My interest in this world is that which is not of this world

Page 5 of 8 [ 117 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

Prometheus18
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Aug 2018
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,866

12 Oct 2018, 5:19 pm

Fnord wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
... I recently read an excellent book by French ufologist Jacques Valee called UFOs - The Psychic Connection in which he posits that UFO phenomena are a modern manifestation of an ancient control mechanism, whose nature he admits he doesn't understand, used to direct human civilisation.
In other words, the author is saying "Oh, look! Here's something shiny! I don't know what it is, but I have a lot to say about it!"

Does he have any evidence to back up his claims?


I don't believe Vallee ever claims in the book to have personally had a close encounter. His interest is purely scientific - he was an astrophysicist and computer scientist who was also associated with the US government's Project Blue book, I believe.

In relation to your second statement, he presents, as I recall, some evidence, though admittedly not enough to totally convince me. I suppose one is necessarily faced with a difficulty in describing phenomena which, ex hypothesi, are inexplicable in terms of what science currently understands.

All that said, I think he's at least touching on some important discovery, which neither he nor I at all understand, but which will - maybe - someday be vindicated by subsequent scientific discoveries.

A fascinating read either way.



Prometheus18
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Aug 2018
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,866

12 Oct 2018, 5:20 pm

UFOs: The Psychic Solution, Jacques Vallee, Granada Publishing Ltd, 1977.



SaveFerris
Banned
Banned

User avatar

Joined: 3 Sep 2016
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,690
Location: UK

12 Oct 2018, 5:27 pm

Mythos wrote:


I'd recommend watching one or two James Randi videos.


I've had a great email conversation with Mr Randi and he sent me a free signed copy of one of his books , Randi rocks


_________________
R Tape loading error, 0:1

Hypocrisy is the greatest luxury. Raise the double standard


quite an extreme
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Aug 2018
Age: 321
Gender: Male
Posts: 872
Location: Germany

12 Oct 2018, 6:07 pm

Bether3 wrote:
My interest in this world is that which is not of this world

It seems to me that we are living in a quite different world and that my world isn't even a part of your world. But may be I became in a strange way a part of your imaginary world that I can't even imagine it. It's because the world as we recognise it is only an imaginary thing within our brains. It's just a model of the real world that our brain generates. But because the world as you experience it is only a model within your mind your mind has to be a little more than just this current model of the real world that it creates. Your mind is able to imagine and experience things that aren't currently a part of the model and for this they are also not a part of the world as you normally experience it. We should try to become the nicest picture within each others brain. Imagination is a really wonderful thing. :D


_________________
I am as I am. :skull: :sunny: :wink: :sunny: :skull:


Last edited by quite an extreme on 12 Oct 2018, 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 42,042
Location: Stendec

12 Oct 2018, 6:45 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:
UFOs: The Psychic Solution, Jacques Vallee, Granada Publishing Ltd, 1977.
While his ideas are indeed interesting, the are only hypothetical in nature -- testable, but untested, and thus unverified, therefore unproven.

That's the trouble with every book on the topics of UFOs, psychic phenomena, supernatural principles, mysticism, et cetera, that I've read so far, each is long on ideas and speculation, but utterly lacking in proof.

Even one successful demonstration under controlled conditions and in the presence of professional researchers and stage magicians would go a long way toward bringing mysticism into the mainstream.



Prometheus18
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Aug 2018
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,866

12 Oct 2018, 7:06 pm

Fnord wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
UFOs: The Psychic Solution, Jacques Vallee, Granada Publishing Ltd, 1977.
While his ideas are indeed interesting, the are only hypothetical in nature -- testable, but untested, and thus unverified, therefore unproven.

That's the trouble with every book on the topics of UFOs, psychic phenomena, supernatural principles, mysticism, et cetera, that I've read so far, each is long on ideas and speculation, but utterly lacking in proof.

Even one successful demonstration under controlled conditions and in the presence of professional researchers and stage magicians would go a long way toward bringing mysticism into the mainstream.


Oh, I wouldn't throw mysticism and UFO phenomena in the same basket; mysticism is, by definition irrational - or perhaps arational. This of course doesn't rob it wholly of its value - Eckhart, Julian of Norwich, Teresa of Avila, Francis Assisi, Isaac the Blind and so forth wrote some of the best literature of their day, but whatever value mysticism has - and I acknowledge it to have a great deal - that value isn't rational, as such.

UFOs, on the other hand, at least in principle admit of rational verification, and indeed, the number of reputable reports from airline pilots, high ranking government and military officials, scientists and so forth all but prove that there is some objective reality to the UFO phenomenon; we just don't know WHAT UFOs are. Jung proposed that they are a psychological projection, others proposed mass hysteria, many propose that UFOs are ships piloted by extraterrestrials. Nobody knows what UFOs are, which is why the question needs to be investigated by scientific means.

I recommend you read Vallee's book - I think it might be out of copyright and therefore available online as a free pdf. I personally downloaded it from Scribd, a subscription site.



techstepgenr8tion
SomeRandomGuy
SomeRandomGuy

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 21,219
Location: The 27th Path of Peh.

12 Oct 2018, 8:21 pm

I think where Jaques Vallee and John Keel stand out is that they make a quite rational analysis of the behavior of the phenomena, as described by the observers, and come to the conclusion that the UFO phenomena sits much better with the historical fairy phenomena than anything resembling behavior of a rational race of beings coming to visit in 'brick and mortar' or 'nuts and bolts' spacecraft from some distant planet or galaxy.

