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TW1ZTY
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02 Nov 2018, 3:53 pm

Biscuitman wrote:
I won some money on Trumps victory!

Admittedly I didn't think he would win, thought he had a chance though.


Maybe I should take bets on if Trump is going to drag us all into World War 3? If I win maybe I can buy my way out of the country and move somewhere safe, if I loose then at least there won't be a World War 3. :mrgreen:



TW1ZTY
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02 Nov 2018, 3:56 pm

Magna wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
And I always find it ironic whenever I hear white people in the U.S. complain about the illegal immigrants in this country because they themselves are descended from illegal immigrants who came over here from Europe and I do mean illegal immigrants. They came to a country that was not theirs and they took over like roaches and killed or oppressed all of the native people who were already here first and we basically treated them as being subhuman. I do not believe for one second that just because we had better weapons and technology that we had the right to do that to them. :roll:

And frankly I think the white colonists were a helluva lot more dangerous to the Native Americans than the illegal immigrants from countries like Mexico. They don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of doing to us what the European settlers did to the Native Americans.

The illegal immigrants descended from the same white Europeans.

Hispanics are like 50-70% European.

So, maybe , using your logic, Trump is justified in keeping out these descendents of white Europeans.

Why should we let them in, when native Americans owned this country first?


Then by that logic we should pack our s**t up and leave the country and go back to Europe too. Not like that's ever gonna happen of course. We stole this country fair and square :roll:

And yeah Addams Family Values was teh s**t! I love Wednesday! :D


If you're white, why would you have to wait for whites to go back to Europe en masse? A good practice if one believes very strongly about something they feel is wrong and should be changed is to act on it - to "practice what they preach" so to speak, whether it's climate change, immigration, religion or whatever their conviction might be related to.

It reminds me of a talk that Dinesh D'Souza had on a university campus some years back. A white male member of the audience was denouncing the advantages that "white privilege" gave to him, the student, that minority university students or applicants presumably did not get. Dinesh D'Souza suggested that the white male student do something about changing white privilege by giving up his own place as a student at the university and leaving school so a minority person could take his place. The student didn't seem to want to do that.........


I'm mixed. I guess I'd have to cut my body in half and send part of it to Europe and the other part to the Pacific Islands.

Yeah maybe I am being just a tad absurd, but I think I made a very valid point about the irony of the U.S.A.'s views on illegal immigration.



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02 Nov 2018, 4:19 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
Well considering that we stole their land and commited genocide against their people. Yeah, I'd say so.


It was not that simple. Some tribes welcomed the settlers (making "illegal" questionable in your analogy), some formed alliances, some embraced European ways, not all of them fought the Europeans (Left-wing natives?). These tribes proved peaceful coexistence was possible, at least in the present. The ones who fought back did so because they were not swayed by the prospects of coexistence, they saw the future and did not like it.


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TW1ZTY
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02 Nov 2018, 4:30 pm

Mikah wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Well considering that we stole their land and commited genocide against their people. Yeah, I'd say so.


It was not that simple. Some tribes welcomed the settlers (making "illegal" questionable in your analogy), some formed alliances, some embraced European ways, not all of them fought the Europeans (Left-wing natives?). These tribes proved peaceful coexistence was possible, at least in the present. The ones who fought back did so because they were not swayed by the prospects of coexistence, they saw the future and did not like it.


Fast forward to today after the white settlers screwed them over and drove them into living in cramp trailer parks on reservations after taking all of their land away. We either ripped them off (trading Manhatten for beads), forced them out of their homes (the trail of tears), or we simply killed them when they rightfully chose not to trust us.

They never should have welcomed us into their lands. I guess there's a harsh lesson to be learned about trusting people in that.



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02 Nov 2018, 4:32 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
...........I guess there's a harsh lesson to be learned about trusting people in that.


^^^^^^


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02 Nov 2018, 4:41 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
Mikah wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Well considering that we stole their land and commited genocide against their people. Yeah, I'd say so.


