More Thought on Incels.

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Why are you sighing?

PERSPECTIVE: If you've met one Aspie, you've met one Aspie. However, as different as we all are, statistically speaking, there is an AVERAGE life experience that puts us outside the realm of Neurotypical.

Same with looks.

Really GOOD LOOKING men (statistically speaking) will have loads of women interested.
Average men (statistically speaking) will have some women attracted to them, that's all they need, as you point out.
Ugly men (statistically ugly) will have little-to-no women attracted to them no matter what they do or how hard they try.

Think of all the men you personally rejected. Some may have been AVERAGE and found other women who were interested. Some were ugly and you were just a long string of women who rejected them. Not that you owe them anything, just that you're taking the AVERAGE-looking man's route. Ugly men are rejected by nearly all women. Yes, looks may not be everything, but they are a critical foot-in-the-door factor.

We're the exact same age. Why are you talking about the recent past as if it were centuries ago?? What was the real secret to your success? Learning "game" or, as you say, aging into better looks?

If you were still UGLY...all the "game" in the world would be meaningless.

If you're now in the passable camp, then I think what you've learned has helped. But that knowledge alone wasn't enough to compensate. You need statistically passable looks to have a foot-in-the-door with women. Sounds like (without plastic surgery) you simply aged into passable looks.

You talk alpha/beta as if those are the two binary options. 0 or 1.

Truth is, it's a diamond shape structure. ALPHA minority on top. BETA (passable) majority as a gigantic middle. OMEGA on the bottom.

ALPHAS don't have to struggle or learn anything. They simply exist and get women easily. A BETA's success is predicated on knowledge and confidence. An OMEGA doesn't have a snow cone's chance in hell no matter what he does/doesn't do. Sounds to me that, biologically, you aged out of OMEGA into passable BETA and used your knowledge to attract women. Good for you, but you're glancing over key factors here.

My short ex with a face full of pimples and some psychological issues got another girlfriend in a few months - and he was the one to break up with her.
You're not ugly until you believe you're ugly. People consider attractive not those who are objectively attractive but those who find themselves attractive. That's a secret I observed among teenage girls and confirmed experimentally on myself.

Perhaps.

Psychological issues are actually meaningless, at least in the short-term. Really, really mentally messed up people can still get a foot-in-the-door if their face is aesthetically pleasing. As for your ex, he was obviously of average quality looks if you and another women were interested. Overcoming his acne may even put him in a statistically good-looking category for all I know (not sure what he looked like).

But that's not what I asked you. Didn't ask about your ex's, I asked about men you've rejected.

The guys I actively rejected:
Tall, blond, regular features, un-intellectual.
Short, blond, desperate.
Tall, blond, athletic, nothing in common.
Medium height, athletic, agressive.
Tall, slim, dark, ignoring the fact I'm married.

PS - I did consider my ex ugly. But I really enjoyed endless philosophical discussions with him.

Sounds like you rejected a bunch of "Chad's".

If "Chads" are good looking guys with nothing interesting to say, then yes.

That is the short definition of a Chad certainly.

Oh wow, this thread is...

I've been skimming it recently and I have some thoughts:

Yes, humanity is patriarchal. In comparison, some animals have matriarchal structures such as hyenas or elephants or anglerfish or black widow spiders or praying mantis or bonobos and so on. Looking back on that list, it is surprising how many female animals eat or fuse with their mate after doing the deed, but that's going off-topic.

It's worth noting that evolution isn't a smooth process. A lot of the time it's trial and error. Some animals do have an alpha, beta and omega system. However, consider me naïve, but I don't think such a system directly translates into modern day human society. We don't fight over resources in quite the same way. Rather, we have jobs and acts of service that give us a space in the system. You are unlikely to fight a man over an apple in a park or bare your teeth to show that you were eyeing up that rabbit and you will bite back if they dare take it from you. Or you might, I don't know your life, but chances are you do not act in such ways.

Alpha aggression is great for showing you mean business and that the other males shouldn't bother you, unless they think they can take you. However, there are downsides to being an Alpha of a group. Aggression is not an attractive quality for a female looking for a partner to raise her offspring with. She may mate with the alpha to appease him and then raise the children with a Beta. In regards to street cats, female cats often sleep with all potential male suitors. That way no one knows who the father is, since male cats have a habit of murdering kittens if they believe that the kittens are definitely not their offspring. Being an Alpha also means that you have a bigger target on your back, as the rest of the males may not be happy with you being at the top.

