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imdoneone
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08 Nov 2018, 7:42 pm

Should autistic relatives avoid having children because it's hereditary?



Richard_the_ Dogged
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08 Nov 2018, 8:02 pm

That is a terrible thing to think.

Better, should people have children when they have not resolved their own issues and learned to live authentic lives and make authentic choices. I say the answer is NO!

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green0star
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08 Nov 2018, 9:54 pm

If someone wants children and they're able to care for them, then why not. If they don't then they shouldn't. Not because they're autistic.



Richard_the_ Dogged
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09 Nov 2018, 6:41 pm

Quote:
If someone wants children and they're able to care for them, then why not. If they don't then they shouldn't. Not because they're autistic.


I basically agree with you. You can't tell people that they can't have children. No one wants a dystopia like that.

But fact is, the middle-class lives in Bad Faith, so they use children, exploit them. So it is better if people resolve their own issues and find out how to live authentic lives first.

And, quite frankly, the lower the birth rate, the greater the chances of averting environmental and economic catastrophe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authentic ... losophy%29

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Autism-Aspergers is just a concept invented to legitimate the abuse of children and adults. Neuro-Diversity is just a way of pleading for pity. So I no longer talk about these, I talk about lived experience, often the experience of being othered and then persecuted. I call this experience of having intelligence, insight, intuition, and mystical abilities, the Shamanic Experience. And those of us who live it need to start banding together and protecting ourselves, each other, and the children of today. Beautiful Planet, just a rotten economic and political system.


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09 Nov 2018, 9:31 pm

No doubt there are still some old-style eugenicists who believe in the "should" of this thread's title, though the smarter ones would know that two neurotypical parents can also have autistic offspring.

I am very glad that I became an AS parent and grandparent and used my own intrinsic knowledge and experience of living as an AS person myself to guide my children and grandchildren toward more fulfilment of their individual talents. AS children born to NT parents don't have that advantage, and are probably more likely to be packed off to ABA behaviourist programs to be trained rather like the animals behaviourists founded their shonky theory on.



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10 Nov 2018, 5:56 am

Whether or not anyone with any hereditary disorders should have kids, is something that they need to find their own individual answer to. There is no right or wrong, black or white solution to that.
Not everyone would be able to deal with it, and they shouldn't be made to, it's not in the best interest of anyone.


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AprilR
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10 Nov 2018, 7:54 am

Skilpadde wrote:
Whether or not anyone with any hereditary disorders should have kids, is something that they need to find their own individual answer to. There is no right or wrong, black or white solution to that.
Not everyone would be able to deal with it, and they shouldn't be made to, it's not in the best interest of anyone.


Agreed. Autistic or not, not every person is equipped with the skills to have children. We're not animals and it takes a lot of thought and responsibility to have children.



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10 Nov 2018, 10:09 am

That is up to them, however I don't think they should avoid having kids just because the kid is more likely to be autistic. We aren't less than the nt.



dragonsanddemons
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10 Nov 2018, 11:50 am

Skilpadde wrote:
Whether or not anyone with any hereditary disorders should have kids, is something that they need to find their own individual answer to. There is no right or wrong, black or white solution to that.
Not everyone would be able to deal with it, and they shouldn't be made to, it's not in the best interest of anyone.


Agreed. Granted I have no experience or evidence to base it on, but I'd think that an autistic parent would be better able to raise an autistic child than an NT parent would be, because they'd have first-hand experience of what the child is going through, and their brains would work in a similar manner. But on the other hand, I know that I personally would make a bad parent, in part due to some of my autistic traits like sensory issues (making it very hard for me to comfort a crying baby because the crying was sending me into sensory overload, for example). So really, I agree with everyone else who says that it really is up to the potential parents, just like any other couple deciding whether or not to have children.


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10 Nov 2018, 1:07 pm

imdoneone wrote:
Should autistic relatives avoid having children because it's hereditary?


Let's come back to that one after some real action on the climate crisis. I waited to have kids until I could support them sustainably, which was never possible in the modern economy.
My mother, who only had children out of a sense of duty and probably should have not tried raising anyone, was active in Zero Population Growth when the world population was half what it is now.



cfleischmann
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10 Nov 2018, 2:40 pm

Not only is it a terrible thing to suggest, but it's like saying brown haired people shouldn't have children because brown hair is hereditary just like we don't tell people with disabilities like blindness not to have children.


