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JohnPowell
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10 Oct 2018, 4:30 pm

Does every thread have to be about Trump? People like Clinton speak in favour of gun control in the US but happily arms Al Qaeda in the Middle East.


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Spooky_Mulder
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10 Oct 2018, 4:32 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Does every thread have to be about Trump? People like Clinton speak in favour of gun control in the US but happily arms Al Qaeda in the Middle East.


Trump's name was barely mentioned - violence and its incitement was made a part of the thread since you brought inciting it up and only focused on democrats. Trump is just one part of the equation, everything else - the actual attacks - were by right-wingers, unless Trump is going around killing people and committing domestic terrorist attacks in his spare time. Since that isn't the case, it's right-wingers overall which extends beyond Trump and just naming him alone would be doing victims a grave injustice. Thus, myself and others can readily call out right wingers inciting and committing acts of violence as well.



Last edited by Spooky_Mulder on 10 Oct 2018, 4:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.

cberg
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10 Oct 2018, 4:32 pm

That's primarily because mainstream democrats are no less shameless capitalists than their republican counterparts.

I wouldn't say U.S. liberals are in any way denying Hillary was the wrong candidate, we just mixed too much money & idol worship into all our politics.


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Spooky_Mulder
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10 Oct 2018, 4:37 pm

cberg wrote:
I wouldn't say U.S. liberals are in any way denying Hillary was the wrong candidate.


Eh... many frighteningly are.

God help us if the DNC decides to try the witch again in 2020.



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10 Oct 2018, 4:41 pm

Magna wrote:
I don't think I'll ever get past Bill Clinton's willful desecration of the Oval Office.

Fake news, men are the victims now. Didn't you get the memo?



JohnPowell
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10 Oct 2018, 4:41 pm

Spooky_Mulder wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Does every thread have to be about Trump? People like Clinton speak in favour of gun control in the US but happily arms Al Qaeda in the Middle East.


Trump's name was barely mentioned - violence and its incitement was made a part of the thread since you brought inciting it up and only focused on democrats. Trump is just one part of the equation, everything else - the actual attacks - were by right-wingers, unless Trump is going around killing people and committing domestic terrorist attacks in his spare time. Since that isn't the case, it's right-wingers overall which extends beyond Trump and just naming him alone would be doing victims a grave injustice. Thus, myself and others can readily call out right wingers inciting and committing acts of violence as well.


I'm not denying the right wing maniacs are just as bad. But the left are so virtuous and preach about tolerance but act like a bunch of thugs. You response to me talking about Democrats inciting violence being 'well the right do it too' is not a an argument and doesn't solve or help anything. We need to try and get to the route causes.


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Spooky_Mulder
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10 Oct 2018, 4:42 pm

If you had stated in your first post that both sides were inciting violence, that would be one thing.

Since you didn't, there is no harm in bringing in bipartisan and factual data.

Unless you wanted it to be slanted? If you didn't, there should be no issue with making the thread bipartisan.



Last edited by Spooky_Mulder on 10 Oct 2018, 4:45 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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10 Oct 2018, 4:43 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
I really feel sorry for people on America who vote republican one year, after four years realise nothing has changed and vote democrat... Ad infinitum.

Trump is exactly the same as Clinton, who was exactly the same as Obama, who was exactly the same as Bush. When are Americans going to realise that the man in the White House is just a figurehead. It's the corporations who are pulling the strings and has been since - at least - the end of the second world war, which is why nothing ever changes.

As an American I'd vote for a third party/ independent or throw my vote away.


Yeah. Thinking one crooked party is going to save you from the other one is just beating a dead horse.


I'm getting tired of the whole "lesser of two evils" argument. It will get us nowhere! I got so sick trying to have conversations with Hillary supporters in 2016, they just wouldn't listen to a word I said. It was like they were part of the Borg collective -- same with Trump supporters. I was told that by voting third-party I was responsible for putting Trump in the White House. I am so sick of the polemic rhetoric of American politics. There's no way to get through to any of these people any more. I think we are past hope. The dumbing down of Americans is complete!


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Spooky_Mulder
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10 Oct 2018, 4:47 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
I got so sick trying to have conversations with Hillary supporters in 2016, they just wouldn't listen to a word I said. It was like they were part of the Borg collective -- same with Trump supporters.