The other part, I've seen too many cases where UFO, yeti, and all kind of other strange things were rolled into one bag along with burn marks on the ground from whatever was there. If there are as many of those kinds of reports it would suggest that these are more akin to rips or herniations in the ways we're used to space and time operating and that whatever's coming through is probably much less foreign or traveled than some would like to believe.

Also, on the topic of evidence, I think Dean Radin made a fairly good point about the Randi challenge. To say that with a big enough sample size of volunteers, retested enough times, you'd get an average of something like 5-6% lead on the Ganzfeld effect (something Susan Blackmore's not even sure what to make of, it's another one of those oddities that most people in the field seem to agree on) - you may very well end up spending the million dollar prize for the study to get the million dollar prize. To that extent James Randi was really good at convincing people that gurus and most pop mediums are BS, which is fine in it's own domain, but it doesn't say a heck of a lot about more subtle and pervasive effects which are a lot less exciting, probably less controversial (except maybe to niche ideologies). It perhaps tells us that it's not what some people might wish it was, ie. real life Hogwarts, that's not the same as saying it's whole cloth.


_________________
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privelege of owning yourself" - Rudyard Kipling


techstepgenr8tion
SomeRandomGuy
SomeRandomGuy

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 21,219
Location: The 27th Path of Peh.

12 Oct 2018, 8:35 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:
I love Ufology, mythology, Kabbalah, the paranormal, NDEs - everything like that, though I still consider myself an atheist and all around skeptic.


From my time studying the whole post-Golden Dawn collation of tarot, qabalah, and alchemy (ie. the Tree of Life with the tarot cards assigned to the paths, Hebrew letters, and all of that) it seems like the best I can reckon that system is it's something of the ultimate 'getting your house in order'. Symbols seem in a lot of ways like mathematical objects, stringing them together (like tarot cards representing letters to spell words) is like building a syntax, something Paul Foster Case was really big on.

The exercise of mysticism seems to be acknowledging that we have a sort of black-boxed void within us that things we don't always understand come out of. It seems to be an attempt to pry at that boundary, in some sense taking something like a Freudian unconscious-retrieval approach or at least thinning the barrier enough to get ourselves on speaking terms with that part of our mind and in that sense it's much more of a respectful rather than imperial approach.

I think what's surprised me the most in the past five or six years is just how many strange and divine-ish things arise not out of my head but my heart. I mean that quite literally. It really pushes me to accept that we're not just dealing with mysteries in the way that Noam Chomsky or Collin McGinn might use the term but very vibrant and alive forces, of the types that John of the Cross spoke quite vividly about.


_________________
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privelege of owning yourself" - Rudyard Kipling


Bether3
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

Joined: 20 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 68

13 Oct 2018, 12:57 am

Fnord wrote:
Bether3 wrote:
It's hard to fill a cup that is already full. You're clearly very scientific-minded, which is wonderful and which I appreciate, as I love science, but I would articulate my so-called knowledge in mystical matters in a manner that would not suffice.
Bether3 wrote:
I am going to highly recommend that you read one of my favorite books, "Mind into Matter: A New Alchemy of Science and Spirit" by physicist Fred Alan Wolf, as he speaks your language. https://www.amazon.com/Mind-into-Matter ... 0966132769
Excuses and a book pitch? C'mon! If you know what you're talking about, and if you can articulate it in simple terms, then I can learn it.

For example, did you see how easy it is to explain the Inverse-Square Law?

I'll try to get a copy of the book, but if it reads like every other New Age text, then it'll be a waste of money. Flowery prose went out of favor in the scientific community sometime during the Industrial Revolution, and was replaced with plain-language descriptions and easy-to-follow mathematical principles. Heck, even Einstein's Matter-Energy Equivalency formula uses only three terms, and its meaning is understandable by a fifth-grader!


I gave no excuse. Mysticism is a very broad subject. What specifically would you like to know? I’ll do my best to explain what I've learned, experienced in the simplest of terms.
If you are so eager to learn, there are a ton of resources out there from people whom are far more versed than I. I did not start this thread as a means to spout my knowledge on the subject of mysticism, but to share in my love of it, to know peoples’ experiences of it, and to learn more.
Unlike scientific laws, mysticism is difficult to put into words. “The finger pointing to the moon, is not to be mistaken for the moon”.
It’s like trying to describe the taste of water, the feel of air, and color to those whom are blind.
Just because someone cannot see something does not mean it’s not there, which you evidently disagree with. I cannot teach to you see, especially when you have blinders on.
It doesn’t read like “every other New Age text”. There is formulae and physics concepts throughout.
Again, I will answer your questions to the best of my ability. After that, it is up to you to expand your learning.


_________________
"Understand me. I’m not like an ordinary world. I have my madness, I live in another dimension and I do not have time for things that have no soul." ~Bukowski


SabbraCadabra
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,913
Location: Michigan

13 Oct 2018, 5:34 am

Fnord wrote:
Example: A family is relaxing at their California home. Suddenly, all of the dogs in the neighborhood start howling and the cat is desperately trying to get outside. Less than a minute later, an earthquake strikes.

I had something like that happen once. I was outside, raking leaves, and suddenly all of the dogs in the neighborhood started howling like mad. I've never heard anything like it before.

