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ironpony
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19 Sep 2021, 8:59 am

Fnord wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Why is it that it seems that most women make such a big deal about a guy being a virgin but if it's a female virgin, most guys don't care, in comparison?
Is that “most” women everywhere and all of the time, or only “most” of only the few women you actually know?


Well before I lost my virginity, I must have told at least 30 women I was a virgin and they all had a problem with it. It just seems 30 is a significant number if they ALL had a problem with knowing I was a virgin. So I decided not to tell any woman after and that went better.



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19 Sep 2021, 12:28 pm

 ! Cornflake wrote:
Several off-topic posts discussing moderation plus those making personal attacks and disparaging comments on the moderation team have been removed.

Please keep to the topic.
Any further attacks will be dealt with more formally.


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19 Sep 2021, 2:15 pm

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
@ezbzbfcg2

That's weird? I don't recall ever having a dispute with you? perhaps you were saying stuff about NTs that caught the eye of mods but I don't particularly care since NTs have plenty of privileges.

NTs don't have a checklist for autism but they do have a checklist for "special needs" and they tend to lump everyone with a neurodevelopment disorder into one one bucket. The fine distinctions you are alluding to don't cross the minds of NTs unless they have a family member with a specific disorder. You can be high functioning "insert disorder" for anything as long as you pass for normal. The moment you show signs of having behaviour (outside of the normal range) then you begin to be perceived as strange. NTs tend to avoid strangeness or they prey on it as a weakness.

You need to bring something to the table to compensate for those "divergences" so an NT will consider being your friend or your partner. Many people on WP obviously have succeeded as they have partners and friends who are NT.

My commentary wasn't about AS-NT dating. Totally not the point at all.

I was trying to compare two unrelated issues where the same sort of discrimination pops up:
higher-functioning Aspies being ostracized/victimized by NTs who don't know, much less care about a spectrum, or are told they can't be on the spectrum because they're not an extreme case...doesn't make the spectrum any less real (I think the people on this website can comprehend this point).

Unrelated issue: Men's looks are a spectrum. (Nothing to do with neurotype, this affects NTs and Aspies, we're talking purely acceptable looks). Some men fall below the passable level in the eyes of women. And these men don't have to be extreme cases like Elephant Man. Yet, they'll be told by other men, men who can't comprehend the spectrum, that they simply need to work a little harder or it's all their fault...

So, two unrelated issues, but similar situations. I was hoping that since most people here can comprehend the first scenario (the concept of an Autistic spectrum, most NTs not knowing or caring and unable to discern only extreme cases), maybe they'd at least think about a looks spectrum. As is, their hatred and discrimination toward the ugly is comparable to the way Aspies are sometimes hated and discriminated against. I'm trying to explain ignorance and hypocrisy.

No need to explain more about the NT-AS dynamic. Not the point of my posting. The point is the ||. The Aspies here know full well an Autistic spectrum exists, even if NTs don't know/care. Hypocritically, they can't even entertain the idea that a looks spectrum exists.


For someone who insists, men know nothing about male attractiveness and its the women who decide that....you sure don't seem interested in perspectives from actual women in regards to what they think about attractiveness.

Also, being discriminated against for having a developmental disorder or any other disability is not even close to the same thing as women choosing not to have sex with a guy they aren't into.


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Fnord
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19 Sep 2021, 3:21 pm

ironpony wrote:
Fnord wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Why is it that it seems that most women make such a big deal about a guy being a virgin but if it's a female virgin, most guys don't care, in comparison?
Is that “most” women everywhere and all of the time, or only “most” of only the few women you actually know?
Well before I lost my virginity, I must have told at least 30 women I was a virgin and they all had a problem with it. It just seems 30 is a significant number if they ALL had a problem with knowing I was a virgin. So I decided not to tell any woman after and that went better.
So it is only "most" of just the few women you actually know.


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19 Sep 2021, 5:38 pm

ironpony wrote:
Fnord wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Why is it that it seems that most women make such a big deal about a guy being a virgin but if it's a female virgin, most guys don't care, in comparison?
Is that “most” women everywhere and all of the time, or only “most” of only the few women you actually know?


Well before I lost my virginity, I must have told at least 30 women I was a virgin and they all had a problem with it.

It was the opposite for me. They just didn't care. One strongly religious girl I was involved with actually thought it was a good thing. The (not religious) girl I lost it to didn't mind.