They are one and the same. Not be agist. But Millenials by and large went towards Bernie and far away from Hillary. Meanwhile baby boomers are among the largest Hillary and Trump supporters statistically, so it's not really surprising that supporters of both vehemently deny any wrong in their idol in the same manner since they share the same generation.

It could also just be dementia settling in (which if that's the case, praying it doesn't get worse).



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10 Oct 2018, 4:51 pm

Spooky_Mulder wrote:
If you had stated in your first post that both sides were inciting violence, that would be one thing.

Since you didn't, there is no harm in bringing in bipartisan and factual data.

Unless you wanted it to be slanted? If you didn't, there should be no issue with making the thread bipartisan.


This post was about the Clintons and the Democrat party. I don't see the dozens of anti Trump posts countered by the poster with a piece about left wing violence.


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10 Oct 2018, 4:53 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
I don't see the dozens of anti Trump posts countered by the poster with a piece about left wing violence.


If someone wants to do that to try to make a thread bipartisan they are more than welcome to do so just like I am more than welcome to repost the hate crime and terrorism statics wherever that poster might. I still fail to see an issue. Bipartisan data is healthy. Notice how I have no qualms with a right-winger posting that data anywhere they desire.



Last edited by Spooky_Mulder on 10 Oct 2018, 4:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

JohnPowell
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10 Oct 2018, 4:54 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
I really feel sorry for people on America who vote republican one year, after four years realise nothing has changed and vote democrat... Ad infinitum.

Trump is exactly the same as Clinton, who was exactly the same as Obama, who was exactly the same as Bush. When are Americans going to realise that the man in the White House is just a figurehead. It's the corporations who are pulling the strings and has been since - at least - the end of the second world war, which is why nothing ever changes.

As an American I'd vote for a third party/ independent or throw my vote away.


Yeah. Thinking one crooked party is going to save you from the other one is just beating a dead horse.


I'm getting tired of the whole "lesser of two evils" argument. It will get us nowhere! I got so sick trying to have conversations with Hillary supporters in 2016, they just wouldn't listen to a word I said. It was like they were part of the Borg collective -- same with Trump supporters. I was told that by voting third-party I was responsible for putting Trump in the White House. I am so sick of the polemic rhetoric of American politics. There's no way to get through to any of these people any more. I think we are past hope. The dumbing down of Americans is complete!


They see everything in black and white and make excuses for all the evils their side carries out because it is their team doing it. Because of the hysteria about Trump even when he does something positive, that makes Trump's fans support him even more.


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JohnPowell
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10 Oct 2018, 4:56 pm

Spooky_Mulder wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
I don't see the dozens of anti Trump posts countered by the poster with a piece about left wing violence.


If someone wants to do that to try to make a thread bipartisan they are more than welcome to do so just like I am more than welcome to repost the hate crime and terrorism statics wherever that poster might. I still fail to see an issue. Bipartisan data is healthy.


Well I can't disagree.


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10 Oct 2018, 5:01 pm

Adding a piece of Clinton supporter extremism:

If you ever supported Bernie and if you ever called Clinton out for why she wasn't a great candidate, but voted for Clinton against Trump - Clinton supporters still vehemently treated you like you were the enemy. I can't even count on two hands the number of Clinton supporters I got into huge arguments with after the election. From dealing with both of their "my hero can do no wrong" denialism I see little difference between them in terms of their cult-based worship levels.



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10 Oct 2018, 8:22 pm

Spooky_Mulder wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
I got so sick trying to have conversations with Hillary supporters in 2016, they just wouldn't listen to a word I said. It was like they were part of the Borg collective -- same with Trump supporters.


They are one and the same. Not be agist. But Millenials by and large went towards Bernie and far away from Hillary. Meanwhile baby boomers are among the largest Hillary and Trump supporters statistically, so it's not really surprising that supporters of both vehemently deny any wrong in their idol in the same manner since they share the same generation.

It could also just be dementia settling in (which if that's the case, praying it doesn't get worse).



Maybe you're right. Maybe the millennials are less likely to accept the bullshit fed to us by the status quo. That gives me some hope. But until you give up on the idea that there is a 'lesser of the two evils," we will continue down the same path for a very long time. This is coming from an aging "boomer" who will likely be dead before he sees any measurable change in the political system in place since long before he was suckling at his mother's teet.


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