About a minute later, an ambulance at the nearby hospital starts up its sirens and takes off, and the dogs immediately silence.

It was pretty spoopy.

Do you have a "What's in the Box?" set up currently?


_________________
he had a lot to say, he had a lot of nothing to say
we'll miss him


Mythos
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 457
Location: England

13 Oct 2018, 6:03 am

aghogday wrote:
Mythos wrote:
Bether3 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Still waiting for proof that the immeasurable actually exists.



The immeasurable can't be measured, therefore the only proof one can get is to experience it.
If something cannot be measured, testable, repeatable, verifiable, quantified in some measure and universal in nature, it cannot be registered as true.

The issue with mysticism is that it seemingly begins with a base that is not only immeasurable and thus unverifiable, as a result there can be no agreed consensus. It exists as an entity seemingly designed to obfuscate itself so that snake oil salespeople can jump in and steal money with their charlatanism.

I'd recommend watching one or two James Randi videos.


Scientists Readily admit that Human Emotion cannot be reliably Measured, Tested, Repeated, and Quantified in a Measure
that is Universal in Nature across the Spectrum of all Human beings; yet, Scientists Readily Admit that Human Emotion is
at the core of all Human Reasons that we 'think' we do. Yes, Even though Science cannot Reliably Measure Human Emotion
in all the Colors it comes Across the Human Spectrum; or even offer Helpful Hints that reliably work on how to Regain those Emotions or Birth them that Science Shows now is core to all Human Cognitive Executive Functioning as well as
Health and Well Being too; Never the Less, Human Emotions Persist and Rule at least in Human Beings
who Enjoy a River Flow now of Consciousness Well Integrated with Subconscious Shadow
Being of Mind; per specifically, the Limbic System; and the Reptile Brain as well
as the Hippocampus too; with sure, the Cerebellum for Integrated Autonomic
Function that can and will even be Mastered in Bio-Feed back of Still
and Moving Meditation too where one controls their Heart Rate
and Blood Pressure; and even Body Temperature as Science Can and
Will and Does at least Empirically Measure that much among Yogis' and the Real Human Skills that Count they
and others continue to Master now; even if only through looking within with innate instinct and intuition now.

Such a Rational Delusion; Science Proves Most humans continue to be under who have not yet Mastered
the Limbic and Snake Brain Shadow that Science shows now that the Neo-Cortex is actually Servant to for real;

Not just my opinion; as Social Scientist Jonathan Haidt Provides Research to Suggest that as well per this Delusion.

And in Worse Case Scenarios, the Neo-Cortex is Slave to our Shadow Brains; as Addictions continue to
control the Lives of so many folks now; who have Developed no Art in Physical/Emotional Intelligences
to Regulate their Emotions and Integrate their Senses; with the Crutch of Addiction now to even survive life at all;

For it is true; they were not fully Introduced to Initiation Practices For Mastery of the Shadow Brains of their Subconscious
Mind that is the True Master of all of our Realities now; and as Long as we are currently Classically Evolved as Human.

Yet still; strangely enough some folks suggest that if the Scientific Method can't see it; it doesn't exist;
Perhaps folks who 'believe' this way are missing core parts of the Human Potential Experience as Science
Suggests that too about Scientists too; oh, so ironically so. In other Words, the old Stereotype of the
Absent Minded Professor who cannot even find His and or Her way out of a 'Basic Paper Bag' of
Life for Impoverished Emotions most definitely are in Direct Causation of Impoverished Cognitive Executive Functioning.

It's one thing to Follow, and Make a list, and Copy a list of Crystalized Intelligence but it is a different World of Intelligence
When Intelligence is Fluid in Mind and Body too; and not only Finds its way out of 'a Paper Bag' but Creates truly
Original Art
as Essence
in Form that has literally never been seen before;
And yes; that Relates to Science too for those Scientists
who have also Moved out of the Box of the Metaphor of 'Left Brain Think'.

Use it or Lose it applies to all potential Human Intelligences; and by God of Nature; i'd rather Have a fully colored
Physical/Emotional Life of Intelligences with a 70 IQ; than have an IQ assessed as off the Charts as Professionals with Degrees to do just that have suggested before; while i wasn't so Proud as to not admit that I was Literally 'Retarded' for what even counts
in
Life;
A Tin Man with a Heart.

Standard IQ and the Scientific Method has no Clue to Measure what it even means to truly be Human.

How Folks miss that is no longer Beyond what I was missing most of all before; I'm sure other folks can grow one too.

But it's true, when the 'Grinch' went up 'that Mountain' 'then' and 'they' said his Heart Grew 10 times Stronger with what
Emotions will do to increase overall Human Intelligences by leaps and bounds over paper tests. That was just a Metaphor
for there is no way to Measure the Heart of Humanity when actually Functioning and Moving Real Mountains of Love Now.

Yes; for many Folks, this entire Narration is just another
'SuperNatural' Picture of what does not exist for now as life they experience;
Sitting by an Opaque Window of Life having no clue for what they even miss.

The Good News is; this 'SuperNatural' Experience of Life is Real; and yes, with enough effort Some Folks will Make it Real.
Reality is a fragile, subjective and difficult thing. What we can't measure in quantity, we can often experience internally. You can't measure taste, for example (not as far as I'm aware, anyway) but we all know it exists because it's universal. It's the same with wind; we can't see it, but there are other ways to experience it.

