Trump plans concentration camps for caravan migrants
02 Nov 2018, 3:53 am
B19 wrote:
I would have thought that the USA is a much richer country than New Zealand is, and in fact it is. Money doesn't explain the discrimination which the USA practices and politicises.
Is New Zealand 18+trillion in debt and about to end or decrease their social security due to it running out of money and running a deficit?
Cause the USA is, our economy could collapse at any time if our debt is called on and that day is coming eventually, can’t just keep adding debt. We’ve kicked the cab down the road so many times. Every 3-6 months we face a government shut down.
So no we aren’t richer.
Again we have a lot of poor people as is and a lot of homeless on top of that we have people starving to death and freezing to death
We are not in any shape to take on more.
You make 81 billion a year and have 83 billion debt if you didn’t do anything else you could pay your debt in a year it’d take us like 10-15 years to pay ours off. We have even worse civilian debt.
Can I come to New Zealand? Bet your government would send me packing. Canada would send me packing since I don’t make enough as I make nothing seems Canada doesn’t want to add drain to their nation why should a Crippled USA do it?
You have nothing to losfrkm this I do. If this happens and the USA collapses into anarchy you won’t be hurt or care. You’ll be safe in nz
Last edited by sly279 on 02 Nov 2018, 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
02 Nov 2018, 4:05 am
EzraS wrote:
B19 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
The example you gave of Cambodian refugees was a one time deal. People pouring over the boarder illegally into America has been an increasing chronic problem for decades. Theory of mind is also needed to understand why Americans are fed up with it. I mean if NZ had already had a decades long problem of a significant number of Cambodians illegally entering and residing there, would that refugee influx have been as welcome? Now I personally am not affected by any of it, so I don't mind it. But I understand why others do. And with 450,000,000 people living in Central and South America, one has to wonder how many more caravans there might be and how much subsequently larger would they be. With 12,500,000 illegal residents on top of that. Is there no point in which a line should be drawn?
You are thoroughly incorrect in your surmise that the Camboidans were a "one time deal". New Zealand has been doing this for decades, it paid for Polish orphans in large number to come here and become citizens after the Second World War when no other country would help them (they wandered homeless in Europe in the Middle East for a long time after they were liberated from Russian camps at the end of the war, so desperate that they were reduced to eating grass in the Middle East, until the Shah of Iran took pity on them and housed them in one of his palaces until a country stepped up to offer them a permanent home) and there have been many many similar refugees and desperate people seeking political asylum since in every decade - including young dispossessed Afghanistans left helpless and homeless after the Americans and Russians made the plight of parentless young people there worse.
We are now negotiating to take the pitiful people kept prisoners without any human rights that Australia is imprisoning (illegally) on Nauru whose suffering is horrendous. New Zealand is not a heartless country, it never has been and I hope it never will be. We honour international law, unlike some of our official allies.
We also give political asylum to persecuted and desperate people from what your President so uncouthly labelled "s**thole countries" like Somalia, and Muslim countries which discriminate against the human rights of (for example) gay men who face terrible victimisation from their governments. My city has a vibrant resettled population of Middle Eastern refugees none of whom have ever committed acts of terrorism against New Zealand after resettlement. We provide extensive support free of charge during their acclimisation period for months after arrival. It may shock many in the USA to consider that we have only once been the victim of a terrorist attack from a foreign power - the French Government launched a terrorist attack in the major New Zealand port in the 1980s, bombing a ship and killing an innocent photographer who was on board the ship (the bombing of the Rainbow Warrior). (France objected to New Zealand's firm objection to France, the USA and Britain detonating nuclear bombs in the Pacific which all 3 countries did recklessly and often until relatively recently).
The difference between New Zealand humanitarian support and the USA's hostility to political refugees may partially be explained by differences in cultural values. The preeminent value in New Zealand is the ethos of a "fair go" for all people, regardless of race, religion or country of origin; the preeminent value in the USA is rabid individualism, where getting as much as you can get for your own exclusive benefit is paramount.
At least the USA has developed sufficient conscience to have stopped detonating nuclear bombs in the Pacific, causing grievous injury to the people who lived on Bikini atoll and other parts of the Pacific.
