union. Some states would still manage to do OK on their own and some would be completely ruined.


The breakup of the Soviet Union was analogous to the breakup of the British, and French, colonial empires after the second world war. Not really analogous to US states seceding from the Union.

The Russian Republic (the ruling part that lies west of the Ural Mountians in Europe: aka "Russia Proper") can be likened to England. The part of the Russian Republic that lies east of the Urals in Asia( aka "Siberia") can be likened to Australia (a storehouse for raw materials and a convenient dumping ground for convicts).

The Ukraine and Belarus can be likened to Ireland, and Scotland.

The Baltic states don't have a clear analog in the old British Empire.

The former Soviet Republics of the Caucasus and Central Asia (Azerbijan, Armenia, Georgia, Kazahkistan, Uzbekistan, etc) can be likened to Britain's African and Asian former colonies (Kenya, India, etc).

So decolonization of the USSR was an expected thing. Not sci fi like each American state breaking away from Washington.

But if that sci fi scenario were to happen then, yes for most US states it would be a disaster.

California would do fine, and would probably become world power unto itself.

But landlocked states like Nebraska would have no access to the sea except through hundreds of miles of what would then be foreign countries. Iowans wouldn't be able to get their soybeans to their market in China without river barges and trains going through a half of a dozen states-now foreign countries just to get to the sea port. And the same in reverse with imported goods from China. And each state would have to have its own defense department. And would have to guard its borders from its neighbors (the neighboring states now foreign countries). It would take a lot of adjustment to say the least.


If something as stupid and senseless as the breakup of the USA were ever to happen, I would imagine it would be common for the various independent American states to form at the very least trade alliances to further economic prosperity, while grumbling about who ever came up with the idiotic idea of dis-unifying the country.


Frankly I think it's destined to happen. Probably (and hopefully) not for a very long time but I firmly believe that all empires are doomed to collapse.

Empire collapse would be giving up our commonwealth territories and having less foreign bases and embassies not the country separating


Basically this.

The contiguous USA is "the mother country".

The "empire" is "the conquered provinces" (so to speak)over seas. Bases on the far end of the pacific rim, Germany, South Korea, our forces in trouble spots (like Afganistan). Maybe civilian assets as well like mines and factories owned by American companies in other countries.

The fall of the "empire" would be a return to prewar isolationism. WIthdrawal to our homeland . Not a break up of the homeland mother country itself.

The Spain lost its empire in the new world, but Spain the country still exists. The British Empire is basically gone, but England still exists.Ditto the Ottaman Empire and the nation of Turkey.

Americans think of the old Soviet Union as being equivalent to the USA, but it was actually the equivalent of the whole British Empire.


Ok but if the states themselves disbanded it could still be a bad thing. I don't think we would have much of an "empire" if that happened.



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07 Oct 2018, 7:40 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
sly279 wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
I wonder what would happen if all 50 states disbanded? I guess it would be like what happened to the Soviet Union. Some states would still manage to do OK on their own and some would be completely ruined.


The breakup of the Soviet Union was analogous to the breakup of the British, and French, colonial empires after the second world war. Not really analogous to US states seceding from the Union.

The Russian Republic (the ruling part that lies west of the Ural Mountians in Europe: aka "Russia Proper") can be likened to England. The part of the Russian Republic that lies east of the Urals in Asia( aka "Siberia") can be likened to Australia (a storehouse for raw materials and a convenient dumping ground for convicts).

The Ukraine and Belarus can be likened to Ireland, and Scotland.

The Baltic states don't have a clear analog in the old British Empire.

The former Soviet Republics of the Caucasus and Central Asia (Azerbijan, Armenia, Georgia, Kazahkistan, Uzbekistan, etc) can be likened to Britain's African and Asian former colonies (Kenya, India, etc).

So decolonization of the USSR was an expected thing. Not sci fi like each American state breaking away from Washington.

But if that sci fi scenario were to happen then, yes for most US states it would be a disaster.

California would do fine, and would probably become world power unto itself.

But landlocked states like Nebraska would have no access to the sea except through hundreds of miles of what would then be foreign countries. Iowans wouldn't be able to get their soybeans to their market in China without river barges and trains going through a half of a dozen states-now foreign countries just to get to the sea port. And the same in reverse with imported goods from China. And each state would have to have its own defense department. And would have to guard its borders from its neighbors (the neighboring states now foreign countries). It would take a lot of adjustment to say the least.


If something as stupid and senseless as the breakup of the USA were ever to happen, I would imagine it would be common for the various independent American states to form at the very least trade alliances to further economic prosperity, while grumbling about who ever came up with the idiotic idea of dis-unifying the country.


Frankly I think it's destined to happen. Probably (and hopefully) not for a very long time but I firmly believe that all empires are doomed to collapse.

Empire collapse would be giving up our commonwealth territories and having less foreign bases and embassies not the country separating


Basically this.

The contiguous USA is "the mother country".

The "empire" is "the conquered provinces" (so to speak)over seas. Bases on the far end of the pacific rim, Germany, South Korea, our forces in trouble spots (like Afganistan). Maybe civilian assets as well like mines and factories owned by American companies in other countries.

