So, What is it We're Missing? (NTs, feel free to join in)

Page 1 of 2 [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

ezbzbfcg2
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 682
Location: New Jersey, USA

20 Nov 2018, 2:46 pm

Generally speaking, how do NTs perceive things? What is it we're missing? I'm not talking about observable outcomes (i.e. "All the NTs seem to become friends so easily, and I'm on the sidelines. They know what to say and when to say it, I open my mouth and people get angry or turn away," etc.)

I'm talking about psychological perspective. What's going on in their minds when these things happen? I know since we're not NT, it's a bit of guesswork, but I'm curious what goes on in their minds in the perception of the world. Hope this post makes sense. Hope for at least one or two insightful answers.

And look, I know we're all individuals and no two minds are exactly alike. But a lot of posts made here by Aspies seem to match my mindset, so there is a commonality to the AS thought process. But what is the NT mindset? I observe the end results in day-to-day life, but have no idea how they're perceiving things.



Pieplup
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2015
Age: 16
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,805
Location: Sinnoh

20 Nov 2018, 2:54 pm

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
Generally speaking, how do NTs perceive things? What is it we're missing? I'm not talking about observable outcomes (i.e. "All the NTs seem to become friends so easily, and I'm on the sidelines. They know what to say and when to say it, I open my mouth and people get angry or turn away," etc.)

I'm talking about psychological perspective. What's going on in their minds when these things happen? I know since we're not NT, it's a bit of guesswork, but I'm curious what goes on in their minds in the perception of the world. Hope this post makes sense. Hope for at least one or two insightful answers.

And look, I know we're all individuals and no two minds are exactly alike. But a lot of posts made here by Aspies seem to match my mindset, so there is a commonality to the AS thought process. But what is the NT mindset? I observe the end results in day-to-day life, but have no idea how they're perceiving things.
Its impossible to explain that i forget the word but its like trying to describe sight to a blind person it's all about perception here's an article discussing it. You can use words to try to describe it but you cant really fully understand it it's one of the flaws in language. And therefore i doubt this thread will have any success. Your probablynot going to get an awnser for that. s


_________________
Ψ-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ψ Pieplup's Art. My YouTube Channel. You can call me pieplup or pie. If you can't see my bright blue text you can highlight it.
Special Interests: Pokémon, and Autism.
Professionally Diagnosed: with PDD-NOS, A.D.H.D., Dysgraphia, and Social Phobia.
Note: i'm not as active anymore feel free to pm me if you want to talk to me. I come on here from time to time with a spurt of activity mainly due to social isolation.

Ψ-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ψ


cberg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,614
Location: Boulder CO

20 Nov 2018, 3:02 pm

I'm bumping this thread in order to observe it. We really do need to define everyone's shortcomings before we can work on these things at all.


_________________
"Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds."
-Georges Lemaitre
"I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface"
-Gem Tos :mrgreen:


ezbzbfcg2
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 682
Location: New Jersey, USA

20 Nov 2018, 3:11 pm

Pieplup wrote:
Its impossible to explain that i forget the word but its like trying to describe sight to a blind person it's all about perception here's an article discussing it. You can use words to try to describe it but you cant really fully understand it it's one of the flaws in language. And therefore i doubt this thread will have any success. Your probablynot going to get an awnser for that. s


The word might be qualia. An individual's perceptions are his/her own and can't be articulated to others.

I understand the thread might be futile and what I'm asking can't be conveyed in words. But it's worth taking a shot for some insight.



BTDT
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,383

20 Nov 2018, 3:13 pm

I know it is fiction, but episode 28 of Young Sheldon presents two sets of intelligence tests, one set in which Sheldon excels in and another in which Missy excels in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Sheldon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayer-Sal ... gence_Test
The Mayer-Salovey-Caruso Emotional Intelligence Test (MSCEIT) is an ability-based measure of emotional intelligence. The test was constructed by academics John D. Mayer, Peter Salovey, and David R. Caruso at Yale and the University of New Hampshire in cooperation with Multi-Health Systems Inc. The test measures emotional intelligence through a series of questions and tests the participant's ability to perceive, use, understand, and regulate emotions. Using questions based on everyday scenarios, the MSCEIT measures how well people respond to social tasks, read facial expressions, and solve emotional problems.



Joe90
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 17,640
Location: Maidstone, UK

20 Nov 2018, 3:31 pm

I don't think my mindset is that much different to NTs. The only thing I wonder is how NTs can stay relaxed and focused when there's a screaming toddler nearby, while I feel like smacking the kid round the head to give it something to cry for. I wish I could have the ability to filter out the dreadful noise of a toddler. Surely you NTs still hear the toddler though, and surely you know how loud it is? Or do the 'filters' stop the ugly noise from making you feel angry or stressed? When there's a screaming toddler near me I cannot ignore it no matter what I do. My whole mind focuses on this horrible brat and I fill up with rage and it drains me because I have to hold it in to avoid losing my dignity and going to prison.