Emotions are not easily explicable but we do know they exist. What's more is that we can often explain in vague terms how emotions are formed. We know of depressants and stimulants just to throw a couple ideas out there. We know that we have these sensations due to our chemical responses. Mysticism, and anything of the kind, is vastly different in this sense; there's no makeup or statistical value that we can rely on to really understand it exists. Moreso, it seems mysticism is used solely to explain that which we do not yet know but may eventually understand. It's similar to those "UFO's" that turn out to be weather balloons.

On the subject, a man was once interviewed about UFO's and was asked how they looked. He didn't necessarily say it, but people for some reason believed he had referred to them as "saucer" shaped. From this one mistake, suddenly all UFO's take this form in the eyes of those that see them. It's a classic case of mass hysteria.



Mythos
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 457
Location: England

13 Oct 2018, 6:09 am

SaveFerris wrote:
Mythos wrote:


I'd recommend watching one or two James Randi videos.


I've had a great email conversation with Mr Randi and he sent me a free signed copy of one of his books , Randi rocks
He's great. It would be pretty cool to speak to him some time.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 42,042
Location: Stendec

13 Oct 2018, 11:28 am

Mythos wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
Mythos wrote:
I'd recommend watching one or two James Randi videos.
I've had a great email conversation with Mr Randi and he sent me a free signed copy of one of his books , Randi rocks
He's great. It would be pretty cool to speak to him some time.
He's retired, being 90 years old as of last August 7. He was a guest on a TV special called "Exploring Psychic Powers... Live" -- a two-hour television special aired live on June 7, 1989, wherein Randi examined several people claiming psychic powers. Hosted by actor Bill Bixby, the program offered $100,000 (Randi's then $10,000 prize plus $90,000 put up by the show's syndicator, LBS Communications, Inc.) to anyone who could demonstrate genuine psychic powers.

• An astrologer claimed that he was able to ascertain a person's astrological sign after talking with them for a few minutes. He was presented with twelve people, one at a time, each with a different astrological sign. They could not tell the astrologer their astrological sign or birth date, nor could they wear anything that would indicate it. After the astrologer talked to them, he had them go and sit in front of the astrological sign that the astrologer thought was theirs. By agreement, the astrologer needed to get ten of the 12 correct, to win. He got none correct.

• The next psychic claimed to be able to read auras around people. He claimed that auras were visible at least five inches above each of them. He selected ten people who he said had clearly visible auras. They were to stand behind screens and he claimed that their auras would be visible above the screens, which were numbered 1 through 10, and the subjects were told by the astrologer behind which screen to stand. He was to tell whether or not a person was standing behind each screen, by seeing their aura above. Since random guessing would be expected to get about five correct, the psychic needed to get eight of the ten right. The psychic stated that he saw an aura over all ten screens, but people were behind only four of the screens.

• A dowser claimed that he could detect water, even in a bottle inside a sealed cardboard box. He was shown twenty boxes and he was asked to indicate which boxes contained a water bottle. He selected eight of the boxes, which he said contained water, but it turned out that only five of the twenty contained water. Of the eight selected boxes, only one was revealed to contain water and one contained sand. It was not revealed whether any of the remaining six boxes contained water.

• A psychometric psychic claimed to be able to receive personal information about the owner of an object by handling the object itself. In order to avoid ambiguous statements, the psychic agreed to be presented with both a watch and a key from each of twelve different people. She was to match keys and watches to each owner. According to the prior agreement, she had to match at least nine out of the twelve sets, but she succeeded in only two.

• During the program, another psychic was doing a sorting of 250 Zener cards, guessing which of the five symbols was on each one. Random guessing should have resulted in about fifty correct guesses, so it was agreed in advance that the psychic had to be right on at least eighty-two cards in order to demonstrate an ability significantly greater than chance. However, she was able to get only fifty predictions correct, which is no better than random guessing.

(Source: This Article)

So my question to the OP is "Why would anyone claim to be a psychic (mystic, sensitive, et cetera) when their results are no better than random guessing?"



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,541

13 Oct 2018, 12:06 pm

Mythos wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Mythos wrote:
Bether3 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Still waiting for proof that the immeasurable actually exists.



The immeasurable can't be measured, therefore the only proof one can get is to experience it.
If something cannot be measured, testable, repeatable, verifiable, quantified in some measure and universal in nature, it cannot be registered as true.

The issue with mysticism is that it seemingly begins with a base that is not only immeasurable and thus unverifiable, as a result there can be no agreed consensus. It exists as an entity seemingly designed to obfuscate itself so that snake oil salespeople can jump in and steal money with their charlatanism.

I'd recommend watching one or two James Randi videos.