It was not that simple. Some tribes welcomed the settlers (making "illegal" questionable in your analogy), some formed alliances, some embraced European ways, not all of them fought the Europeans (Left-wing natives?). These tribes proved peaceful coexistence was possible, at least in the present. The ones who fought back did so because they were not swayed by the prospects of coexistence, they saw the future and did not like it.


Fast forward to today after the white settlers screwed them over and drove them into living in cramp trailer parks on reservations after taking all of their land away. We either ripped them off (trading Manhatten for beads), forced them out of their homes (the trail of tears), or we simply killed them when they rightfully chose not to trust us.

They never should have welcomed us into their lands. I guess there's a harsh lesson to be learned about trusting people in that.


So, on grounds of survival, despite some natives welcoming the outsiders, the Right-wing natives were right to fight back and try to see the (illegal?) European immigrants forced back where they came from.


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02 Nov 2018, 4:52 pm

Mikah wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Mikah wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Well considering that we stole their land and commited genocide against their people. Yeah, I'd say so.


It was not that simple. Some tribes welcomed the settlers (making "illegal" questionable in your analogy), some formed alliances, some embraced European ways, not all of them fought the Europeans (Left-wing natives?). These tribes proved peaceful coexistence was possible, at least in the present. The ones who fought back did so because they were not swayed by the prospects of coexistence, they saw the future and did not like it.


Fast forward to today after the white settlers screwed them over and drove them into living in cramp trailer parks on reservations after taking all of their land away. We either ripped them off (trading Manhatten for beads), forced them out of their homes (the trail of tears), or we simply killed them when they rightfully chose not to trust us.

They never should have welcomed us into their lands. I guess there's a harsh lesson to be learned about trusting people in that.


So, on grounds of survival, despite some natives welcoming the outsiders, the Right-wing natives were right to fight back and try to see the (illegal?) European immigrants forced back where they came from.


Yeah I guess, but they never stole this country from anybody unlike us. Seems a pretty unfair comparison to me. But maybe karma is in the works? :twisted:

Even if Trump does somehow build a wall around our country and turns us into isolationists I doubt it will fix any of our problems or even keep illegal immigrants out. Unless things get so shitty in this country that the immigrants have no reason to want to move here. :wink:



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02 Nov 2018, 5:04 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
Yeah I guess, but they never stole this country from anybody unlike us. Seems a pretty unfair comparison to me. But maybe karma is in the works? :twisted:


Well that depends on your perspective. While it's difficult to make direct parallels, the Americas were no utopia before the Europeans arrived. Tribal warfare was rampant and widespread by even European standards, pretty much every tribe they encountered would have taken that land from other tribes (duly wiping them out in the process) in their past. If what is coming to America now is karma, then the European conquest of America was karma for the natives.


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Most ignorance is vincible ignorance. We don’t know because we don’t want to know. It is our will that decides how and upon what subjects we shall use our intelligence. Those who detect no meaning in the world generally do so because, for one reason or another, it suits their books that the world should be meaningless.

And the end of all our exploring
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02 Nov 2018, 5:11 pm

Mikah wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Yeah I guess, but they never stole this country from anybody unlike us. Seems a pretty unfair comparison to me. But maybe karma is in the works? :twisted:


Well that depends on your perspective. While it's difficult to make direct parallels, the Americas were no utopia before the Europeans arrived. Tribal warfare was rampant and widespread by even European standards, pretty much every tribe they encountered would have taken that land from other tribes (duly wiping them out in the process) in their past. If what is coming to America now is karma, then the European conquest of America was karma for the natives.



Hey, nobody ever said Karma wasn't a b***h. :lol:

If Americans are really so sick of immigrants coming here (legal or illegal) then all they gotta do is wait until things get so bad in this country that nobody will want to move here. Hell we might even have U.S. citizens trying to sneak into Canada illegally for a better life and then they'll know how it feels. :lol:



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02 Nov 2018, 6:23 pm

I predict that the 2020 election will be the most decisive one yet. I also predict lots of strawman arguments from both sides.


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TW1ZTY
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02 Nov 2018, 6:41 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
I predict that the 2020 election will be the most decisive one yet. I also predict lots of strawman arguments from both sides.

