Why do people think an embryo/fetus looks like this?

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I read that article on Iceland and the Downs Syndrome abortions. The only thing I got out of it is that there is one entity pushing, but it's the Pro Lifers pushing women to have those babies against their will. The Icelandic counselors are leaving it up to the women to make that decision.

I haven't looked at the other one yet.

The second link is an ethics guide.

And nowhere in either one do I find evidence to back up this statement: " The democrat party may want more health care, but it throws away life, highly encouraging abortion for any disability what so ever."

Educating women is not "pushing" them to do anything. It is however providing them every effort to make the most well-informed decision they can. And so I can also see why pro lifers generally really dislike women being educated and having the ability to control their own bodies.

I suspect you are coming from a position of religion. In which case we will never see eye to eye. As an atheist, I find religion laughable at best; at worst it's dangerous.

I hope this isn't about religion, because frankly anyone should be able to tell that genocide is wrong without being told.

About the link, I just grabbed the first one as my computer was about to run out of battery.

Once a prenatal diagnoses comes up it is extremely common for doctors to push abortion, and limit information about the reality of the disability, also when abortion comes up they aren't commonly guided to resources on adoption or resources for parents.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/06/ ... dard-life/
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1967/87/section/1

Also, do not forget I am also a women. It is simply that just because I am a women doesn't mean I can do whatever I want, I see no real distinction between a husband acting as the owner of his wife, and a woman acting like the owner of her unborn child.

Even in cases regarding control of the body only affecting one person, like a severe anorexic refusing to eat, they can be hospitalized and forced to eat. That is only affecting one person, remember, but abortion affects two, and kills one of the two.

Because you cannot ever get it back, no matter what you do. You only get one of them, and all good and bad in your life is dependent on you being alive to ever reach you.

Pro lifers will use propaganda to try and push their agenda on people. It's pure manipulation. Once you learn the truth, you see how crazy this all is. I also found out a fetus cannot feel pain until they are around 20 weeks. This source says they cannot feel it until the 3rd trimester.

https://www.livescience.com/54774-fetal ... hesia.html


It used to be 20 weeks.

But pro lifers will dismiss science.

Neither abortion nor assisted suicide have to be either completely forbidden or allowed under all circumstances.
You can allow something under some circumstances but not under others. It doesn't necessarily escalate into either direction, however it may change over time - whether law takes an extreme position or one in the middle.

Personally I think assisted suicide with informed consent and for mentally sound patients (at least in some countries there's also a waiting period in case the person reconsiders) is a good thing. It doesn't show a lack of respect for one's self or one's life (and other people are not to deiced for you how exactly you are to act such that you respect yourself). Probably the terminally ill person considering assisted suicide is in enough pain life doesn't feel worth living anymore.

I do not think that abortion should necessarily be available under all circumstances no matter what because 'my body my choice' is one possible way to place your moral values but you can not prove that it is the only or the best.

As a matter of fact the unborn child is human and it does have a body that's very much affected by the decision to abort or not. Whether or not this is relevant or not is a matter of your ethical or moral values and as such you can not objectively prove it.
The unborn child can neither make the decision to keep living nor to get killed thus it's not a choice you take away from them, but neither could a born baby because a born baby also can not communicate and isn't able to understand what death is.
The line gets blurry and forbidding even aborting a zygote via a pill or allowing abortion until birth are not the only options. Even after it is defined what is or isn't morally relevant it may not be possible to find one single ideal solution, unless you chose your moral values in such a way that completely banning abortion or allowing it until birth is the ideal solution in your opinion.

I've never seen anyone argue against pills that abort zygotes except for religious reasons - and some people argue against contraceptives for the same reason - and as an atheist I do not agree with religious reasons.

Banning abortion completely can also lead to more abortions being carried out illegally and thus being more dangerous for the mother or crippling instead of killing the unborn.

I do not agree with aborting shortly before birth either. As soon as the fetus could live if it was born right now, the difference between baby and fetus is only the event of birth itself.
As soon as it can feel it is definitely relevant to me that it has a body too and not just the woman does.

Where exactly I'd draw the line or which countries do it reasonably is something I do not think I'm knowledgeable enough to decide.

Frankly, so? Could I kill a grown adult if I used a strong pain killer first?
There is also a rare condition that causes people to feel no pain at all, however I don't think it is proper to kill such a person either.

Do you think chickens look the way they do at the beginning stages of development? Horses? Dogs? No, they do not. Human beings aren't "things", first off. They're HUMAN BEINGS. It's life, and it begins at conception, contrary to what Planned Parenthood and NARAL might have you believe.

Ugh.

I look human-ish so are you going to pigeonhole me & say I look human? I could be a robot. I could have been cloned, my mom is a microbiologist anyway so I'm not ruling it out. Bottom line, we are made up of our thoughts & experiences, bodies are just bodies.

Beyond that, I'm also rather male-looking so I'm going to shut up now.

Life & death actually don't seem to ever begin or end.

Eh. For the most part the abortion argument is really silly.

A lot of conservatives and liberals believe that abortion is okay in the case of "Rape, incest or life of the mother" - and that makes sense.

Then you have the hardcore people on either side who believe there should either be no abortion at all, or that women should be able to abort the fetus for no reason anytime they want.

Abortion for rape, incest and life of the mother makes total sense and should be the legal-standard.

And of course a embryo/fetus (any growing Human in utero) is a Human and should have human rights.

I used to be a Democrat, but when I saw how they pretend embryos/fetuses aren't Humans - I realized they didn't live in reality and I didn't want anything to do with them after that.

Last edited by ShyGirl7 on 12 Jan 2019, 3:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

"If it can't feel pain - go ahead and kill it!"
- Democrat Motto

Agreed. And I'm not sure why this isn't more obvious to people.

Its the point of it doesn't become a baby right away, so people should not consider it that so early. Or I guess they can but they should not impose that on other people. The point of how it looks was more to illustrate that it doesn't start as a baby...so if someone wants to abort their early pregnancy they should have the right to. They aren't killing a baby they are stopping a cellular process that could create one.

As far as the universe is concerned we are really just things...things that live on this planet, with the forces of the universe this planet could be destroyed in an instant. So on the over-all scale of the universe we really are just things. That said a sentient life form does not develop at conception, science does not support that idea...it takes quite a while for a sperm fertilized egg to become a baby. Enough time that you could abort it before it becomes one, which for a person having such a thing growing inside them should be able to choose if they want to keep it or not.

Just because it doesn't look like a baby, or is not able to survive outside the womb, doesn't mean that it's not a human being worthy of life.