Scientists Readily admit that Human Emotion cannot be reliably Measured, Tested, Repeated, and Quantified in a Measure
that is Universal in Nature across the Spectrum of all Human beings; yet, Scientists Readily Admit that Human Emotion is
at the core of all Human Reasons that we 'think' we do. Yes, Even though Science cannot Reliably Measure Human Emotion
in all the Colors it comes Across the Human Spectrum; or even offer Helpful Hints that reliably work on how to Regain those Emotions or Birth them that Science Shows now is core to all Human Cognitive Executive Functioning as well as
Health and Well Being too; Never the Less, Human Emotions Persist and Rule at least in Human Beings
who Enjoy a River Flow now of Consciousness Well Integrated with Subconscious Shadow
Being of Mind; per specifically, the Limbic System; and the Reptile Brain as well
as the Hippocampus too; with sure, the Cerebellum for Integrated Autonomic
Function that can and will even be Mastered in Bio-Feed back of Still
and Moving Meditation too where one controls their Heart Rate
and Blood Pressure; and even Body Temperature as Science Can and
Will and Does at least Empirically Measure that much among Yogis' and the Real Human Skills that Count they
and others continue to Master now; even if only through looking within with innate instinct and intuition now.

Such a Rational Delusion; Science Proves Most humans continue to be under who have not yet Mastered
the Limbic and Snake Brain Shadow that Science shows now that the Neo-Cortex is actually Servant to for real;

Not just my opinion; as Social Scientist Jonathan Haidt Provides Research to Suggest that as well per this Delusion.

And in Worse Case Scenarios, the Neo-Cortex is Slave to our Shadow Brains; as Addictions continue to
control the Lives of so many folks now; who have Developed no Art in Physical/Emotional Intelligences
to Regulate their Emotions and Integrate their Senses; with the Crutch of Addiction now to even survive life at all;

For it is true; they were not fully Introduced to Initiation Practices For Mastery of the Shadow Brains of their Subconscious
Mind that is the True Master of all of our Realities now; and as Long as we are currently Classically Evolved as Human.

Yet still; strangely enough some folks suggest that if the Scientific Method can't see it; it doesn't exist;
Perhaps folks who 'believe' this way are missing core parts of the Human Potential Experience as Science
Suggests that too about Scientists too; oh, so ironically so. In other Words, the old Stereotype of the
Absent Minded Professor who cannot even find His and or Her way out of a 'Basic Paper Bag' of
Life for Impoverished Emotions most definitely are in Direct Causation of Impoverished Cognitive Executive Functioning.

It's one thing to Follow, and Make a list, and Copy a list of Crystalized Intelligence but it is a different World of Intelligence
When Intelligence is Fluid in Mind and Body too; and not only Finds its way out of 'a Paper Bag' but Creates truly
Original Art
as Essence
in Form that has literally never been seen before;
And yes; that Relates to Science too for those Scientists
who have also Moved out of the Box of the Metaphor of 'Left Brain Think'.

Use it or Lose it applies to all potential Human Intelligences; and by God of Nature; i'd rather Have a fully colored
Physical/Emotional Life of Intelligences with a 70 IQ; than have an IQ assessed as off the Charts as Professionals with Degrees to do just that have suggested before; while i wasn't so Proud as to not admit that I was Literally 'Retarded' for what even counts
in
Life;
A Tin Man with a Heart.

Standard IQ and the Scientific Method has no Clue to Measure what it even means to truly be Human.

How Folks miss that is no longer Beyond what I was missing most of all before; I'm sure other folks can grow one too.

But it's true, when the 'Grinch' went up 'that Mountain' 'then' and 'they' said his Heart Grew 10 times Stronger with what
Emotions will do to increase overall Human Intelligences by leaps and bounds over paper tests. That was just a Metaphor
for there is no way to Measure the Heart of Humanity when actually Functioning and Moving Real Mountains of Love Now.

Yes; for many Folks, this entire Narration is just another
'SuperNatural' Picture of what does not exist for now as life they experience;
Sitting by an Opaque Window of Life having no clue for what they even miss.

The Good News is; this 'SuperNatural' Experience of Life is Real; and yes, with enough effort Some Folks will Make it Real.
Reality is a fragile, subjective and difficult thing. What we can't measure in quantity, we can often experience internally. You can't measure taste, for example (not as far as I'm aware, anyway) but we all know it exists because it's universal. It's the same with wind; we can't see it, but there are other ways to experience it.

Emotions are not easily explicable but we do know they exist. What's more is that we can often explain in vague terms how emotions are formed. We know of depressants and stimulants just to throw a couple ideas out there. We know that we have these sensations due to our chemical responses. Mysticism, and anything of the kind, is vastly different in this sense; there's no makeup or statistical value that we can rely on to really understand it exists. Moreso, it seems mysticism is used solely to explain that which we do not yet know but may eventually understand. It's similar to those "UFO's" that turn out to be weather balloons.

On the subject, a man was once interviewed about UFO's and was asked how they looked. He didn't necessarily say it, but people for some reason believed he had referred to them as "saucer" shaped. From this one mistake, suddenly all UFO's take this form in the eyes of those that see them. It's a classic case of mass hysteria.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYEDA3JcQqw

Smiles, I am Glad to see that you agree that Science is no Tool that will Reliably Measure the Internal Universe of Being Human that ironically speaking is all of our Reality from the Inside Out in Feeling and Sensing Life Now for Real.

There is Chaos and Order in Life; otherwise, A Metaphor of Yin and Yang for Centuries in Philosophy too.

There is ISA Instincts, Skills, and Abilities in Human Fluid Intelligence that Explores the Unknown in Metaphor of Right Brain Thinking, Feeling, and Sensing.