I have a feeling he's going to win. There's just too many people who support him no matter what he does.

I bet he could somehow create a law where anybody who dares to say something negative about him will be tortured to death by being burned alive before the public and his supporters would still love him.



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02 Nov 2018, 6:45 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Bataar wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Bataar wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Bataar wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Bataar wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Piobaire wrote:
I mistakenly assumed that my society was too far advanced and my countrymen far too intelligent to replace the first Black president with a racist know-nothing endorsed by the Ku Klux Klan.
Clearly, I overestimated both.

You're not the only one. Hell I didn't even think it was legal for him to say all this s**t he does about women, hispanics, and black people on TV. If it were anybody else in this country saying those things they would have had so many Civil Rights lawsuits filed against them and their reputation quickly ruined. What exactly makes this guy so untouchable? :|

What s**t does he say about women, Hispanics and black people on TV?




I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't understand what racism is if they believe anything in that video was actually racist.


He talks about advantages educated black men have. What is racist about that? It's 100% accurate. In corporate America, if two people were applying for a job, a white man and a black man and they were of similar experience and education, the black man would get hired most of the time. It helps the company's diversity numbers. It's just the way things are now and recognizing it is not racist.


So how would you define racism? I define it as putting down a group of people or a person as being "evil" or "inferior" because of the color of their skin, which is exactly what Trump has done over and over. Hell even praising another group of people based on the color of their skin is still racism. Judging anybody because of their skin color IS racist.

EDIT: But whatever, it's a big waste of time trying to make people like you see logic. I actually feel sorry for people like you.

I pretty much agree with everything you say here. Not everything, but most. What I disagree with is whether or not Trump has put down anyone due to their race or color of their skin. By your definition, the left is very racist as well. I agree Trump isn't the smoothest talker, but I also look at what he says in context. Take, for example, the example of Trump's racist statement against Mexicans by calling them rapists. I've heard people make that claim over and over. Did he say all Mexican's are rapists? Did he say most Mexican's are rapists? Of course not. He said the Mexican government sends rapists across the border. That is not, in anyway a racist statement. It may not be true, but it's not racist at all.


I think racism and other forms of prejudice are overall still a very big problem no matter what side you are on.

But speaking of what he said about Mexicans, the way he said "I assume some are good people" leads me to believe that he pretty believes they are bad people, as if there's some possible chance in his own mind that he assumes wrong that any of them are actually good people.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what he really meant by saying that.

Again, we're probably more on the same length than we think. I pretty much agree again. However, what "people" are you saying Trump was talking about? When he said, "I assume some are good people," (I don't recall if that is verbatim or not) again, he was not referring to all Mexicans or even all Mexican immigrants. He was referring to the people he claimed the Mexican government was sending over the border, most of which he claims are criminals. He was trying to say the Mexican government is offloading their criminals by sending them over the border. Again, that might not be true at all, but that's the context. In that context, it's probably safe to assume most of the people wouldn't be "good people".


According to his side preventing illegal immigration is racist . Illegal immigrants come from all races
Muslim van was racist. Muslims are not a race but a religious group of many races. Also he wasn’t banning all Muslims he was banning people from certain Muslim countries with known terrorist not all muslim nations.
They claim because he condemned both extremists at that march he’s racist kkk
Both sides were violent and in the wrong both deserved to be condemned.

They claim he ordered the bombing attacks while he condemns it and launched a man hunt for the person responsible.

They claim he supports terrorist while he orders our military to track and kill terrorists while Obama gave them money and arms.

I don’t believe anything they claim


If we want to do away with all the illegal immigrants I say we start by kicking all the white people out of the U.S.A. and send their asses back to Europe where they came from.

Yeah, I said it. :roll:


That is the single most stupidest thing to say
I’m not even going to dignify it with a proper response



TW1ZTY
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02 Nov 2018, 6:47 pm

sly279 wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Bataar wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Bataar wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Bataar wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Bataar wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Piobaire wrote:
I mistakenly assumed that my society was too far advanced and my countrymen far too intelligent to replace the first Black president with a racist know-nothing endorsed by the Ku Klux Klan.
Clearly, I overestimated both.