One other girl I saw before didn't care either and the rest, I didn't tell them. They didn't need to know.


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ironpony
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19 Sep 2021, 8:09 pm

Fnord wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Fnord wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Why is it that it seems that most women make such a big deal about a guy being a virgin but if it's a female virgin, most guys don't care, in comparison?
Is that “most” women everywhere and all of the time, or only “most” of only the few women you actually know?
Well before I lost my virginity, I must have told at least 30 women I was a virgin and they all had a problem with it. It just seems 30 is a significant number if they ALL had a problem with knowing I was a virgin. So I decided not to tell any woman after and that went better.
So it is only "most" of just the few women you actually know.


Yes but I can only go by my personal experiences when giving advice on guys to not tell women. I am not going to go by any experience of other people that is not personal to me, when giving such advice.



Fnord
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19 Sep 2021, 9:38 pm

ironpony wrote:
... I am not going to go by any experience of other people that is not personal to me, when giving such advice.
If your only experiences with riding horses is getting thrown at the first 'giddyup', then the only advice you could give about being a jockey would involve how to hit the ground without breaking your neck, and not how to win races.


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19 Sep 2021, 9:57 pm

Fnord wrote:
If your only experiences with riding horses is getting thrown at the first 'giddyup', then the only advice you could give about being a jockey would involve how to hit the ground without breaking your neck, and not how to win races.
We butt heads a lot, and we'll never agree on politics. But damn it, Fnord, this is the most relatable comment you've made in months. I'm giving credit where it's due. Respect! :thumright:


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cyberdad
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19 Sep 2021, 11:47 pm

ironpony wrote:
Well before I lost my virginity, I must have told at least 30 women I was a virgin and they all had a problem with it. .


Why did you do that?



ironpony
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20 Sep 2021, 2:08 am

Fnord wrote:
ironpony wrote:
... I am not going to go by any experience of other people that is not personal to me, when giving such advice.
If your only experiences with riding horses is getting thrown at the first 'giddyup', then the only advice you could give about being a jockey would involve how to hit the ground without breaking your neck, and not how to win races.


Well if I have about 30 women's reactions to go buy I would call that more than a first giddyup. Most incel men I am guessing haven't made it into 30 women's bedrooms even, so I feel my advice on that must have some weight there.



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20 Sep 2021, 4:10 am

ironpony wrote:
Fnord wrote:
ironpony wrote:
... I am not going to go by any experience of other people that is not personal to me, when giving such advice.
If your only experiences with riding horses is getting thrown at the first 'giddyup', then the only advice you could give about being a jockey would involve how to hit the ground without breaking your neck, and not how to win races.


Well if I have about 30 women's reactions to go buy I would call that more than a first giddyup. Most incel men I am guessing haven't made it into 30 women's bedrooms even, so I feel my advice on that must have some weight there.


Where did you meet these gals?



ezbzbfcg2
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20 Sep 2021, 5:35 am

cyberdad wrote:
ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
If you're an Aspie, you know NTs are often oblivious to the concept of an Autistic spectrum and only recognize extreme cases...

If you're a decent-looking Aspie, realize that you may be oblivious to the looks spectrum and stop demonizing the ugly

(just like the way NTs may demonize you as higher-functioning Aspies). Just because you can't fathom something, it doesn't make it any less real.


Got it now...is there an outcome you would like to see?

I sympathize with what Aspie1 has said. In his experience, he did date a woman he didn't find attractive. Many in this thread say things like, "incels only want really attractive women, they're not willing to go for women they find sub-par." According to Aspie1, he did just that.

When even this sub-par woman didn't express interest in anything intimate, he didn't force her. People here say things like, "Incels feel women owe them sex!" That wasn't true in his case.

He then went the prostitution route. Maybe it did help with his confidence.

One user called him things like 'nasty' and 'disgusting.' Even though the same user said he isn't opposed to prostitution. Aspie1 also mentioned that two waitresses he never made any advances toward went out of their way to point out his ugliness.

If you're a man and you want to know if you fall below the passable looks level for women, a good rule of thumb is to not only observe how many women reject your advances, but how even women you have no interest it in go out of their way to ostracize you because they see you as ugly. The law of averages will show a man how ugly he is in the eyes of women based on experience.