_________________
Female
Aged 29
On antidepressants
Diagnosed with AS, ADHD and anxiety disorder


Arganger
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Apr 2018
Age: 18
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,707
Location: Colorado

20 Nov 2018, 4:25 pm

Joe90 wrote:
I don't think my mindset is that much different to NTs. The only thing I wonder is how NTs can stay relaxed and focused when there's a screaming toddler nearby, while I feel like smacking the kid round the head to give it something to cry for. I wish I could have the ability to filter out the dreadful noise of a toddler. Surely you NTs still hear the toddler though, and surely you know how loud it is? Or do the 'filters' stop the ugly noise from making you feel angry or stressed? When there's a screaming toddler near me I cannot ignore it no matter what I do. My whole mind focuses on this horrible brat and I fill up with rage and it drains me because I have to hold it in to avoid losing my dignity and going to prison.


NTs have the ability to push noises to the back, if something is unpleasant they are physically able to not focus on it. Autistic people with auditory processing issues can't. The ears aren't working together and so the brain cannot decide which information is important. Of course though, it is possible to experience this and be NT.


_________________
Diagnosed autistic level 2, ODD, anxiety, dyspraxic, essential tremors, depression (Doubted), CAPD, hyper mobility syndrome
Suspected; PTSD (Treated, as my counselor did notice), possible PCOS, PMDD, Learning disabilities (Sure of it, unknown what they are), possibly something wrong with immune system (Sick about as much as I'm not) Possible EDS- hyper mobility type (Will be getting tested, suggested by doctor) dysautonomia


jamthis12
Toucan
Toucan

Joined: 12 Oct 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 277
Location: Arizona

21 Nov 2018, 1:44 am

Yeah. Like I take in EVERYTHING at once because my brain is really bad at filtering out useless data from important data. Like if someone walks into a library and I can hear or see them, that'll temporarily distract me. This of course tends to lead to overstimulation, unless I can block it out, with headphones or something, can eventually lead to a meltdown if it gets too bad.


_________________
Rdos: Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 133 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 79 of 200
You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)


Pieplup
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2015
Age: 16
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,805
Location: Sinnoh

21 Nov 2018, 2:19 pm

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
Pieplup wrote:
Its impossible to explain that i forget the word but its like trying to describe sight to a blind person it's all about perception here's an article discussing it. You can use words to try to describe it but you cant really fully understand it it's one of the flaws in language. And therefore i doubt this thread will have any success. Your probablynot going to get an awnser for that. s


The word might be qualia. An individual's perceptions are his/her own and can't be articulated to others.

I understand the thread might be futile and what I'm asking can't be conveyed in words. But it's worth taking a shot for some insight.

that's the word and i'm just making sure you understand it.


_________________
Ψ-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ψ Pieplup's Art. My YouTube Channel. You can call me pieplup or pie. If you can't see my bright blue text you can highlight it.
Special Interests: Pokémon, and Autism.
Professionally Diagnosed: with PDD-NOS, A.D.H.D., Dysgraphia, and Social Phobia.
Note: i'm not as active anymore feel free to pm me if you want to talk to me. I come on here from time to time with a spurt of activity mainly due to social isolation.

Ψ-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ψ


Magna
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jun 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,273

21 Nov 2018, 2:30 pm

When you say from a psychological perspective, I guess I'm not entirely sure what you mean.

Like someone else said I think the biggest difference in my opinion from an "NT brain" and an "ND brain" is processing of stimuli.

An NT brain seems to be able to have environmental monitoring and awareness go on "auto-pilot" ie, work in the background. Most of the time, as humans, we're not literally conscious of the act (before, during and after) of every single breath we take. Most of the time we don't even think about breathing. Or blinking our eyes, or feeling our heartbeat. Those are all things that are happening, but we're not conscious or even aware of them happening.

I think an NT brain can apply that same type of background/auto-pilot to non-threatening external stimuli.

ND brains have trouble with that. My brain wants to focus and maintain continual awareness of external stimuli as much as possible (and even if it's impossible). I'm therefore having to spend a great deal of mental energy on environmental awareness that an NT doesn't.


