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hurtloam
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20 Nov 2018, 11:06 am

Yes, being part of a community that doesn't encourage self improvement is detrimental to oneself. That is a very valid point.

I've had "friends" who have criticised me for job hopping and moving house too often because I need to "settle to be happy". Well guess what? I enjoy having a change of scenery and I've moved around enough to know what I like and what I want and I've now found my niche.

If I had stayed in the same place all my life like they have I wouldn't be happy.

You can't let other people drag you down just because they don't want to change or to seek out new opportunities.

Don't let other people stifle you.


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cberg
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20 Nov 2018, 1:24 pm

Fnord wrote:
cberg wrote:
Thanks for bumping all our real threads to the bottom with more armchair analysis of psychopaths. Please make it stop, we've seen enough about this
Better Idea: Begin a thread of your own that everyone else will want to read and enjoy doing replying to!


:roll: Base reality just can't compete with sensationalist violence.


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Fnord
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20 Nov 2018, 2:20 pm

cberg wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Begin a thread of your own...
Base reality just can't compete with sensationalist violence.
I knew it was too much to ask. Sorry to have embarrassed you.



Fnord
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20 Nov 2018, 2:25 pm

hurtloam wrote:
... being part of a community that doesn't encourage self improvement is detrimental to oneself. That is a very valid point ... You can't let other people drag you down just because they don't want to change or to seek out new opportunities. Don't let other people stifle you.
Ever seen a tub full of live lobsters? If you wait long enough, one will start stretching and reaching for the rim of the tub as if to escape. Almost immediately, the other lobsters will try to pull it back down. After a while, all the lobsters stop trying to escape, and just wander around inside the tub or just stay in one spot.

This is how incels behave. When one of them starts showing independent thought (i.e., saying nice things about women), the others try to drag him back down to their level. Pretty soon, they are all back to bad-mouthing the very women that they wish they could have sex with.

Pathetic, eh?



cberg
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20 Nov 2018, 3:10 pm

Fnord wrote:
cberg wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Begin a thread of your own...
Base reality just can't compete with sensationalist violence.
I knew it was too much to ask. Sorry to have embarrassed you.


You have thoroughly embarrassed all guys, everywhere, by allocating mental energy towards this subject.


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cberg
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20 Nov 2018, 3:15 pm

Fnord wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
... being part of a community that doesn't encourage self improvement is detrimental to oneself. That is a very valid point ... You can't let other people drag you down just because they don't want to change or to seek out new opportunities. Don't let other people stifle you.
Ever seen a tub full of live lobsters? If you wait long enough, one will start stretching and reaching for the rim of the tub as if to escape. Almost immediately, the other lobsters will try to pull it back down. After a while, all the lobsters stop trying to escape, and just wander around inside the tub or just stay in one spot.

This is how incels behave. When one of them starts showing independent thought (i.e., saying nice things about women), the others try to drag him back down to their level. Pretty soon, they are all back to bad-mouthing the very women that they wish they could have sex with.

Pathetic, eh?


Image


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Fnord
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20 Nov 2018, 3:29 pm

cberg wrote:
Fnord wrote:
cberg wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Begin a thread of your own...
Base reality just can't compete with sensationalist violence.
I knew it was too much to ask. Sorry to have embarrassed you.
You have thoroughly embarrassed all guys, everywhere, by allocating mental energy towards this subject.
The only men who should be embarrassed are those for whom everything I've posted is true.

Or, as the saying goes, "If the shoe fits, wear it".



cberg
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20 Nov 2018, 3:40 pm

Well they're demonstrably 100% shameless so that just leaves the rest of us feeling lower.


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XFilesGeek
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20 Nov 2018, 3:58 pm

I prefer not to waste time thinking about incels besides laughing at them, and then moving on.


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Fnord
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20 Nov 2018, 5:41 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
I prefer not to waste time thinking about incels besides laughing at them, and then moving on.
Good point. Now, if only they would just go away...