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Richard_the_ Dogged
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10 Nov 2018, 5:33 pm

I don't see there as being any Autism-Asperger's Hereditary Disorder, or Deficiency, or Defect.

This is why I don't even talk about Autism - Apsergers, or Neurological difference, I am calling the lived experience of being an outsider, Shamanic Experience.

And of course you want any future shamans to be raised by shamans, not muggles.

And as far as torturing children, I present to you Lynn Kern Koegel of the University of California:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYQ0R6pSFGE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n9vlBtbji8

I believe her actions fall within the Nuremburg definition of Crimes Against Humanity:

"Murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation, and other inhumane acts committed against any civilian population, before or during the war, or persecutions on political, racial or religious grounds in execution of or in connection with any crime within the jurisdiction of the Tribunal, whether or not in violation of the domestic law of the country where perpetrated."

And so overseas War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity prosecution is written into the German Constitution and Federal Law. Remember it was a Spanish Judge who handed out the indictment against Augusto Pinochet.

And in Germany NGO's can bring about indictments. There are already a couple of prominent Americans whom you won't be seeing at Oktoberfest, or anywhere else in the EU.

And without the Eugenics Movement, Autism could not even exist:
https://www.amazon.com/Constructing-Aut ... 0415321816

Eugenics and Social Darwinism started in the latter part of the 19th Century. But the formulation which remains most influential today comes to us from the Nazi Party.

Richard


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Autism-Aspergers is just a concept invented to legitimate the abuse of children and adults. Neuro-Diversity is just a way of pleading for pity. So I no longer talk about these, I talk about lived experience, often the experience of being othered and then persecuted. I call this experience of having intelligence, insight, intuition, and mystical abilities, the Shamanic Experience. And those of us who live it need to start banding together and protecting ourselves, each other, and the children of today. Beautiful Planet, just a rotten economic and political system.


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11 Nov 2018, 9:01 am

Richard_the_ Dogged wrote:
Quote:
If someone wants children and they're able to care for them, then why not. If they don't then they shouldn't. Not because they're autistic.


I basically agree with you. You can't tell people that they can't have children. No one wants a dystopia like that.

But fact is, the middle-class lives in Bad Faith, so they use children, exploit them. So it is better if people resolve their own issues and find out how to live authentic lives first.

And, quite frankly, the lower the birth rate, the greater the chances of averting environmental and economic catastrophe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authentic ... losophy%29

Richard


I see children as nothing more then a chore honestly but that's just me. My parents have told me about them wanting me to care for a child by means of adoption and pressured me about it for a long time. They have even told me that if I don't want children then I have no business being in a relationship with my boyfriend. But since he doesn't want children I don't see why not.



Dear_one
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11 Nov 2018, 11:20 am

green0star wrote:
I see children as nothing more then a chore honestly but that's just me. My parents have told me about them wanting me to care for a child by means of adoption and pressured me about it for a long time. They have even told me that if I don't want children then I have no business being in a relationship with my boyfriend. But since he doesn't want children I don't see why not.


Your parents probably absorbed the Roman Catholic attitude that sex should only happen to start babies, and that babies are the only important goal in life. Humans are more complex than that, and have strong social needs even if they are not blessed with a full set of parenting prospects.



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11 Nov 2018, 11:27 am

Dear_one wrote:
green0star wrote:
I see children as nothing more then a chore honestly but that's just me. My parents have told me about them wanting me to care for a child by means of adoption and pressured me about it for a long time. They have even told me that if I don't want children then I have no business being in a relationship with my boyfriend. But since he doesn't want children I don't see why not.


Your parents probably absorbed the Roman Catholic attitude that sex should only happen to start babies, and that babies are the only important goal in life. Humans are more complex than that, and have strong social needs even if they are not blessed with a full set of parenting prospects.


Oddly, the bible discourages marriage, and has a higher focus on children of the spirit.

according to paul;
Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.