_________________
"There is no love of living without despair of life." - Albert Camus

"Ain't nothing but a stranger in this world
I'm nothing but a stranger in this world" -Van Morrison

AQ-43 (32-50 indicates a strong likelihood of Asperger syndrome or autism).
EQ-14 out of 80
Rdos: Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 173 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 39 of 200
You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)


League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 23,827
Location: Pacific Northwest

22 Nov 2018, 4:09 am

Arganger wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
I don't think my mindset is that much different to NTs. The only thing I wonder is how NTs can stay relaxed and focused when there's a screaming toddler nearby, while I feel like smacking the kid round the head to give it something to cry for. I wish I could have the ability to filter out the dreadful noise of a toddler. Surely you NTs still hear the toddler though, and surely you know how loud it is? Or do the 'filters' stop the ugly noise from making you feel angry or stressed? When there's a screaming toddler near me I cannot ignore it no matter what I do. My whole mind focuses on this horrible brat and I fill up with rage and it drains me because I have to hold it in to avoid losing my dignity and going to prison.


NTs have the ability to push noises to the back, if something is unpleasant they are physically able to not focus on it. Autistic people with auditory processing issues can't. The ears aren't working together and so the brain cannot decide which information is important. Of course though, it is possible to experience this and be NT.



I have noticed that the only time NTs have sensory issues to children screaming and crying and whining is when they are tired or when they are old. The older you get, the less patience and energy you have.

My Dad has ADHD and he also has issues with this too when he is focusing hard on something. But he is also in his late 60's.


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.


ezbzbfcg2
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 682
Location: New Jersey, USA

22 Nov 2018, 12:57 pm

Pieplup wrote:
that's the word and i'm just making sure you understand it.


There's no need to 'make sure I understand anything.' I said in the OP I know we all think differently, but it's worth taking a shot at asking.

Look, it's cool you've had computers and the Internet and access to info on Asperger's from the cradle. I'm envious. Regardless, live another 20 years and you may find you too question how you perceive the world and wonder just how different it is from what you've imagined...that's social imagination I'm talking about.



ezbzbfcg2
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 682
Location: New Jersey, USA

22 Nov 2018, 1:15 pm

Magna wrote:
When you say from a psychological perspective, I guess I'm not entirely sure what you mean.


All right, I'll give an example (somewhat).

Suppose someone can only see things in gray-scale. To him, the whole world is like a black-and-white movie. He's lacking the ability to see color. And he was born this way and has no idea what true color is.

What is it he's missing?: He'll never understand why people are so appreciative of rainbows. He'll always have to remember the top traffic light means STOP and the bottom light means GO, as all three lights will appear to be the same shade of shiny gray to him. If everyone is wearing a gray shirt, and he comes around wearing a bright neon pink shirt, he won't understand why people stare at him, and won't understand it when they tell him his shirt is LOUD. To him, it looks the same color as everyone else's shirt.

How do you explain color to him? I'm at a loss. But if you can see in color like most people, and if you can envision how he sees the world (which you can if you've ever seen B&W films and TV), you can understand why he doesn't get it but you do.

Now, I'm becoming convinced NTs actually experience things we don't. Not happenings, but perceptions that we're clueless about and that they don't seem able to articulate to us. Maybe they don't even know we're missing it. I'm trying to maybe get a glimpse.

With the man who sees the world in gray-scale, I can't explain blue vs. red. But I could show him a white piece of paper and a jet-black piece of paper. He'd be able to tell they're different shades. I'd then show him a red piece of paper and a blue piece. To him, they may both look like an identical light gray. I'd tell him, to most people, those two pieces of paper look as different from one another as the first set. He still won't understand color, but might start to comprehend how others see things.



RubyWings91
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 6 Nov 2011
Age: 28
Gender: Female
Posts: 378
Location: USA

24 Nov 2018, 12:15 am

Speaking from my personal experiences, I can think of a few differences between people with AS and NTs. There is some of it that I am fairly certain is an Asperger's thing but others might be or could just be a different aspect of what makes me who I am. Either way, there are several factors I can think of that might play a role.

One of the first things that pop's into my mind is the way my mind gathers and processes information. I think that my mind either collects more information than most peoples in relation to their senses or my ability to process it is limited in comparison to the average person. I am easily overwhelmed by my senses, especially sight and sound. Because of this, I am easily overwhelmed, especially in an active environment.

I also know that I process pieces of a picture before I bring it all together. I hyper focus on whatever holds my attention and might miss critical pieces of whats going on around me as a result. My awareness of this problem was the main cause of my fears that kept me from trying to learn how to drive for a long time. This hyper focus issue stands true not only about processing sensory information, but thoughts, recalling things such as tasks that need to be done and, the most obvious as someone with AS, my interests.