You're not the only one. Hell I didn't even think it was legal for him to say all this s**t he does about women, hispanics, and black people on TV. If it were anybody else in this country saying those things they would have had so many Civil Rights lawsuits filed against them and their reputation quickly ruined. What exactly makes this guy so untouchable? :|

What s**t does he say about women, Hispanics and black people on TV?




I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't understand what racism is if they believe anything in that video was actually racist.


He talks about advantages educated black men have. What is racist about that? It's 100% accurate. In corporate America, if two people were applying for a job, a white man and a black man and they were of similar experience and education, the black man would get hired most of the time. It helps the company's diversity numbers. It's just the way things are now and recognizing it is not racist.


So how would you define racism? I define it as putting down a group of people or a person as being "evil" or "inferior" because of the color of their skin, which is exactly what Trump has done over and over. Hell even praising another group of people based on the color of their skin is still racism. Judging anybody because of their skin color IS racist.

EDIT: But whatever, it's a big waste of time trying to make people like you see logic. I actually feel sorry for people like you.

I pretty much agree with everything you say here. Not everything, but most. What I disagree with is whether or not Trump has put down anyone due to their race or color of their skin. By your definition, the left is very racist as well. I agree Trump isn't the smoothest talker, but I also look at what he says in context. Take, for example, the example of Trump's racist statement against Mexicans by calling them rapists. I've heard people make that claim over and over. Did he say all Mexican's are rapists? Did he say most Mexican's are rapists? Of course not. He said the Mexican government sends rapists across the border. That is not, in anyway a racist statement. It may not be true, but it's not racist at all.


I think racism and other forms of prejudice are overall still a very big problem no matter what side you are on.

But speaking of what he said about Mexicans, the way he said "I assume some are good people" leads me to believe that he pretty believes they are bad people, as if there's some possible chance in his own mind that he assumes wrong that any of them are actually good people.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what he really meant by saying that.

Again, we're probably more on the same length than we think. I pretty much agree again. However, what "people" are you saying Trump was talking about? When he said, "I assume some are good people," (I don't recall if that is verbatim or not) again, he was not referring to all Mexicans or even all Mexican immigrants. He was referring to the people he claimed the Mexican government was sending over the border, most of which he claims are criminals. He was trying to say the Mexican government is offloading their criminals by sending them over the border. Again, that might not be true at all, but that's the context. In that context, it's probably safe to assume most of the people wouldn't be "good people".


According to his side preventing illegal immigration is racist . Illegal immigrants come from all races
Muslim van was racist. Muslims are not a race but a religious group of many races. Also he wasn’t banning all Muslims he was banning people from certain Muslim countries with known terrorist not all muslim nations.
They claim because he condemned both extremists at that march he’s racist kkk
Both sides were violent and in the wrong both deserved to be condemned.

They claim he ordered the bombing attacks while he condemns it and launched a man hunt for the person responsible.

They claim he supports terrorist while he orders our military to track and kill terrorists while Obama gave them money and arms.

I don’t believe anything they claim


If we want to do away with all the illegal immigrants I say we start by kicking all the white people out of the U.S.A. and send their asses back to Europe where they came from.

Yeah, I said it. :roll:


That is the single most stupidest thing to say
I’m not even going to dignify it with a proper response



And yet you responded. :lol:

OK I'm done with that.



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06 Nov 2018, 1:42 pm

TW1ZTY wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
I predict that the 2020 election will be the most decisive one yet. I also predict lots of strawman arguments from both sides.

I have a feeling he's going to win. There's just too many people who support him no matter what he does.

I bet he could somehow create a law where anybody who dares to say something negative about him will be tortured to death by being burned alive before the public and his supporters would still love him.

It's the left, not the right who wants to make "hate speech" illegal.



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06 Nov 2018, 3:47 pm

You can stop panicking now. The sky isn't falling.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/j ... d-a-crisis


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07 Nov 2018, 1:19 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
You can stop panicking now. The sky isn't falling.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/j ... d-a-crisis


The sky may not be not falling but it is lower then it used to be.

