Give me as specific a definition of "Patriarchy" as possible

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The Grand Inquisitor
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06 Dec 2018, 8:59 am

Whenever I hear or see people talking about or defining patriarchy, it's almost always something very vague and abstract like "systemic structures in place to oppress women and elevate men". What are the structures in place? How do they oppress women? How are men benefitting? Why can't you be more specific? We can't tackle any issues if they're going to be presented so broadly. We need to unpack them, examine the specific problem/s and reach resolutions that way rather than describing things so broadly and vaguely that they're neither provable nor falsifiable. It's hard to engage in any kind of meaningful discussion with someone who only speaks in generalities and won't drill down to the core issues. Now I don't believe in the patriarchy idea, but maybe that's because it hasn't been presented in a coherent and objectively verifiable manner. I'm open to accepting that such a thing exists if someone presents a well-made argument or definition, but in my experience it's only abstractions, or examining different outcomes between men and women and insinuating that sexism must be behind it all.


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Piobaire
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06 Dec 2018, 9:04 am

pa·tri·arch·y
/ˈpātrēˌärkē/
noun
a system of society or government in which the father or eldest male is head of the family and descent is traced through the male line.
a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it.
a society or community organized on patriarchal lines.
plural noun: patriarchies

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The Grand Inquisitor
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06 Dec 2018, 9:21 am

Piobaire wrote:
pa·tri·arch·y
/ˈpātrēˌärkē/
noun
a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it.

And this is where we need to get into the specifics. How are women largely excluded from holding power? In what way is the society and government set up in such a way that men hold the power and women are barred from it? What steps could we as a society take to minimize this inequality?

If I wanted a google definition, I could have googled it myself (and have in the past), but it lacks the depth and specificity that I'm looking for.


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BTDT
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06 Dec 2018, 9:25 am

You exclude women by only listening to men. If a women talks a man talks over her. Or only considering her opinion when it is repeated by a man. If a women answers the phone you ask rhetorical questions, questions designed to have no answers. In the hope that she will transfer your call to a man.



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06 Dec 2018, 9:45 am

The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
Give me as specific a definition of "Patriarchy" as possible
I'll give you six.

Patriarchy (noun):

1. A system of society or government in which the father or eldest male is head of the family and descent is traced through the male line (Oxford Dictionary).

2. A system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it (Oxford Dictionary).

3. A society or community organized on patriarchal lines (Oxford Dictionary).

4. A social system in which males hold primary power and predominate in roles of political leadership, moral authority, social privilege and control of property. Some patriarchal societies are also patrilineal, meaning that property and title are inherited by the male lineage (Wikipedia).

5. The bogeyman that feminists blame for women's problems or under-achievements (Urban Dictionary).

6. A term used by feminists to blame men for all of their problems (Urban Dictionary).



kraftiekortie
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06 Dec 2018, 10:08 am

In simple terms, the "Patriarchy" is at least somewhat similar to the "old boys network."



Drake
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06 Dec 2018, 11:21 am

It isn't a real thing in Western countries.



Drake
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06 Dec 2018, 11:29 am

BTDT wrote:
If a women answers the phone you ask rhetorical questions, questions designed to have no answers. In the hope that she will transfer your call to a man.

It would seem a lot simpler to tell her to put a man on the phone. Even if she does put you on the phone to someone else, it could easily be another woman! Or just hang up immediately and ring back shortly after until you get a man.

An interesting situation. Would a company reject a customer who refused to deal with a woman or accommodate them? I'm guessing the latter more often than not. The more customers the company has, the more it benefits the company, and thus the people working for it, including the woman on the phone who got rejected.



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06 Dec 2018, 11:39 am

It's one of those words that has been abused to the point of farce. Just like anyone to the right of Lenin is now a card-carrying Nazi.


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06 Dec 2018, 11:49 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
In simple terms, the "Patriarchy" is at least somewhat similar to the "old boys network."


That definition makes the most sense.

But you do get feminists who use it more broadly than that to the point it has become an almost meaningless buzzword. It's a lazy thing to say in a lot of things I've read, and I do read quite a bit of feminist articles and blogs.


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Fnord
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06 Dec 2018, 12:06 pm

Mikah wrote:
It's one of those words that has been abused to the point of farce. Just like anyone to the right of Lenin is now a card-carrying Nazi.
... and anyone who is left of Trump is now a card-carrying Communist.
hurtloam wrote:
... you do get feminists who use it more broadly than that to the point it has become an almost meaningless buzzword...
... and you get people who use "feminist" so broadly that it has also become a meaningless buzzword.



Wolfram87
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06 Dec 2018, 2:28 pm

Fnord wrote:
... and you get people who use "feminist" so broadly that it has also become a meaningless buzzword.


From what I've heard from feminists; everyone can have their own feminism, and it's still the same thing as itself, even when it's internally contradictory.


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Sweetleaf
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06 Dec 2018, 4:59 pm

The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
Piobaire wrote:
pa·tri·arch·y
/ˈpātrēˌärkē/
noun
a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it.

And this is where we need to get into the specifics. How are women largely excluded from holding power? In what way is the society and government set up in such a way that men hold the power and women are barred from it? What steps could we as a society take to minimize this inequality?

If I wanted a google definition, I could have googled it myself (and have in the past), but it lacks the depth and specificity that I'm looking for.


Well what region of the world are you talking about first of all, because it varies. In a lot of places things have improved and and women aren't as excluded they have gained equal rights like the U.S. In some places they are closer to gaining equal rights and in some places they are still pretty oppressed. So really it kind of depends on what part region you focus on.

Also as for how society is set up that way, it depends on which society. Here in the U.S one can look at the history, there was a time women were not allowed to vote, it was legal for husbands to beat their wives so long as they didn't use a rod over a certain thickness and also it was not a crime for a man to force his wife to have sex. Obviously things have improved greatly since those times but there still are problems.

I think some of those problems can negatively affect males to. I don't believe there is a vast female conspiracy to oppress men and turn it into the opposite of a patriarchy or anything like that. But I'd say the patriarchy encourages a specific male image, that males are supposed to follow...like it used to be they go to work, they are the leaders/politicians ect they provide and the woman stays home, raises the kids and cleans. A lot of people still sort of have that attitude even if they aren't consciously trying to enforce a patriarchy society as a whole has not let go of those views. So that is one issue.

Pressuring people to identify with a certain gener role because of their sex, is only one problem...though there are a lot more, which I don't have time to go into right now, but hopefully some more people will participate, with some more specifics.


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