And

There is KSA Knowledge, Skills, And Abilities, as Spoon Fed For us in Data Download in School/Work as we are mostly
Tested for these KSA's in Standard IQ Tests while Newer Intelligence Tests; such as the Raven Matrices Test
Scores more for Fluid Intelligence as often seen as a Better Cross Cultural Test For Fluid Intelligence as
it takes much of the Cultural Bias out of the Test; but it's worth it to note that the Intelligence of
a Bushman in South Africa in Nature is not the same kind of Intelligence that one might
be Better Acquainted with where Architecture as Human Built through Collected Knowledge
And Cultural Cooperation is a reality that those Humans Separated From Nature are far Better Acquainted
with In a Life Filled with these Shapes that are Humanly Constructed away from Innate Nature in Born on Dates of Life.

I'm not one much for Fiction; as i find Reality Much Deeper in Fascination; for I have both my 'Left Brain Think'
and 'Right Brain' 'Think' with KSA's and ISA's to Explore it in Deeper than Download Data Seats of School/Work.

Interestingly, Non-Verbal Autistic Folks Like me, in Youth, in studies by Michelle Dawson are shown to Surpass
Verbal so-called Higher Functioning Autistic Folks in Measures of Fluid Intelligence much Later in Life.

While one type of Intelligence Stagnates in Verbal way in KSA's;
the other type of Fluid Intelligence in 'Right Brain Think' ISA's in Exploring Mind Flourishes
and continues to Grow across the Lifespan more. One can see this in the Non-Verbal Children
that Hans Asperger Studied as yes, before Asperger's Syndrome was made into Autism-Lite Excluding
Children of the Hyperlexic Non-Verbal Flavor of Asperger's Syndrome from the Label back in 1994 in the US; these Children Longitudinally in Study After Hans Asperger's Study with this Flavor of the Autism Spectrum Flowered-out Like Butterflies out of Cocoons in Human Potential Across the Lifespan where failures earlier in Life where not replicated in the Success Later in Life.

Can 'You' Spell Financially Independent by age 47;

Well you are spelling me; too this way; for I am an outlier on this Website for I am Diagnosed
the Way that Hans Asperger diagnosed the Children back then; with the Hyperlexic Flavor of Asperger's Syndrome
that did include a Delay in Language until age 4, like me. The Way I learned in Life was more of a Fluid Intelligence
through Innate Instinct in Intuition. In other Words, I could not tell you the Rules of Grammar but Never the Less I
Made Straight A's in English.

I couldn't tell you the rules of Music or Singing; but never the Less the way I played the Piano was described as
Enigma; and the way I sang was described and still is described as somewhat other worldly Like a Syd Barrett
Song or a Jimi Hendrix Guitar Riff that is not bound by Notes on a Sheet; and is better Felt and Sensed
to move one in Ethereal and Yes Mystical Ways of Experiencing Life Mesmerized and Enigmatic
as the Perceptive Author of this Op has already noted; and the way I write is usually Described
Around the Globe by Poets who have the kind of Intelligence Required not only to see
the way I write but also to feel and sense the way i write for that is what Art
does when Art works; it changes and expands the Emotional and Sensory
Reception of the Audience at Hand. So, While it is true it is not designed
for 8th Grade Reading Level; Neither is a Mozart Symphony or for
the 'Commoners' in the Day of Michelangelo who were horrified
and Disgusted to See Naked Human Body Parts
on top of
the
Cathedral
Ceiling then;
And who are Still
Disgusted to see that
Tiny Male Part in the 'Tween
of An Aesthetic Artistic Beauty of a David Statue sculpted for what it even means to Be Naked and Free.

Anyway, back more specifically on topic; in Daryl Bem's Research on Pre-cognition; he at least intuited that there was
something improper about the studies on Pre-Cognition that were Preventing more Accurate Research Results as he figured that Pre-Cognition if Real should Stand the Test of Time, Evolutionary Speaking, Long Before Humans Created Abstract Written Constructs; not unlike the Geometrical Shapes we make in Building Homes, so in an act of 'Pure Genius'
that most folks without ISA's would not even 'think' of, he used Erotic Images to Awaken the Shadow Brain more at core
of what it means for Reproductive Success in our Oldest Evolutionary Reptile Brain that of course as we know now
in Science in the Study of Porn Greatly Increases the levels of Dopamine in the Brain; for many folks
almost like 'Crack' Cocaine if given in Copious amounts to Alter States of Consciousness as
Neuro-Chemicals and Neuro-Hormones Naturally Change now with the Environmental Stimulus
at Hand whether in Pill form or Behavioral Act As such with Feelings and Senses Ramped up in tandem
with the Interactions and Connections within all Naturally as such too. The Occultist Aleister Crowley
Named this 'Sex Magic'; now Science understands it as the Balance of Lust and Love that is core to most
all Human Creativity, Social Cooperation, and overall Productivity too. Yes; it Stands to Reason as all Feel and Sense
Good Neuro-Chemicals and Neuro-Hormones, including the Social Bonding Neuro-Hormone Oxytocin are all ramped
up where People work together better and increase Creativity, Productivity, and Social Cooperation as a Standard of
Life when the Village however Large or Small is working In Peace and Harmony and Fun; including the 'Work of the Night'
Freely then and now too.

Science Shows that when the Neo-Cortex is used for Systemizing Science Reason, as I've noted before on this Topic
of Mysticism, represses the more Social Empathic Artistic and yes Intuiting Fluid Intelligence part of Mind as 'Right
Brain' Metaphor of Think that many folks use that is rather Misnomer as Both Sides of the Brain are involved
in all Processes of Living in Synergy if a Healthy Brain is Functioning; but anyway, it's a Metaphor that many
Folks understand and still note as Systemizing Science Reason in Verbal Think as 'Left Brain' Intelligence too.