Certainly the USA has suffered grievous terrorist attacks, which other countries have not had the misfortune to endure. It rarely seems ponder in any depth as to why this might be so, though the rest of the world is not mystified by that disparity.
America has 37,000,000 legal immigrants, 85,000 refugees and 550,000 American citizens living in tents.
As for the 12,500,000 illegal immigrants:
Obama agreed too
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4656370/ ... mmigration
We need a stronger border he said. Illegal immigrants harm the poor class and decreas wages he said.
02 Nov 2018, 4:07 am
EzraS wrote:
B19 wrote:
What percentage of the total population is the 85,000 refugees (who I assume are now citizens)?
I'm not saying that's too many. I'm just saying America takes in a lot as opposed to being completely heartless.
Unless we take in billions and become like Africa we are heartless
02 Nov 2018, 4:07 am
sly279 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
America has 37,000,000 legal immigrants, 85,000 refugees and 550,000 American citizens living in tents.
As for the 12,500,000 illegal immigrants:
Obama agreed too
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4656370/ ... mmigration
We need a stronger border he said. Illegal immigrants harm the poor class and decreas wages he said.
Heartless rich bastards.
02 Nov 2018, 4:27 am
It's only bad to be heartless if you're non-progressive. Remember how the anti-war peaceniks suddenly fell nearly silent after Bush left office and Obama came in BUT we were still in Iraq and Afghanistan and would continue to be? I do. Personally, I've long since given up caring what they think, not that I've ever lost sleep over it. Also keep in mind that they hate America and anything that brings about our downfall can't come too soon.
_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson
Tollorin
Veteran
Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,178
Location: Sherbrooke, Québec, Canada
02 Nov 2018, 4:43 am
sly279 wrote:
B19 wrote:
I would have thought that the USA is a much richer country than New Zealand is, and in fact it is. Money doesn't explain the discrimination which the USA practices and politicises.
Is New Zealand 18+trillion in debt and about to end or decrease their social security due to it running out of money and running a deficit?
Cause the USA is, our economy could collapse at any time if our debt is called on and that day is coming eventually, can’t just keep adding debt. We’ve kicked the cab down the road so many times. Every 3-6 months we face a government shut down.
So no we aren’t richer.
Again we have a lot of poor people as is and a lot of homeless on top of that we have people starving to death and freezing to death
We are not in any shape to take on more.
You make 81 billion a year and have 83 billion debt if you didn’t do anything else you could pay your debt in a year it’d take us like 10-15 years to pay ours off. We have even worse civilian debt.
Can I come to New Zealand? Bet your government would send me packing. Canada would send me packing since I don’t make enough as I make nothing seems Canada doesn’t want to add drain to their nation why should a Crippled USA do it?
You have nothing to losfrkm this I do. If this happens and the USA collapses into anarchy you won’t be hurt or care. You’ll be safe in nz
Trump has greatly raised the debt these past few years; gotta pay for the tax cuts to the rich and the rising of army budget, somehow.
_________________
Down with speculators!! !
Last edited by Tollorin on 02 Nov 2018, 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
02 Nov 2018, 4:53 am
sly279 wrote:
Can I come to New Zealand? Bet your government would send me packing.
B19: Of course you could come to New Zealand if you are not a conviced felon. My family is currently sharing one of our homes with a young man from North Carolina, in refuge here from Trumpian values he can't support nor abide, while he searches for a job and establishes a pathway to obtaining residency here. He is 28, white and has just completed an engineering degree. We are very happy to take him under our wing, he has a lovely personality and likes the egalitarianism of New Zealand and the lack of a gun-happy culture here.
Canada would send me packing since I don’t make enough as I make nothing seems Canada doesn’t want to add drain to their nation why should a Crippled USA do it?
B19: Take it up with Canada, I can hardly advise you on their views of suitable USA immigrants to their country.
You have nothing to losfrkm this I do.
B19:
I have no idea what that sentence ^ means[/i]
If this happens and the USA collapses into anarchy you won’t be hurt or care. You’ll be safe in nz
[i]
B19: Don't presume to project onto me your prejudices about what I care about. NZ certainly is a safer country, partly because the populace doesn't elect completely unsuitable and inexperienced megalomaniacs whose only values are grasping power, control and money as leaders, also because people in synagogues, schools, public places, churches and muslim centres don't get murdered by white men with guns. No such attack has ever happened here. Perhaps you could ponder on the reasons for that before sneering about people being safe in New Zealand?
