More Thought on Incels.

Post Reply New Topic

The alpha/beta divide is hard-coded in a man's DNA. (There is no such equivalent in women.) It can't be changed. It's like not being able to change your skin color or your adult height. Women can sense it; maybe it's the way a man's sweat smells, his pheromones, or his unconscious mannerisms. Since most beta males live harder, more stressful lives, their sweat is likely to contain higher level of cortisol, a stress hormone, that's offputting to women. After all, if a man experiences stress often, it means he occupies a low genetic status.

However, all is not lost. Most beta males can emulate alpha males with a good degree of success. That's where the books you mentioned come in. They teach beta males the behavioral traits of alpha males. So while a beta male's unattractive face cannot be changed without plastic surgery, alpha behaviors can be memorized, rehearsed, and integrated into his persona. If he isn't too unattractive, he can pass for alpha with women well enough.

So... like anything else, alpha behaviors can be learned. For example, a full-on beta may drive for 2 hours and cancel plans with friends, just for date with a woman who said yes to him. While an alpha-emulating beta will insist on a place and time that works for him, and have no qualms about rejecting a woman who insists otherwise. Such behaviors send women a message that this man has options dating-wise, and therefore can afford to insist on his ways. Having dating options is one of the best signs of being an alpha male, and women know this.

Oh okay. I don't suppose they make hormone blockers for that that can block or reduce cortisol? But if beta males sweat more, because they have more stressful lives, if their lives are more stressful because they are betas, then if they were to be alphas and take more control, then that means less stress, and therefore less cortisol?

It's just more unsubstantiated pseudoscience, brought to you by the sorts of people who sell miracle pheromone-based cures for poor dating luck on the back pages of Maxim.

Your conclusions are reasonable, if the hypothetical assumptions they need to rely on were true. Since they're not, no one makes a product of that nature. At least not one that isn't snake-oil to swindle insecure men.

Amen to all this.

I see. I wasn't sure about that science.

Well it's just that I use to be incel and could never get women, but I read those books on dating and seduction and kept practicing on how to be more alpha but also more charming, based on the books, and they worked. So I thought that it could work for other incels too, if it worked for me. I don't feel that I am one of very exceptions to the rule, unless I am?

I don't believe you are. Lots of people struggle with how to connect and find partners and most of them are able to gradually learn how to do better in that regard even if for some it never becomes easy.

People who don't learn a successful approach but instead only learn unsuccessful approaches and then double-down on them and the shoddy logic behind them have lots of rationalizations for why their logic is right, but how correct can it be when it only leads to disappointing outcomes?

Obviously people can try to grow like you did, but if they've stuffed their head with guano and constantly look for anything that reinforces those views while ignoring everything that contradicts those views it's going to take a lot to make them reconsider if that sort of growth is actually possible and achievable. Making that effort requires stepping out of one's comfort zone which makes a lot of people quick to veto plans that involve it and revert to making excuses.

Sort of. Such drugs existed since the 1980's: the SSRI's. Serotonin and cortisol are adversary molecules: cortisol almost always drowns out serotonin. But by elevating levels of serotonin, a happiness hormone, their ratio changes. So you come off as alpha. After all, alpha males have plenty of reasons to be happy---they're genetically desirable, so nature and society literally cater to most of their needs. So when women see you genuinely happy---even if from SSRI's---they mistake you for an alpha.

I remember when I took my Effexor in the evening, then drank vodka shortly after, having forgotten I wasn't supposed to mix them, and went to a club that night. I was a beast! I French kissed and fondled a woman I never expected to show interest in me in a million years. The bartender looked totally shell-shocked when I went to buy a beer after he saw me on the dance floor.

SSRIs are prescribed to treat depression and anxiety. Those mental health issues can impair some people's ability to participate in relationships, but that's not what the alpha/beta/sigma/omega meme tries to warp that into.

But as far as stress producing cortisol which women are possibly not attracted to goes, can beta males train themselves not to go through stress? For example, when a woman rejects me, I just forget about it. Move onto the next one. I can't even remember the ones that rejected me, because my brain dismisses them immediately after, and I move on. Unless most betas cannot think this way?

I was born with a lot of "disadvantages."

I've been able to transcend them to some degree.

I'm a short man who is rather nerdy and rather clumsy, while not dressing all that well----yet I've had many women be attracted to me.

I wouldn't say that I'm an "exemplar" of the "beta male"----but I believe, under the erroneous alpha/beta/other Greek letter system, that I'm pretty far from being an "alpha" male.

Still, I actually believe, if I tried, that I could randomly get a date walking over the Brooklyn Bridge within a few days. I don't know this for sure, of course----but this is my belief.

I'm married, though, and I've recently had prostate cancer surgery, so it doesn't make sense to make the effort. I still flirt with my eyes, though

This thread seems to have gone off the rails into personal issues.  Please get back on track or I will ask the mods to lock this thread.  Thank you.

I am RIGHT ON TOPIC. We are talking about the Greek-letter system which "Incels" often invoke when justifying their ideology.

I believe "incels" with a capital "I" live under delusionary conditions, borne out of a lack of contact with the "real world."

One thing about this whole incel culture is that there seems to be a lot more male incels than female but why is that? There is the stereotype that guys are more about looks than women, but are they? If any woman can get laid, that means guys will screw anything so to speak.

But if that's true, then are guys really more about looks than women are, stereotypically?

Just cos people believe in it doesn't mean it's not bullsh!t. And it really doesn't seem that prevalent, even in "NT society", w/e that means.

"Alphas and Betas" makes me think of "vaccines cause autism". It's all based on one report by one guy, who later turned out to be wrong. Some people still buy into it, but it's hardly the prevalent wisdom on the matter.

Aspie1 reminds me a lot of someone else on this forum who used pseudoscience to "cure" an imagined condition

Nobody's attacking nobody! We're not calling each other's names. We're not trashing our opponents. I know I'm not; just because I called myself or another man a beta male doesn't mean I'm trashing them. Being a beta male is as normal and human as being poor; in fact, 80% of men are beta. We're just expressing controversial opinions and uncomfortable truths here, no more, no less.

Chew on this. For decades, we followed Bohr's atom model, where electrons move in defined, energy-specific orbits. Simple, straightforward, certain; right? Until one day, when Heisenberg said there's no way to know an electron's exact path or orbit. And Schrodinger found the math to determine of the probability of the electrons' orbits. Well... Bohr is to atoms as Blue Pill is to dating/women. Heisenberg and Schrodinger are to atoms as the Red Pill is to dating/women. And let's not forget Thomson's god-awful plum pudding atom model, which is like Romeo and Juliet is to dating/women: intriguing but blatantly false. Think about it.

Women are more focused on looks, but are less upfront about it. That is all.

Last edited by Aspie1 on 23 Sep 2021, 8:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.