The fall of the "empire" would be a return to prewar isolationism. WIthdrawal to our homeland . Not a break up of the homeland mother country itself.

The Spain lost its empire in the new world, but Spain the country still exists. The British Empire is basically gone, but England still exists.Ditto the Ottaman Empire and the nation of Turkey.

Americans think of the old Soviet Union as being equivalent to the USA, but it was actually the equivalent of the whole British Empire.


Ok but if the states themselves disbanded it could still be a bad thing. I don't think we would have much of an "empire" if that happened.




You have lost the thread of your own logic.

You are claiming that the US will break up by state into fifty countries.

But you offer no evidence for this prediction except for one thing: your contention that "all empires do that".

But NO empire did that. Empires loose their conquered provinces. The mother country doesn't necessarily break up.
As big as it is the whole US is just the "mother country". The states are not the equivalent of the conquered provinces of Rome, or the colonies of Spain, or of Great Britain.

There fore saying "all empires fall" is not evidence for your prediction. Therefore your prediction is wrong. The US is not likely to break up into its constituent states by your reasoning. So why are still talking about your wrong prediction?



TW1ZTY
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07 Oct 2018, 7:49 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
sly279 wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
I wonder what would happen if all 50 states disbanded? I guess it would be like what happened to the Soviet Union. Some states would still manage to do OK on their own and some would be completely ruined.


The breakup of the Soviet Union was analogous to the breakup of the British, and French, colonial empires after the second world war. Not really analogous to US states seceding from the Union.

The Russian Republic (the ruling part that lies west of the Ural Mountians in Europe: aka "Russia Proper") can be likened to England. The part of the Russian Republic that lies east of the Urals in Asia( aka "Siberia") can be likened to Australia (a storehouse for raw materials and a convenient dumping ground for convicts).

The Ukraine and Belarus can be likened to Ireland, and Scotland.

The Baltic states don't have a clear analog in the old British Empire.

The former Soviet Republics of the Caucasus and Central Asia (Azerbijan, Armenia, Georgia, Kazahkistan, Uzbekistan, etc) can be likened to Britain's African and Asian former colonies (Kenya, India, etc).

So decolonization of the USSR was an expected thing. Not sci fi like each American state breaking away from Washington.

But if that sci fi scenario were to happen then, yes for most US states it would be a disaster.

California would do fine, and would probably become world power unto itself.

But landlocked states like Nebraska would have no access to the sea except through hundreds of miles of what would then be foreign countries. Iowans wouldn't be able to get their soybeans to their market in China without river barges and trains going through a half of a dozen states-now foreign countries just to get to the sea port. And the same in reverse with imported goods from China. And each state would have to have its own defense department. And would have to guard its borders from its neighbors (the neighboring states now foreign countries). It would take a lot of adjustment to say the least.


If something as stupid and senseless as the breakup of the USA were ever to happen, I would imagine it would be common for the various independent American states to form at the very least trade alliances to further economic prosperity, while grumbling about who ever came up with the idiotic idea of dis-unifying the country.


Frankly I think it's destined to happen. Probably (and hopefully) not for a very long time but I firmly believe that all empires are doomed to collapse.

Empire collapse would be giving up our commonwealth territories and having less foreign bases and embassies not the country separating


Basically this.

The contiguous USA is "the mother country".

The "empire" is "the conquered provinces" (so to speak)over seas. Bases on the far end of the pacific rim, Germany, South Korea, our forces in trouble spots (like Afganistan). Maybe civilian assets as well like mines and factories owned by American companies in other countries.

The fall of the "empire" would be a return to prewar isolationism. WIthdrawal to our homeland . Not a break up of the homeland mother country itself.

The Spain lost its empire in the new world, but Spain the country still exists. The British Empire is basically gone, but England still exists.Ditto the Ottaman Empire and the nation of Turkey.

Americans think of the old Soviet Union as being equivalent to the USA, but it was actually the equivalent of the whole British Empire.


Ok but if the states themselves disbanded it could still be a bad thing. I don't think we would have much of an "empire" if that happened.




You have lost the thread of your own logic.

You are claiming that the US will break up by state into fifty countries.

But you offer no evidence for this prediction except for one thing: your contention that "all empires do that".

But NO empire did that. Empires loose their conquered provinces. The mother country doesn't necessarily break up.
As big as it is the whole US is just the "mother country". The states are not the equivalent of the conquered provinces of Rome, or the colonies of Spain, or of Great Britain.

There fore saying "all empires fall" is not evidence for your prediction. Therefore your prediction is wrong. The US is not likely to break up into its constituent states by your reasoning. So why are still talking about your wrong prediction?


Ok so I'm wrong. Forgive me for being a stupid idiot. :D



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09 Oct 2018, 8:31 pm

I nominate Airstrip One to become the 51st state


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TW1ZTY
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09 Oct 2018, 8:56 pm

I nominate The Moon.

We need somewhere to station Trump's space force right? :lol:



RetroGamer87
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09 Oct 2018, 9:44 pm

Perhaps space itself could become the 51st state. That would make the United States into largest country.


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