Fact is that whatever is real about Mysticism is mostly this 'Right Brain Metaphor' of Think;

Fact is that when one Brings the Element of Systemizing Science that is precisely what Scientific Research
Does; whatever Propensity of Mysticism including the Potential of Pre-Cognition Literally Leaves the "Room
of the Brain" as Science Shows now Systemizing Science in Reason of Mechanical Cognition does repress this
other Human Potential in 'Right Brain' Intelligences far beyond so-called normal KSA's away from the Realm of ISA's.

In Bem's Research, using Erotic Pictures; he found a 53% Correlation over 50% in Study of Pre-Cognition;
This is Significant but not really Substantial and Earth Breaking; but back close to 2010; it was enough to Garner
the Attention of the Science of Psychology and Ironically it made the Science of that so uncomfortable for that
Significant Correlation of the Study of Pre-Cognition that the Science of the Study of what is Psychology
and Sociology admitted it was somewhat broken itself to Falsify the Study, overall as a Science back then.

Meanwhile, Common Sense and Feel Rules for those without enough Common Sense and Feel without any of
this Empirical Evidence is that the Mystical Aspect of Life is Art and Spontaneous and no Science Project that
can be pre-planned or Studied Empirically to reveal the Mechanics of the Process that Flows like a River
that cannot be Empirically Measured as of course that's just a Metaphor for an Actual River can
and will be Empirically Measured but what I am getting to here is Flow; yes that Flow in Zone;
where Mechanical Cognition and the Neo-Cortex is Dampened and Brain Waves Move more
in Alpha to Theta Range of Consciousness where Time if Viewed more as an Illusion as
the Neo-Cortex Constructs time to be in Construct of Memory in Past and
Projecting A Future based on that Memory too in Reason Words of Think.
Science now names this "Hypo-Transient Frontality", where Measures
of Creativity increase 400 to 500 Percent; as this may Be Achieved by a practice
of whatever Art is continuous and always moving toward Complexity in a Harmonious
way away from Flight or Fight State of Being as that only Exhausts Human Potential. And those
who Master this ability come to a State of 'Autotelic' Being where through Bio-Feed Back and Relative
Free Will they Generate Good Feeling Endorphins and Oxytocin and Serotonin and Dopamine and Perhaps
even the more Esoteric hard to Measure DMT that External Substance Drugs attempt to Replicate too;

Here's the thing my Friend; this is Mystical and Measured by Science good enough it is even Better than
Pre-Cognition for it is the Scientific Measure of Bliss and Nirvana and the Kingdom of Heaven Within that
Yogis' and Tibetan Monks have Been Mastering for Many Centuries Before the Scientific Method was even in
the Dream of the Golden Age of Islam.

So yes, Science has finally caught up to 'Jesus the Story'; and whoever were the Ghost Writers who used Famous
Pen Names Like Mark, and Luke, and Matthew, and John then Writing Artistically in doing their Best in Poetry to
Relate an "Autotelic" Experience of the "Kingdom of Heaven" in "Transient Hypo-Frontality" Ways that is practiced
in Art to Staycation now at Relative Free Will as Masters as the Sages of the Ages that and who do still exist
as in an Act/Art of Life that is Better than any Fiction or Religious/Science Book that most Folks Ever Read
without the
Essence
of what
the F in Reality
Sages are even
Speaking of in the Deep ISA's
of Life away from Shallow KSA's
in Verbal Speak of Neo-Cortical Mind.

Does Pre-Cognition Exist; Hell yes, Heaven it does for those
who experience it with Computer-Like Minds who understand
the Chances it does or does not; particularly, when one is in a State
of Mindful and Body Full Awareness out of time, space, and distance
as Neo-Cortical Illusion; where Dream-Time is more like Reality before
Humans became both KSA Tools Incarnate and Stuck in Words as Tools so lost from Essence and
other Empty Buildings Boxes of Life now too away from Incarnate Love; with little Soul for when
'You' come to A place that I Freely enter and Stay with a Life Time of Effort to get here Now 'You'
understand Better More completely what A Soul Whole is no longer Separated from Nature Now
in the Sense and Feel of God Nature as a Fluid Intelligence of ISA's that is no longer in a Prison
of Empty Shells of
Words and other
Symbols
so Far
Away and
Separated from this
Much Higher Potential of Nature/God as US
that even Science Evidences now in Brain Scans
to Be as Real as the Nose on 'Your' Face whether it has
Tasted the Honey Do of Milk and Honey of a Real Xanadu or not.
Hmm; I think the Great Band Rush and an Older Poem of Art relates to this reality of life too
in a Song
so lost
so lost
so lost


from Purview of
so-called Most Modern
Civilized Human Beings so

lost so lost
in Nature Deficit
Disorder NDD from the
Dream-Time of Life where
Clock Time is no Different than
the Illusion of Empty Symbols as
Shells without the Living Ocean Whole of God Nature within
that needs no words at all but be just the Will of Heaven now.

