Trumpster arrested as the MAGAbomber

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Kraichgauer
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29 Oct 2018, 5:12 am

sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I do no such thing. My wife and I are so poor we don't have a pot to piss in. Reread my post and you'll see I put the blame on business elites, not poor and working people.
As for your other post: Obama was hardly the first President to pay farmers not to bring their crops to market.


Saying no Americans would work farming jobs is calling them lazy and untrue
Tons of Americans work farming jobs here for 15-17 an hour, whole lot better then being homeless and unpaid.

So it’s ok he does it cause others did too? How do you expect anything to change if it’s ok to be bad if others were bad, what would your mom told you if you said but mom they did it too?


There's farm work, then there's working in the fields for long, strenuous hours with little payment. It's not a matter of Americans being lazy. But if Americans want to do that sort of work (Jack Kerouac had), they'll find themselves literally working for slave wages.


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LoveNotHate
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29 Oct 2018, 5:31 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
There's farm work, then there's working in the fields for long, strenuous hours with little payment. It's not a matter of Americans being lazy. But if Americans want to do that sort of work (Jack Kerouac had), they'll find themselves literally working for slave wages.

Wow, you're sounding like a Republican now.

We need illegal aliens, because who will pick the lettuce, argued George Bush's Homeland Security Secretary Chertoff.

Americans won't work for such low pay.

Image


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EzraS
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29 Oct 2018, 6:44 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
There's farm work, then there's working in the fields for long, strenuous hours with little payment. It's not a matter of Americans being lazy. But if Americans want to do that sort of work (Jack Kerouac had), they'll find themselves literally working for slave wages.

Wow, you're sounding like a Republican now.

We need illegal aliens, because who will pick the lettuce, argued George Bush's Homeland Security Secretary Chertoff.

Americans won't work for such low pay.

Image


Looks like the roles have reversed in comparison to Bush and Ciinton.



kraftiekortie
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29 Oct 2018, 9:51 am

I wish people would put themselves in the shoes of the migrants from Central America. Look at things from THEIR viewpoint.

Many people who started off being "illegal aliens" became legal, and put their kids through college. They paid their share of taxes. They WANTED to pay taxes. I know quite a few families like this.



EzraS
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29 Oct 2018, 10:15 am

Maybe I'm putting myself in the shoes of hundreds of thousands of americans living in tents.



kraftiekortie
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29 Oct 2018, 10:49 am

The question is: How did some of them wind up in those tents?

For some, it was beyond their control; for others, though----it was in their control; it could have been avoided.

I believe we should all give people a fair shake. Look at the history of all those people.

Immigration is really a tough issue. The side which seeks to limit immigration has good points. We have to monitor who comes into our country.

But most of the immigrants themselves have good points, too. They want a better life for their families, usually. Most of these people are people like us----just seeking a fair shake.

Really, both sides have good points.



EzraS
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29 Oct 2018, 11:06 am

I was told in Seattle for a log time the main homeless population dwelt in a specific area under I-5. Now there's tents everywhere. It's an exponential increase that seems to match the exponential lack of affordable housing. And it exists in many places throughout our country. Not that I'm unsympathetic to immigrants. But there is another side to the needful and how much America seems to be failing to look after its own.



kraftiekortie
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29 Oct 2018, 11:13 am

I don’t disagree with that.



Fnord
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29 Oct 2018, 11:19 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
The question is: How did some of them wind up in those tents?
According to the most recent annual survey by the U.S. Conference of Mayors, major cities across the country report that top causes of homelessness among families were...

#1. lack of affordable housing
#2. unemployment
#3. poverty
#4. low wages

... in that order. The same report found that the top four causes of homelessness among unaccompanied individuals were...

#1. lack of affordable housing
#2. unemployment
#3. poverty
#4. mental illness and the lack of needed services
#5. substance abuse and the lack of needed services.

Source: This Fact Sheet from the National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty.



kraftiekortie
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29 Oct 2018, 11:27 am

I do understand that viewpoint that we have to "take care of our own." That makes lots of sense. There's no argument against that from me.

But to demonize immigrants as "criminals"---when all they want is a fair shake--is dead wrong, in my opinion.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 29 Oct 2018, 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

EzraS
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29 Oct 2018, 11:28 am

My concern is those who would not be homeless if this was 5-10 years ago. There's lots of employed homeless people now. And still more who are renting out garages, sheds and such to live in. Bringing in thousands more impoverished people just doesn't sound like a good idea right now.



Fnord
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29 Oct 2018, 11:29 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
... to demonize immigrants as "criminals" who just want a fair shake is dead wrong, in my opinion.
People who arrive here illegally are breaking the law. Those who break the law are criminals. Ergo...



EzraS
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29 Oct 2018, 11:36 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I do understand that viewpoint that we have to "take care of our own." That makes lots of sense. There's no argument against that from me.

But to demonize immigrants as "criminals" who just want a fair shake is dead wrong, in my opinion.


Funny thing is Bill Clinton referred to them as "criminal immigrants" back in the 90's. Illegal and criminal are fairly synonymous. I do know places where parts of my family lived in California in the 60's-80's like Van Nuys, Northridge, Chatsworth, Panorama City etc have been severely overrun and are full of crime.



kraftiekortie
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29 Oct 2018, 11:39 am

Neighborhoods of people who have been American citizens for generations can be overrun with crime.

Like I said, this is a complex issue---immigration. There are no easy answers. Both sides are right in many respects. One can argue persuasively for either side.

The question is: Who is the "most" right?



EzraS
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29 Oct 2018, 11:42 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Neighborhoods of people who have been American citizens for generations can be overrun with crime.

Like I said, this is a complex issue---immigration. There are no easy answers. Both sides are right in many respects. One can argue persuasively for either side.

The question is: Who is the "most" right?


I mean overrun by immigrants and since become high crime zones. I remember one the last times I was in California a cousin wanted to go into Northridge drive past the house he grew up in, and his wife was terrified by the idea. And Northridge used to be a nice peaceful LA suburb.

I think it was Northridge. I get those interconnecting suburbs in the SF Valley confused. But a lot of them have gone to hell in a handbasket.