Sly, I get the feeling, though I may be wrong, that you have never travelled and experienced other cultures and countries in any real extent or depth. So perhaps for you, your sense of reality is shaped only by what you have experienced, and the USA is your only frame of reference. New Zealanders are huge travellers, more so than people in other Western cultures, with a huge interest in the world as a whole. In my own extensive travels in the USA, particularly in the Southern states, the insularity of people's attitudes was extremely obvious, the belief that nothing outside of the USA could possibly be better in any way so why bother to travel anywhere else. This insularity seems to limit understanding of other countries, other ways of doing things, other options. It's just the way it is.
02 Nov 2018, 5:07 am
Tollorin wrote:
Trump has greatly raised the debt these past few years; gotta pay for the tax cuts to the rich and the rising of army budget somehow.
When The national debt skyrocketed from $7.4 trillion to $19.57 trillion ($12.17 trillion increase) during the Obama administration, that was all George Bush's fault .
Now that it has increased another 2.03 trillion during the Trump administration... That's all Trump's fault.... the whole 21.6 trillion.
Amazing.
Last edited by EzraS on 02 Nov 2018, 5:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tollorin
Veteran
Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,178
Location: Sherbrooke, Québec, Canada
02 Nov 2018, 5:13 am
EzraS wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
Trump has greatly raised the debt these past few years; gotta pay for the tax cuts to the rich and the rising of army budget somehow.
When The national debt skyrocketed from $7.4 trillion to $19.57 trillion ($12.17 trillion increase) during the Obama administration, it was all George Bush's fault.
Now that it has increased 2.03 trillion during the Trump administration... That's all Trump's fault.... the whole 21.6 trillion.
Amazing.
I didn't said that it was all Trump fault.
_________________
Down with speculators!! !
02 Nov 2018, 5:19 am
Tollorin wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
Trump has greatly raised the debt these past few years; gotta pay for the tax cuts to the rich and the rising of army budget somehow.
When The national debt skyrocketed from $7.4 trillion to $19.57 trillion ($12.17 trillion increase) during the Obama administration, it was all George Bush's fault.
Now that it has increased 2.03 trillion during the Trump administration... That's all Trump's fault.... the whole 21.6 trillion.
Amazing.
I didn't said that it was all Trump fault.
That just seems to be the general overall attitude. Along with the $12.17 trillion increase during the Obama administration not being his fault whatsoever.... that was the previous president George Bush's fault.
But when there's a $2.03 increase during the Trump admin.... that's in no effing way Obama's fault.... That's all Trump's fault.
You must see the problem in this line of reasoning.
Last edited by EzraS on 02 Nov 2018, 7:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
02 Nov 2018, 5:23 am
Raptor wrote:
It's only bad to be heartless if you're non-progressive. Remember how the anti-war peaceniks suddenly fell nearly silent after Bush left office and Obama came in BUT we were still in Iraq and Afghanistan and would continue to be? I do. Personally, I've long since given up caring what they think, not that I've ever lost sleep over it. Also keep in mind that they hate America and anything that brings about our downfall can't come too soon.
02 Nov 2018, 5:25 am
Tollorin wrote:
sly279 wrote:
B19 wrote:
I would have thought that the USA is a much richer country than New Zealand is, and in fact it is. Money doesn't explain the discrimination which the USA practices and politicises.
Is New Zealand 18+trillion in debt and about to end or decrease their social security due to it running out of money and running a deficit?
Cause the USA is, our economy could collapse at any time if our debt is called on and that day is coming eventually, can’t just keep adding debt. We’ve kicked the cab down the road so many times. Every 3-6 months we face a government shut down.
So no we aren’t richer.
Again we have a lot of poor people as is and a lot of homeless on top of that we have people starving to death and freezing to death
We are not in any shape to take on more.
You make 81 billion a year and have 83 billion debt if you didn’t do anything else you could pay your debt in a year it’d take us like 10-15 years to pay ours off. We have even worse civilian debt.
