Joined: 26 Aug 2010 Age: 69 Gender: Male Posts: 34,126 Location: temperate zone
16 Nov 2018, 4:29 pm
LoveNotHate wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
I like irrational numbers, like "square root of 2", because they make you think.
How can a number that never terminates, possibly exist in reality?
The irony is that not only do irrational numbers exist, they are majority of numbers. Its the rational numbers (integers, and fractions that have a terminus, or a repeating pattern in their digital form) that are the exceptions.
Sure, they exist in your mind, like vampires and werewolfs.
However, how can a number that never terminates represent a definite length in reality?
Get real.
ALL numbers "only exist in your mind like vampires".
What do you think most lengths are?
If you take a yardstick and just randomly hit it with an axe the axe will not likely cut the yardstick right at designated marking for a number of inches, nor right at a half inch, or a quarter inch, etc.
Most points on a yardstick are between the man made markings for the man made units of measurement on the yardstick. And they are not located at evenly divisible fractions of those manmade markings either (use your imagination and imaging you zeroing in on the yardstick down to the atomic level and beyond). Most atoms on a yardstick are at positions on the yardstick that can only be described as being at irrational number decimal units of the inches, or centimeters used on the ruler.
Joined: 12 Oct 2013 Gender: Female Posts: 6,195 Location: USA
16 Nov 2018, 8:03 pm
naturalplastic wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
I like irrational numbers, like "square root of 2", because they make you think.
How can a number that never terminates, possibly exist in reality?
The irony is that not only do irrational numbers exist, they are majority of numbers. Its the rational numbers (integers, and fractions that have a terminus, or a repeating pattern in their digital form) that are the exceptions.
Sure, they exist in your mind, like vampires and werewolfs.
However, how can a number that never terminates represent a definite length in reality?
Get real.
ALL numbers "only exist in your mind like vampires".
If you take a yardstick and just randomly hit it with an axe the axe will not likely cut the yardstick right at designated marking for a number of inches, nor right at a half inch, or a quarter inch, etc.
Most points on a yardstick are between the man made markings for the man made units of measurement on the yardstick. And they are not located at evenly divisible fractions of those manmade markings either (use your imagination and imaging you zeroing in on the yardstick down to the atomic level and beyond). Most atoms on a yardstick are at positions on the yardstick that can only be described as being at irrational number decimal units of the inches, or centimeters used on the ruler.
You're glossing over the indefiniteness of irrational numbers.
The SQR(2) never, ever ends. NEVER.
Yet, somehow that's suppose to represent some definite length in reality?
How? Search online if you must and see how math people try to explain it, a hard question, not to be dismissed so easily.
_________________ After a failure, the easiest thing to do is to blame someone else.
Joined: 26 Aug 2010 Age: 69 Gender: Male Posts: 34,126 Location: temperate zone
16 Nov 2018, 8:19 pm
you're looking at it the wrong way around.
There is no reason that nature should conform to human measurement systems, or to human counting systems just to make things easy for humans.
Imagine a line, and then imagine the infinite points on a line between zero and one. Most of the points would HAVE to be at irrational numbers. Only a minority would be a nice well behaved numbers that end with rational strings of digits because those points happened to conform to easy to use ratios between integers.
Joined: 12 Oct 2013 Gender: Female Posts: 6,195 Location: USA
16 Nov 2018, 8:25 pm
naturalplastic wrote:
you're looking at it the wrong way around.
There is no reason that nature should conform to human measurement systems, or to human counting systems just to make things easy for humans.
Imagine a line, and then imagine the infinite points on a line between zero and one. Most of the points would HAVE to be at irrational numbers. Only a minority would be a nice well behaved numbers that end with rational strings of digits because those points happened to conform to easy to use ratios between integers.
Ok.
However, irrational numbers don't seem like points, since they never terminate.
How can a never terminating number be a "point"?
_________________ After a failure, the easiest thing to do is to blame someone else.
Joined: 27 Nov 2017 Gender: Male Posts: 3,657 Location: amid the sunlight and the dust and the wind
16 Nov 2018, 10:50 pm
LoveNotHate wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
you're looking at it the wrong way around.
There is no reason that nature should conform to human measurement systems, or to human counting systems just to make things easy for humans.
Imagine a line, and then imagine the infinite points on a line between zero and one. Most of the points would HAVE to be at irrational numbers. Only a minority would be a nice well behaved numbers that end with rational strings of digits because those points happened to conform to easy to use ratios between integers.
Ok.
However, irrational numbers don't seem like points, since they never terminate.
How can a never terminating number be a "point"?
It's still a point. You just can't calculate the precise location of the point on the number line.
Joined: 12 Oct 2013 Gender: Female Posts: 6,195 Location: USA
20 Nov 2018, 4:08 am
kokopelli wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
you're looking at it the wrong way around.
There is no reason that nature should conform to human measurement systems, or to human counting systems just to make things easy for humans.
Imagine a line, and then imagine the infinite points on a line between zero and one. Most of the points would HAVE to be at irrational numbers. Only a minority would be a nice well behaved numbers that end with rational strings of digits because those points happened to conform to easy to use ratios between integers.
Ok.
However, irrational numbers don't seem like points, since they never terminate.
How can a never terminating number be a "point"?
It's still a point. You just can't calculate the precise location of the point on the number line.
Ok. I can imagine that mentally.
However, is your position that this incalculable number point exists in reality?
_________________ After a failure, the easiest thing to do is to blame someone else.
Joined: 27 Nov 2017 Gender: Male Posts: 3,657 Location: amid the sunlight and the dust and the wind
21 Nov 2018, 2:41 pm
LoveNotHate wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
you're looking at it the wrong way around.
There is no reason that nature should conform to human measurement systems, or to human counting systems just to make things easy for humans.
Imagine a line, and then imagine the infinite points on a line between zero and one. Most of the points would HAVE to be at irrational numbers. Only a minority would be a nice well behaved numbers that end with rational strings of digits because those points happened to conform to easy to use ratios between integers.
Ok.
However, irrational numbers don't seem like points, since they never terminate.
How can a never terminating number be a "point"?
It's still a point. You just can't calculate the precise location of the point on the number line.
Ok. I can imagine that mentally.
However, is your position that this incalculable number point exists in reality?
It exists in the same manner as any other number. That is, it exists as a logical concept. There is no physical object that you can point to and say, "this is the number one".
Joined: 31 Dec 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 12,183 Location: A swiftly tilting planet
24 Nov 2018, 10:54 pm
12
_________________ "Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds." -Georges Lemaitre "I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface" -Gem Tos
Joined: 24 Nov 2018 Age: 45 Gender: Female Posts: 911 Location: At home, calling the Ghostbusters
26 Nov 2018, 1:39 am
My favorites are 13, 58, and 65.
_________________ "When a man lies, he murders some part of the world. These are the pale deaths which men miscall their lives. All this I cannot bear to witness any longer. Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home?"
Joined: 12 Oct 2013 Gender: Female Posts: 6,195 Location: USA
28 Nov 2018, 3:47 pm
kokopelli wrote:
It exists in the same manner as any other number. That is, it exists as a logical concept. There is no physical object that you can point to and say, "this is the number one".
The debate was whether irrational numbers like SQR(2) correctly represent a definite lengths in reality?
In other words, can an indefinite (irrational) number represent a definite length in reality?
_________________ After a failure, the easiest thing to do is to blame someone else.
Joined: 31 Dec 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 12,183 Location: A swiftly tilting planet
29 Nov 2018, 10:58 pm
Only as far as it can be measured.
_________________ "Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds." -Georges Lemaitre "I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface" -Gem Tos