If you yourself, as a man, are not this ugly, realize that some men have had different experiences. Even if they "look like average guys" to you...women may think differently. (As a || comparison, Aspies have had different experiences than NTs, who may be oblivious to what we go through as autists, even if we "look like normal people" to them.)



ezbzbfcg2
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20 Sep 2021, 5:56 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
For someone who insists, men know nothing about male attractiveness and its the women who decide that....you sure don't seem interested in perspectives from actual women in regards to what they think about attractiveness.

I'd love to hear persepctives from actual women.

I don't believe that anyone owes anyone anything. If you're a women, and you don't find a man unattractive or unappealing for whatever reason, you're fully within your right to turn him down. He isn't entitled to anything, and I've never said otherwise.

What I'd ask you to think about is this: If a man you aren't interested in makes a pass at you and you reject him, there are two possibilities:
1) He's had lots of other girlfriends before. You're not into him, he'll find someone else. He's simply not your type.
2) You, like dozens of women beforehand, have turned him down...vast majority of women (averages) have no interest in him.

Man #2 is probably statistically ugly to women if that many find him unappealing.

I do wonder if women think about that...AGAIN, women don't owe men anything. I never said otherwise...

But I do wonder if women ever think, "He's not my type" vs. "I wonder how many other women have rejected him." What say you?



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20 Sep 2021, 7:03 am

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
The law of averages will show a man how ugly he is in the eyes of women based on experience.


I think the critical thing here is the experience.

When I was young, I assumed men moulded women in the image they liked and women responded in accordance to make themselves more attractive to men. As I have got older I realise now what I didn't know before. For NT women their demand for men is like a marketplace and the desirability of a man is what is subject to market forces of female desire.

It may not be front and foremost but men are biologically programmed. our strongest driver (motivator) is to attain a status to pass on our genes. A lot of this is subliminal but our lives, careers and outward appearance is designed to catch a girl. This is why when we go through stages where we have no luck with women its so hard to shake it off.

I kind of understand your frustration (I have been though it) but (and there's always a but) whatever we do we are subject to demand and supply, If there is a ready supply of men then competition is going to be tough, The effort you want to put in is always going to be a function of the experience you have had. I get it.



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20 Sep 2021, 8:11 am

ironpony wrote:
Fnord wrote:
ironpony wrote:
... I am not going to go by any experience of other people that is not personal to me, when giving such advice.
If your only experiences with riding horses is getting thrown at the first 'giddyup', then the only advice you could give about being a jockey would involve how to hit the ground without breaking your neck, and not how to win races.
Well if I have about 30 women's reactions to go buy I would call that more than a first giddyup. Most incel men I am guessing haven't made it into 30 women's bedrooms even, so I feel my advice on that must have some weight there.
Giving advice to incel men is pointless, since they seem to have a counter-excuse against everything that actually works.

:roll: "Okay, but..."


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20 Sep 2021, 11:46 am

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
If you're an Aspie, you know NTs are often oblivious to the concept of an Autistic spectrum and only recognize extreme cases...

If you're a decent-looking Aspie, realize that you may be oblivious to the looks spectrum and stop demonizing the ugly

(just like the way NTs may demonize you as higher-functioning Aspies). Just because you can't fathom something, it doesn't make it any less real.


Got it now...is there an outcome you would like to see?

I sympathize with what Aspie1 has said. In his experience, he did date a woman he didn't find attractive. Many in this thread say things like, "incels only want really attractive women, they're not willing to go for women they find sub-par." According to Aspie1, he did just that.

When even this sub-par woman didn't express interest in anything intimate, he didn't force her. People here say things like, "Incels feel women owe them sex!" That wasn't true in his case.

He then went the prostitution route. Maybe it did help with his confidence.

One user called him things like 'nasty' and 'disgusting.' Even though the same user said he isn't opposed to prostitution. Aspie1 also mentioned that two waitresses he never made any advances toward went out of their way to point out his ugliness.

If you're a man and you want to know if you fall below the passable looks level for women, a good rule of thumb is to not only observe how many women reject your advances, but how even women you have no interest it in go out of their way to ostracize you because they see you as ugly. The law of averages will show a man how ugly he is in the eyes of women based on experience.

If you yourself, as a man, are not this ugly, realize that some men have had different experiences. Even if they "look like average guys" to you...women may think differently. (As a || comparison, Aspies have had different experiences than NTs, who may be oblivious to what we go through as autists, even if we "look like normal people" to them.)


Just because I think prostitution should be legal doesn't mean I approve of it. Same with drugs. I think they should be legal because their illegality causes far more problems than it prevents, but I still see them as nasty and disgusting.