Stardust Parade
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20 Nov 2018, 6:27 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
I prefer not to waste time thinking about incels besides laughing at them, and then moving on.

^ this



puzzledoll
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20 Nov 2018, 7:04 pm

I actually appreciated how clearly laid out the OP was. I have two boys and I have made sure to teach them to avoid the incel community and red pillers like the plague. The thing is that I'm only one mom and there are a TON of boys out there. I know boys (and men) on the spectrum often struggle finding relationships (and are often naive and trusting) and groups like these can have an alluring draw and a feeling of community that might be lacking elsewhere. The more awareness is raised about the toxicity of these groups the better, at least in my opinion. I'd rather see the topic rehashed than have people run into these groups unaware.



roronoa79
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21 Nov 2018, 11:46 am

The whole incel idea that women are shallow and only care about looks is patently absurd. Men are much more actively conditioned by society to be fixated on looks. It's like the pot calling the kettle black.


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Fnord
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21 Nov 2018, 1:34 pm

puzzledoll wrote:
I actually appreciated how clearly laid out the OP was.
Thank you! I try to put some thought and reason into (most of) my posts, and that one was no exception.
roronoa79 wrote:
The whole incel idea that women are shallow and only care about looks is patently absurd. Men are much more actively conditioned by society to be fixated on looks. It's like the pot calling the kettle black.
There does seem to be a lot of projection in the Incel community.



Mona Pereth
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21 Nov 2018, 10:08 pm

I basically agree with Fnord's post at the start of this thread, at least regarding the online Incel community's wrong beliefs about women.

However, in the case of many autistic men, I don't believe that self-improvement plus changing their beliefs about women would be enough. Depending on how disabled the men are, they may face problems that can be solved only by a hopefully-forthcoming better-organized autistic community than now exists. As I wrote here, in the separate thread How did you start dating?:

Mona Pereth wrote:
shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
How is marriage or dating possible with autism?

A disproportionate number of autistics are unemployed. Have few or zero friends. Have unusual special interests. Have no $$.
Meltdown

These are systematic problems that can be addressed only as a community, not as individuals.

Solving the money problem, for all but a few of us, will require new models of work and employment. (I have some thoughts about this that I'll share later, when I have more time.)

The unusual special interests can be harnessed to help people make friends, at least within the community.

Those who have meltdowns would have fewer of them in a more autistic-friendly world. Yet another problem that can best be solved as a community.

shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
How many austics even want romantic relationship?

Significantly more autistics (especially men) want them than have them. We need to figure out how the community can make this easier.

For those who don't want them, it's not a problem.


Fnord replied:

Fnord wrote:
Personal problems are not community issues.

One person's bad attitude driving other people away? Change the one person's attitude, not the community standards of civil behavior. While there is such a thing a "Mercy Dating", no one is obligated to date a creep.


I replied:

Mona Pereth wrote:
I'm not advocating mercy dating, or the dating of creeps. Please re-read my post. A community can't and shouldn't dictate whom people will date, but can and should help solve various underlying problems.

Autistics, especially autistic men, have trouble finding relationships for many reasons, not all of which boil down to them having bad attitudes or being creeps.

Of course, insofar as they do have bad attitudes, they as individuals do need to change those attitudes too.


Fnord replied:

Fnord wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
A community can't and shouldn't dictate whom people will date, but can and should help solve various underlying problems. ...
Have you read any of the various "I can't get a girlfriend" threads on this website? As a community, many of us have been trying for years to get certain members to change their attitudes with regards to themselves, to women, and to relationships between men and women. And what is the result? We have become their "detractors" only because we keep pushing the idea that they should make the necessary changes to make themselves more attractive to women, instead of expecting the women to be attracted to them first, before they will make the necessary changes.

That old saw about leading horses to water applies to every one of them.


Copying this discussion here to avoid further de-railing of the other thread. I'll respond later.


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