I would argue that Alpha, Beta, Omega systems often tell us more about where males are in relation to one another than their relationships with the opposite sex. So long as you're surviving somewhere in the system, you're probably attractive to someone. I'm not an expert by any means, but I suspect that a great deal of unsuccessful behaviour that is done in an attempt to impress women backfires because although it may impress or intimidate other men, it misses the mark when communicating with women generally speaking.

Granted, I'm no expert in male beauty / what is attractive in men either (I don't think I'm completely clueless, I'm gay not blind, but I have been wrong in my predictions regarding who women will find attractive on reality TV shows before, and I was oblivious to the fact that nearly all the women in a university class I was in had a crush on this guy I briefly talked to once about design work. Apparently he had a whole fan club according to two friends of mine). You'd be better off asking women who like men or men who have been in relationships with women.

I think you can find a girlfriend regardless of how you look. I've seen men in all different shapes and sizes being able to find a girlfriend and being able to find someone to date. I'm not going to pretend to know how they did it, but my guess is that there are many different ways a woman can be potentially attracted to you.

Guys in the incel movement have a tendency to believe that looks are the only thing that matters. Maybe it's because incels have a tendency to be young (under the age of 25), and at that age looks matter more, maybe it's because they're chasing the wrong type of girls. 20 year old sorority girls who just want to drink, party, and hookup, probably care more about physical appearance and would reject the nerdy/incel type. Another reason is because incels may be going after girls that they have nothing in common with. The hot 10/10 sorority girl who's into drinking and partying, probably isn't dating the overweight neckbeard who goes to smash bros and and zombie conventions, right?

I do think that personality and social skills matter, much more than incels like to believe. Being able to communicate effectively is super important! If you can't even talk to a girl, there is very little potential for her to be attracted to you.

The biggest thing a man can do to increase his chances with women is to work on his social and communication skills with women. If a man is good at that, it's only a matter of time before he meets a girl willing to give him a chance.

I'd agree. I'd also suggest that the people who buy into the ideology might be likely to not notice their deficits in those regards and as a result fail to accurately evaluate the root cause of their struggles.

It's not that I'm awkward, quiet and aloof, it's that Chad and Stacy smell my beta status and hate my ugly face.

Last edited by funeralxempire on 24 Sep 2021, 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

What is, "Stupid excuses incels use to divert blame away from themselves"?

I had to laugh at "they smell my beta status" - it's not like people who buy into the redpill incel alpha beta stuff ever actually shut the ever-loving f**k up about it, so it's not like it takes some arcane ancient psychic mental "Alpha Power" to spot it. They literally broadcast their bullsh!t ahead of them with a bullhorn, for all intents and purposes.

It's their Big Excuse. They can't NOT talk about it. "I have to EXPLAIN myself, or they WON'T UNDERSTAND!" To them, they're justifying things - to most other people, it's endless whining excuses and insecurity.

It's not that you're "not Alpha Hott enough" - it's that being around you is like being in a "living with depression" commercial, and you seem to expect me to cure yours for you.

Heh, I know what you mean.  I used to hear a lot of this kind of talk from shipmates on their first liberty call -- the negative lead-in, the request, and then the why-ning: "You probably don't wanna go out with me but, do you wanna go out with me?", followed by "Why won't you go out with me?" or words to that effect.

Some people really DO set themselves up for failure, and then wonder why they fail.

That's true. But ironically, today, Sweden is a feminist utopia and anti-male dystopia, the one that puts the movie "Wicker Man" (google it) to shame.

The Red Pill blogs I study don't recognize the omega concept. They say there's a rigid divide between 20% of alpha males and 80% of beta males. Feminists say that men are a combination of a sperm bank and an ATM. Well, the alpha males are sperm banks, and the beta males are ATM's. Which is true: women want to have sex with alphas and settle down for a stable life with betas. Heck, that the sexual strategy ducks, geese, and swans use. And we're not as different from our animal predecessors as we imagine ourselves to be, the Bible notwithstanding.