Yes, my Friend, so-called Christian Fundamentalists and Muslim's
Lost From Esoteric Roots in Mystic Spinning Trance Dance of Sufi Dervishes too;

Do not have
a clue of what
it even means to Be; Yes Feel and Sense
Human and God as Nature Now too; Free and Whole allone never separated alone;

So much more than the Symbols of a Poem alone or even a Place Vaulted to a Name like Xanadu for Real.

But hey; if you don't get Poetry; you can always research the Words "Autotelic" online and
"Transient Hypo-Frontality" and even view the Results of the Brain Scans too; for it is also true
Even 'Dark Web' so-called 'Geniuses' like Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson; one renowned Atheist
and one Closet
Christian now
Respectively
Agree
With just about
everything I am speaking
of here my Friend as Jordan Peterson
Gets it when he says he Behaves as God Exists
and Sam Harris does it whether or not he believes
in Syntax or not; for the Semantics is when he Meditates
he touches
the Face
of God
as Nature
in Peace and
Harmony within where the Feelings
and Senses of oneness are dam sure more real than most folks Neo-Cortical
Worry Being State of Misery Loves Suffering Nation of Mind in Opiate Addictions flourishing too
to replace
this
"Kiss of Jesus"
that is the realest
Experience of God and
Nature in Human one in same and different too.

Smiles; the reality here my friend is, I do not expect to convince anyone;
either Atheist or Christian or Muslim; as Buddhists already get it that Heaven
is Real and a Force of Existence within now real. This is just an Art that I do
to Travel
even Deeper
into Human Soul
that exists as me.
For that's one thing
no one escapes either
empty or filled in this Nature of Life now.
Those who do not Pursue Heaven and make it Real
now are the most 'foolish' of all whether Atheist, Christian, or Muslim now.

Sam Harris is already leaps and bounds above most Christians and Muslims now.

And for those Atheists who Follow Him and Enter Heaven; more Heaven to 'em and whatever they name as God
as
me
as you too Behaving as Life is Really Good God LoVE NoW.

Myths and the Deeper Poetries and Parables
of Sacred Texts and Religions are just the Housings;
the Vehicles and Vessels that Hold "Hidden Mystical Truths"
in Essence that are really not Hidden at all for those who have already Awoken
Out of the Cave into the Eden of Heaven now in Light so far out of Dark; for it's true
in many
Cases
until one actually
Feels and Senses Heaven
now within none of those Hidden
Meanings come Revealed without the Context
of the Feelings and Senses of Heaven that are Real as Real Gets now.

Out of the Shadows
Out of the Shallows
Rolling
into the
Light into the Deep;

And that changes A
Theme Song more Contemporary than Rush and Xanadu now.

Smiles, at a Dance Hall Full of Young Folks on Thursday Night in my 232nd Week Night of
Doing that in a Practice of Free Verse Martial Arts Mixed with Ballet-Like Flow-in-Zone
Trance Dance continuing to Achieve what i do in Heaven Within with Free verse Poetry too;
I spent a considerable portion of my Trance in Ascending and Transcending way with a Young
Woman there attempting to convince her that I had no 'Molly' to Give to her at all and in Fact; I don't Drink;
not even a Caffeinated Drink; and I Dam sure don't smoke anything or put Illegal Substances into my Mouth.
Convincing her that Heaven is Real
now within was no easier than those without
the Context who are either Atheist/Fundamentalist,
Christian or Muslim now; But take a Sufi-Muslim now;
A Spinning Dervish; and or the Same who Writes Erotic
Poetry in Holy and Sacred Way Full of Meaning and Purpose
or even Reading Several Poems from Rumi; and it is more than evident they have already found THE (A) PLACE.

According to 'Fowler' and 'Maslow' and their Pyramids of Faith and Self Actualization and Ascending Transcending
Agape Love for all in Action; it's not uncommon for folks to Work Hard to Seek and Find this and it to take 'till Mid-Life
or So for it to actually come to Fruition in Action; Yes, it takes one step and or word of Deeper Essence and Meaning
of Real Agape Love in many Baby Steps and or Words to get tHere now. Thing is; Science is finally Catching up; and that's Good News for folks who
have
other
wise
Closed Minds
And Bodies toward Much
Greater Human Potentials;
And to be clear I have no idea if you
Are already tHere; for the Human Language is rather Antiquated Still to express Heaven now as Shell of Essence.

Anyway; thanks for the Civil Conversation; it is refreshing here; for I will tell you one thing that is completely True;
Without Empathy and Love tHere is no God for all Practical, Intents, and Purposes; No Mysticism And No Real Magic in Life as Light; no matter Syntax, Semantics;
Particle and or Wave
Until
Field
of
Human in Dreams
Comes Full of LoVE NoW ReaL.

https://slate.com/health-and-science/20 ... roken.html


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


SaveFerris
Banned
Banned

User avatar

Joined: 3 Sep 2016
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,690
Location: UK

13 Oct 2018, 12:25 pm

Mythos wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
Mythos wrote:


I'd recommend watching one or two James Randi videos.


I've had a great email conversation with Mr Randi and he sent me a free signed copy of one of his books , Randi rocks
He's great. It would be pretty cool to speak to him some time.


In theory I agree but I'd prefer to hide behind a screen , we talked about a chess playing 'automaton' named The Turk , it beat Napoleon and Benjamin Franklin in a game of chess.

Image


_________________
R Tape loading error, 0:1

Hypocrisy is the greatest luxury. Raise the double standard