Scientific Truth VS Religious Truth - Dr Jordan Peterson on

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techstepgenr8tion
SomeRandomGuy
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07 Nov 2018, 7:11 am

The list of human priorities, outside of staying alive, is pretty fungible and takes a lot of shape from what avenues with which it can open doors as well as even how much of a crap sandwich life might be feeding you and how much you may need to dig your fingernails in to prevent your own suicide or moral derangement in other cases. What is true is that those inclined to experimentation, as similar to those who are likely to take up mystic or occult practices, are usually people who society broke its contracts with and they're forced to find other means to cope with life.

I think the part that you aren't likely to register, no matter how much we talk, is the degree of upside that there is on psychedelics. I could honestly say that I'd be wedged much deeper under my autism, doing much worse with respect to being able to get over the ASD related issues, would be closer to half my age in maturity (no matter with how much discipline I beat myself with to be otherwise), and I wouldn't have figured out half the things I had - let alone I probably would have been just about murdered by NT's by now (any difference = baby rapist) - if I hadn't taken the path I have.

I see our culture actually failing harder for lack of perspective than due to drug use. If you get to run in the center of the pack with full protection rather than penalty from the power of Conformitas (conformity deified) you can be a near perfect ape your entire life and never have to know what cost the rest of humanity has to pay for so many people being in such a fast asleep and accordingly 'thin veneer of human' sort of state. We can't solve problems because not enough people can properly self-examine credibly enough to have any hope of breaking the implicit belief that whatever they believe is good and whatever the next person believes is evil. The IDW might be something close to a non-psychedelic antidote as well, and we need more of it, but I have to go with Jordan Peterson, Bret Weinstein, and Sam Harris on the psychedelics and I have to say a lot of the same core argument I'd make - that 'narcotics' is an absolutely terrible category with respect to being a container for substances that have no place being considered in the same space, this is one that Sam also makes quite often.

I also had scenarios thrown at me throughout this conversation that might have made sense if I'd said 'You know, I condone the use of bath salts' or suggested that heroin and meth should be sold at every convenient store. Heroin and meth are in a category where there's no confusion over what they do to people. Legalization of things like marijuana and psilocybin, maybe eventually in some contexts LSD, would compete against other hard drugs. I don't want to project but you seemed to imply that once one smokes their first joint they're a slip on a banana peel away from overdosing on heroin and that any 'narcotic' use is a race to the bottom. The world is filled with academic, medical, and other high-level conversations right now that couldn't exist if that were the case.


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techstepgenr8tion
SomeRandomGuy
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07 Nov 2018, 7:34 am

Also on the topic of authors, whether reading their books or just seeing what they have to say, Michael Pollan wrote an interesting book 'How to Change Your Mind: What the New Science of Psychedelics Teaches Us About Consciousness, Dying, Addiction, Depression, and Transcendence'. A lot of important and equally interrelated themes in that.


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Pepe
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07 Nov 2018, 4:35 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Also on the topic of authors, whether reading their books or just seeing what they have to say, Michael Pollan wrote an interesting book 'How to Change Your Mind: What the New Science of Psychedelics Teaches Us About Consciousness, Dying, Addiction, Depression, and Transcendence'. A lot of important and equally interrelated themes in that.


Interesting but... :mrgreen:
I am sure you will agree that experimentation with psychedelics is not suited for everyone...

For example, someone like me, who had a severe dissociative disorder in my younger years, is someone who may have lost their way due to their "lessened sense of reality" to begin with...

With my being ontologically-secure these days, things may be different and there might be an argument that mind altering drugs could further broaden my weltanschauung...

But hey...
Why mess around with perfection, eh?... 8)


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I'm a thinker. Some think I'm a stinker. Pepe le Pew. ;)
Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


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07 Nov 2018, 6:23 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRZnw6GPe8o