Can I come to New Zealand? Bet your government would send me packing. Canada would send me packing since I don’t make enough as I make nothing seems Canada doesn’t want to add drain to their nation why should a Crippled USA do it?
You have nothing to losfrkm this I do. If this happens and the USA collapses into anarchy you won’t be hurt or care. You’ll be safe in nz
Trump has greatly raised the debt these past few years; gotta pay for the tax cuts to the rich and the rising of army budget, somehow.
Funny Obama did the same thing and gave bail outs to rich billionaires.
At least the tax cuts do helps middle class and poor some and isn’t just for the rich. Suppose if trump gave everyone $300 like Obama did you’d love him? Or would you say it’s bad cause it’s trump doing it.
Liberals version of the song
Anything I can do is good, if you do is bad.
02 Nov 2018, 5:38 am
B19 wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Can I come to New Zealand? Bet your government would send me packing.
B19: Of course you could come to New Zealand if you are not a conviced felon. My family is currently sharing one of our homes with a young man from North Carolina, in refuge here from Trumpian values he can't support nor abide, while he searches for a job and establishes a pathway to obtaining residency here. He is 28, white and has just completed an engineering degree. We are very happy to take him under our wing, he has a lovely personality and likes the egalitarianism of New Zealand and the lack of a gun-happy culture here.
Canada would send me packing since I don’t make enough as I make nothing seems Canada doesn’t want to add drain to their nation why should a Crippled USA do it?
B19: Take it up with Canada, I can hardly advise you on their views of suitable USA immigrants to their country.
You have nothing to losfrkm this I do.
B19:
I have no idea what that sentence ^ means[/i]
If this happens and the USA collapses into anarchy you won’t be hurt or care. You’ll be safe in nz
[i]
B19: Don't presume to project onto me your prejudices about what I care about. NZ certainly is a safer country, partly because the populace doesn't elect completely unsuitable and inexperienced megalomaniacs whose only values are grasping power, control and money as leaders, also because people in synagogues, schools, public places, churches and muslim centres don't get murdered by white men with guns. No such attack has ever happened here. Perhaps you could ponder on the reasons for that before sneering about people being safe in New Zealand?
Sly, I get the feeling, though I may be wrong, that you have never travelled and experienced other cultures and countries in any real extent or depth. So perhaps for you, your sense of reality is shaped only by what you have experienced, and the USA is your only frame of reference. New Zealanders are huge travellers, more so than people in other Western cultures, with a huge interest in the world as a whole. In my own extensive travels in the USA, particularly in the Southern states, the insularity of people's attitudes was extremely obvious, the belief that nothing outside of the USA could possibly be better in any way so why bother to travel anywhere else. This insularity seems to limit understanding of other countries, other ways of doing things, other options. It's just the way it is.
I can travel to North Korea and say I had a great time it’s a wonderful nation but the people who live there might disagree. Again if we bring in hundreds of millions of illegal immigrants you don’t have to live with the results of it. It’s as simple as that. I don’t care that New Zealand are rich enough to see the world as their playground.
No I can’t affoed to travel I’m dirt poor. I was born in this city and I’ll die here never having left the state.
I looked up your tax revenue and debt info
I dont know what tracing has to do with that.
Better is a point of view sorry but I don’t view any nation that doesn’t give their people freedoms like we do as better. You might view Americans gun rights as horrible it i dont. Even if I could travel I won’t step foot in California cause they deny people their rights. It’s a horrible state I don’t need to visit it to know that I don’t need to visit Somalia to know it’s a horrible country.
I learn about another nations. That’s about as much as a poor person can hope for and it’s about as much as a poor person 100 years ago could hope for. Nothings changed
Also I don’t think that of trump I think he’s a good president he’ll lot better then Obama and Clinton were.
I’m sure New Zealand being s tiny nation with a tiny population lacking diversity has nothing to do with it.
Know what the difference between me and many leftist here? I don’t insult them even when I talked about not liking Obama I didn’t insult those who did. The left thinks it can insult people then wonders why they don’t vote for them.
That’s be like me calling a woman a dirty slut whore then asking why she won’t date me.
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