While the article talks about America it is understandably more about the UK. As such it understandably does not distinguish between free speech and freedom of expression as that distinction does not exist in a meaningful way.

I have seen surveys claiming younger people are more censorious but let's assume the survey cited showing little difference between generations is true. It is the loudest people that get what they want not the what policies are most popular. It also matters who is pushing "SJW" type censorship. It is coming from the most influential campuses and influential and youthful companies. Another words future and in some cases current leadership.

While I am still pretty worried about the long-term, the election did give me a degree of comfort about the short term. As I mentioned in the other thread, in general, the group of Democrats coming into power are not radical, there are a number of women who served for example. Nancy Pelosi has spoken out against Antifa rioters.

There is little doubt the whole idea of political correctness and snowflakes was brought into the political conversation to shame and silence progressives but it does not mean they did not identify a real problem.

Why some comedians don't like college campuses
Quote:
Did you hear the one about the comedian and the college?

The two usually go well together. Indeed, colleges are popular venues for comedians, with agencies devoted to booking performers on campus. Comedy Central even has a college tour.

But, sometimes, it's as if students and comedians are speaking different languages.

Take comedian Chuck Nice. He told a bit about getting on his knees at the playground and giving his young daughter a dollar for swinging on a pole in a manner that reminded him of a stripper.

It was satire, he says, meant to show that the last thing he wanted was his daughter to become a stripper. The next day, he received a letter telling him he was not welcome back to the institution, he said.

That's what comedians are talking about when they say college campuses have become places where sensitivity has run amok," he said. "There are tons of stories like that."

Apparently, some of those stories are getting back to Jerry Seinfeld, who told ESPN Radio's Colin Cowherd that he's been cautioned against playing colleges. Cowherd asked Seinfeld whether he was worried that the overall media "climate" was too sensitive for comedians, citing comments from Chris Rock and Larry the Cable Guy, who said they don't want to play college campuses.

"I hear that all the time," Seinfeld said. "A lot of people tell me 'don't go near colleges.' They're so PC."

He cited his 14-year-old daughter's use of the word "sexist" as evidence of how people -- presumably, those between his daughter's age and college age -- misuse the words "racist," "prejudice" and "sexist" because they don't know "what they're talking about."

Still, some comedians say there's no denying the perception of college campuses as dicey territory for comedy. Comedy is meant to be provocative, but they observe that offending jokes are being amplified and acted on faster and more frequently in the digital age than in previous eras -- especially on college campuses.

Words and ideas fall out of favor as they change in power and meaning. People today think twice today before saying "that's so gay" or calling someone "retarded." That probably wasn't the case even a decade ago.
It's not necessarily a bad thing, says Nice.

"The landscape of cultural norms is always changing, and comedy changes along with it," he said.

By way of example he offered up Norman Lear's "All in the Family," the popular 1970s sitcom about a working-class family and its bigoted patriarch, Archie Bunker.

The show would never get made today, he said, and "part of that's a bad thing, because it shows we've lost our taste for (its) satire."

On the other hand, "it's a good thing, because it shows we're aware of the need to be sensitive to those outside the cultural majority," he said.

Seinfeld and Rock have reached a point where they can bemoan the state of affairs and avoid college campuses with little impact to their careers, Leonard said. Today's generation of comics "has different points of stress" for things that matter or don't matter, and being culturally sensitive isn't necessarily one of them.

Second City partners with Chicago's Columbia College to offer a bachelor of arts degree in comedy. One of the biggest difficulties working with college-age comedians is that "they are very sensitive to the idea of offending someone," said Anne Libera, director of Second City's comedy studies.

Most of the time, they don't feel personally offended, she said. "It's more a sense of the fear of being called out, the fear of being shamed," she said.

It's an odd dichotomy, she said. Judging from the crowds at comedy shows and the popularity of online comedy platforms, the appetite for comedy among college students appears to be bigger than ever.

Would she play a college campus? Probably not, she said. Not worth the risk.

"There's a lot more judgment and a lot less acceptance," she said. "There's the segment that's afraid of laughing, the segment afraid of being offended and another segment that's afraid of other people being offended."


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