I know it takes me slightly longer to think about and react to the world around me, not just sensory information but statements or ideas. This is either because of a slower rate of thinking or that I try to think about everything more deeply than the average person. Either way, it takes me longer to arrive at a conclusion.

Then there is the meltdown. Push me too far, and I can't take it anymore and become an emotional wreck who cant stop themselves from sobbing their eyes out. There comes a point where it can't be stopped. I prefer to have mine in private and consider any public display of them deeply mortifying, as I feel they reflect a complete and utter loss of self control. I know that mine is mild compared to many but this seems to distinguish us from the NTs. It seems that NTs lack this problem and even mistake them for 'Tantrums,' purposeful displays meant to grab attention..

I think that all the factors mentioned above play a role in the social aspects of my AS. With my sensory issues and slow processing speed, there is no way that I can keep up with a conversation at the same rate as the average person. I miss things. On top of that, there's the fact that I can only read cues because I learned them, rather than their being instinctive (and who knows, maybe that problem has something to do with the sensory issues and processing speed too). Trying to keep pace with the people around me in the social situation is exhausting, the more that's going on, the worse that is. All of these factors add to my easily overwhelmed thought processing, making it harder to know how to react to one part of my conversation before I'm being hit with the next.

Often, I don't even have a full reaction to something that happens or a comment someone makes until hours later, when I stop to reflect on the information. Things that I barely even processed at the moment made me feel hurt later. Due to this, I give the illusion of not caring about something or that I am not bothered by negative things people might say or do. Instead, I just haven't had the time to know how much I feel about the situation.

Due to being focused on my own thoughts and interests, I may totally miss when someone else is bringing up something that is important to them. I am not dismissing them as unimportant...it doesn't occur to me to think about just how important it is to keep the topic in this other area. I instinctively try to bend conversations into areas that I am confident discussing. Probably because I've thought about these things so much that I don't need to do so as much at the moment, leaving more room to think about what everyone else is saying. I have been horrified to discover that I offend multiple people this way but still, for the life of me, have trouble figuring out a better approach.

Then there is the constant fear in the back of my mind of what happens if I am pressed to my limit. When I stop and think about it, My meltdowns, despite being relatively rare, have forced me to really consider everything I do. I have to be willing to acknowledge my limits. How much stimuli will it take to push me? What's my sensory limit? My emotional limit? How about from overworking? And a combination of these factors? Am I in danger of reaching that point? This week? Today? Is it about to happen now or can I hold it back for a few minutes? What might I do that could push me too far? Where can I go to do this privately? Can I make it home or am I looking at making a run for the bathroom? What if there's no where to hide?

This stuff is always in the back of my mind. I'm always considering...planning. Large party situations are a very limited thing. Interacting with people in general is exhausting. If other stressors are in effect, I might avoid social situations.

Because, if the people around me witness a meltdown, I know it won't be forgotten. I've seen it. People see this and they change around me or avoid me all together. And this brings up another aspect, secondary to the immediate mental effects. How people treat us and our reactions to said treatment. Who knows how much of our social awkwardness is built over the years through a set of self defense mechanisms to protect us from bullies. In considering the differences between people any sort of disability and the average person, I think that how people treat us for being different and our reactions to that treatment, both short and long term, extremely important factor to take into account.

Well, I'm sure if I thought longer, I could come up with more but this is all I have for now. Hope it gives some ideas.



ezbzbfcg2
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 682
Location: New Jersey, USA

24 Nov 2018, 11:57 am

Thank you for your detailed reply, Ruby. I can relate to almost all of what you're saying, except for the meltdowns. I'm more of the withdrawn type.

Interestingly, you talk about things you might miss due to being overwhelemed by your autistic sensory processing. What I'm trying to ask in this thread, best I can, is what is NT processing like? Oftentimes, we talk about the things that overwhelm us as Aspies, and view NTs as people who don't have these problems, therefore, have the greater ability to socialize. I think, in fact, NTs perceive the whole world differently from us. It isn't simply lack of our problems, I think they have their own sensory perceptions which are never really clarified to us and we don't even take into consideration.

For instance:

RubyWings91 wrote:
On top of that, there's the fact that I can only read cues because I learned them, rather than their being instinctive (and who knows, maybe that problem has something to do with the sensory issues and processing speed too).


Again, you're looking at it from the autistic perspective. You had to learn the cues, you have slower processing speeds. You know what it FEELS like to be autistic, and may assume NTs simply don't have this baggage. While they don't have the baggage, I think it goes a step further. I think they have an entire processing experience different from ours. Even if we could magically get rid of our autistic problems and learn socialization, I think NTs feel things differently than us in ways we can't even begin to imagine. It's hard to explain.