i Remember When i first Lost Shangri-La; An Afternoon Sun it Was
On A Warm January Day in 2008; As Beauty Grew Empty As A Pet of
A Cat No longer Felt Warm As Suddenly the Warmth of a January Day in 2008
Went Cold; Sure, Human Depression; It's A Thing; Dark And Numb and Painful too;
So What Would/WiLL one Do to Escape Numb; For What of Those Folks Who Have Never 'Seen'
'Allone'; A Comfort
And Beauty
Of Shangri-La
Also Felt, Sensed;
Never Vague When
Real; Yes, Utopia Within.
Hmm; iN those Days, those Nights,
Those Months; Those Years; Yes, 66 Months
As Shut-in in my Bedroom; All oF LiFE iN SHades
Of BLack And White; Colors and Flavors of Life Lost
From Within; Where to Go And Find Shangri-La Again;
Only In Dreams Vague Still to Come A Statuesque Home
Hidden Floors Above Post Modern More With Pools of Beauty
And A Hidden Trail To A Creek Where All Existed As Bliss iN A Beauty
of Life Wise Beyond Words; Yes, I Rose Out oF Those Ashes to Shangri-La
Within; And If one has Never Experienced a 'Perfection' in any one Moment of
Life; Where There Is No Forward or Reverse But Now That Is Never Better or Worse Than
Now;
Sure, IT's
Safe to Say Many
Folks Are Missing out
On This KingQueenDoM
Of Heaven Within Eternally
Now Never Ending Now Just A Feeling
And Sense of Life It Is With No Gravity; Yes,
And Connection to All That Is In Oneness Now
That Never Ends. True; Hard to Put in Empirical
Measure; But Science Will Measure This 'Autotelic'
'Transient-Hypo-Frontality' Way of Being Through
Brain Scan Ways 'These Days'; Through Neurochemicals
And Neurohormones And Brain Waves too; But Those Material
Reductionist PArts of Life Will Never Equal the Total Frequencies
And Vibrations as Synergies in Energies of Life Rising Higher in Mindful And
Body-Full Awareness; That Is Perfect In Practice oF an Ever Changing Now Always
More Never Less as Better Now; As Now is as Good as Now Gets Now. It's No Wonder
That 'Those' 'Greater
Mortals' With All Their
Modes of External Goals
Seek a Way Through External
Substances to Be Set Free; However,
to Master this State of Being; This Utopia
Within of Shangri-La IS A Top oF A Mountain;
A Top Of A Pyramid Capstone Set Free iN Wisdom
Is Beauty oF aLL Seeing Eyes And Ears Set Free Just to Be NoW;

"Life is Good"; Hehe, iN mY 'BackYard' at Least..;)

"Shangri-La has become synonymous with any earthly paradise, particularly a mythical Himalayan utopia – a permanently happy land, isolated from the world. In 'the novel', the people who live at Shangri-La are almost immortal, living hundreds of years beyond the normal lifespan and only very slowly aging in appearance. The name also evokes the imagery of the exoticism of the Orient."

The United States as Set Up As Democracy Does Still Provide
For All the Avenues for "Shangri-La" to Be Real in the Human
Experience NoW iN A Pursuit of Happiness; It Is A Within noW
PArt of "Shangri-La"; And An Only Part of "Shangri-La" that is
Real iN A Naked Flesh and Blood of Being Human; No Matter Time,
Distance, or Space; "Shangri-La" Is An 'OZ' Within That Is Verily Surely Eternally Now Heaven.

And Yeah; I read "How to Change Your Mind: What the New Science of Psychedelics Teaches Us About Consciousness, Dying, Addiction, Depression, and Transcendence" by Michael Pollan in Barnes and Nobles in an Ecstatic Slower Free
Dance iN Ascending Transcending Way With Meditative Music In Flow There as i Finished the Book in one Dance
All For Free. It's Like an Ultimate High; Dancing And Reading and Listening to Meditative Music Always Now
Then and Now Again Always Again Now Never Ending Now; SMiLes, For Those Who Haven't Gone 'THeRE'
Yet', NoW; It's Worth a Try; one Step Spiraling After Another one Word Spiraling After Another
Soul
Spiraling
as Just Another
Milky Way Within
Another Universe
As Just Another Center
All oF All That Is Now Real
As Real As Real Will Continue to Come to Be More
As Less As More Now Always More As Less More JusT NoW MoRE.
I Liked "The Book" to See How Other Folks Get 'Here' Less And More Than "AFreeDaNCENoW"..:)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shangri-La


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techstepgenr8tion
SomeRandomGuy
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07 Nov 2018, 9:28 pm

Pepe wrote:
Interesting but... :mrgreen:
I am sure you will agree that experimentation with psychedelics is not suited for everyone...

For example, someone like me, who had a severe dissociative disorder in my younger years, is someone who may have lost their way due to their "lessened sense of reality" to begin with...

With my being ontologically-secure these days, things may be different and there might be an argument that mind altering drugs could further broaden my weltanschauung...

But hey...
Why mess around with perfection, eh?... 8)

I'd qualify my recommendations here by saying I'm comfortable with a wide range of outcomes, but even at the most conservative I'd really like there to be some sort of organized and culturally 'made-appropriate' context for adults, especially those with spiritual and depth psychology curiosities, to have a good weekend together in a peaceful environment and engaged in positive/mindful activities while they partake in a psychedelic experience together. Slightly more liberal would be my CCW-like licensing and matched added rights / added responsibility to where such a selective legalization would at least buffer things and keep it from going to the corners of the public that it shouldn't reach.


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"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privelege of owning yourself" - Rudyard Kipling