Why America is the World’s First Poor Rich Country

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techstepgenr8tion
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09 Dec 2018, 2:00 pm

This could be my tilt but, considering how I've had to struggle to get by - even graduating college highest honors, even having an IQ in the 120's range, it's not that I haven't tried - it's more like I've found out how active the 'devil take the hindmost' aspect of things is. We don't really care about cultivating talent in a lot of places, likely more often we see it as a threat to our own survival if we're in that person's path to rise and so we play knowledge-keepaway games in the workplace, especially if we have our own niche software for accounting or the like that the person's college education can't prepare them to know inside out.

I've really had to take a much more Hobbesian view of life, again (had this in my early 20's when I had something like a full social relapse of high school at a place I worked), and I have to circle back to the sense that humanity lives with an underlying primal hatred that it seems like a large part of the animal kingdom shares, ie. kill anything that looks like me, wants the same food, might want the same job or same kind of partner, and that primal hatred just gets masked in this non-stop game of never-serious joking, evasion, and refusal to deal with problems (the nod-nod wink-wink in that seems to be that a lot of the problems are benefiting certain people and if they are they need to stay).

This is where I do think our current intellectual elite got so infatuated with their credentials, started rubber-stamping themselves in the Ivy League schools, and in that sort of generic elite-making machine actual talent and natural ability got lost along the way and replaced by entitlement. This is one of those areas where I do believe that current social media, for all of it's known problems, also gives the freakish natural talents, ie. the Goethe's of our generation, the ability to cut through the bureaucratic red tape and actually be heard. I really hope something does come of that, ie. superior ideas on economics and incentives or tweaks/tuning to culture should have enough impetus that, if launched right, they'll infect our way of doing things for practical reasons and anyone whose benefiting from shortfalls in the way of these things would have a difficult time stopping a change if it's coming up from the bottom.

I think one thing is urgent - unless we want the next decade to be a decade of pogroms in the west we absolutely have to untether economic success and 'right to live'. That sort of ugly stick might have worked when there were gainful jobs available for everyone (ie. jobs that they could make ends meet on) but that's rapidly becoming a thing of the past. I get a bit horrified to when my parents or close family members, if I mention UBI go 'gasp!! But that's... socialism!'. I ask em what their answer is to the notion that if we hit high enough unemployment numbers, ie. above 20% somewhere or beyond, that we'll have the worst kind of political revolution - they won't follow that line of thought and instead just say 'work hard and outrun em!'. What grieves the heck out of me is they're really decent people otherwise but it's like the Stockholm syndrome on this one goes all the way to their core and back out. This whole thing is still running on a lot of self-delusion for a lot of people and if anything it's not getting knocked out of enough people fast enough.


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LoveNotHate
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09 Dec 2018, 5:20 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I have a friend who lived entirely by working fast food jobs years ago. He ended up with medical bills that left him no choice but to go bankrupt. He was not irresponsible with his money, but was a victim of circumstance. There are more Americans in such situations than I think you appreciate.

Tell him to sign up for subsidized ACA.


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LoveNotHate
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09 Dec 2018, 5:23 pm

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
Productivity in the USA has tripled over the last 30 years, but wages have been totally flat. With inflation, wages have actually dropped. And, tricking people out of their money is possibly the world's first-oldest profession -- i.e. loansharking. If a Wall Street bank does it, it's genius, but if a guy in a seedy pool hall does the same it's a crime. And there are good reasons for usury to be illegal.

The important statistic to look at is "foreign productivity".

Foreign productivity increased MUCH, MUCH faster than American productivity, so we actually had a HUGE relative decrease in productivity. Therefore, rightfully, our wages should have gone down.

Labor productivity per hour worked in China from 2000 to 2018 (in 2017 U.S. dollars*) .. between 2000-2018 Chinese productivity increased 5 times
https://www.statista.com/statistics/878 ... -per-hour/


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Kraichgauer
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09 Dec 2018, 9:36 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I have a friend who lived entirely by working fast food jobs years ago. He ended up with medical bills that left him no choice but to go bankrupt. He was not irresponsible with his money, but was a victim of circumstance. There are more Americans in such situations than I think you appreciate.

Tell him to sign up for subsidized ACA.


That had happened to him long before there was an ACA.


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09 Dec 2018, 10:05 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Do you realize that not all Americans are rich? American families living in trailer parks and government assistant housing who live off of little income from working their asses off doing blue collar jobs do not live that kind of lifestyle you just described.

We may be more wealthy compared to third world countries but you still have Americans who can't afford food or health care.

Calling all Americans rich is BS.

Americans have the world's highest ...

-average household net-adjusted disposable income per capita
-average household net financial wealth per capita
http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/income/

Average income can be misleading.

If I had 10 people in a room. 1 person has $50, and the rest have $1 each. The average would be $5.10.


Median income and median wealth are much more useful for this subject.



LoveNotHate
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10 Dec 2018, 12:12 am

RushKing wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
TW1ZTY wrote:
Do you realize that not all Americans are rich? American families living in trailer parks and government assistant housing who live off of little income from working their asses off doing blue collar jobs do not live that kind of lifestyle you just described.

We may be more wealthy compared to third world countries but you still have Americans who can't afford food or health care.

Calling all Americans rich is BS.

Americans have the world's highest ...

-average household net-adjusted disposable income per capita
-average household net financial wealth per capita
http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/income/

Average income can be misleading.

If I had 10 people in a room. 1 person has $50, and the rest have $1 each. The average would be $5.10.


Median income and median wealth are much more useful for this subject.

The avg would be $5.90 ($50 + $9) = $59/10 = 5.90

However, whether mean or median is better depends on the data and what you're trying to present.

Both have advantages and disadvantages.

The reason I think they used "mean" (average) here, is because a "household" can have one member or several family members producing income, so they decided to average that out.

A median is likely skewed by the number of family members in the home (i.e., more family members, more income).


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RushKing
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10 Dec 2018, 6:01 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
RushKing wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Americans have the world's highest ...

-average household net-adjusted disposable income per capita
-average household net financial wealth per capita
http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/income/

Average income can be misleading.

If I had 10 people in a room. 1 person has $50, and the rest have $1 each. The average would be $5.10.


Median income and median wealth are much more useful for this subject.

The avg would be $5.90 ($50 + $9) = $59/10 = 5.90

However, whether mean or median is better depends on the data and what you're trying to present.

Both have advantages and disadvantages.

The reason I think they used "mean" (average) here, is because a "household" can have one member or several family members producing income, so they decided to average that out.

A median is likely skewed by the number of family members in the home (i.e., more family members, more income).

We should only be averaging the income or wealth of the individual family unit. With that we would at least be able to extrapolate something, by considering the median number of people in a household. This is useless data in the context of this discussion.



Piobaire
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auntblabby
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13 Dec 2018, 12:51 am

if i'd wanted to live in a decent functioning representative democracy and not a quasi-fascist oligarchy, i'd have incarnated in northern Europe or one of the commonwealth nations.



sly279
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13 Dec 2018, 2:53 am

Well luckily Obama isn’t in power anymore so we are free from his quasi-fascist oligarchy



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13 Dec 2018, 12:15 pm

sly279 wrote:
Well luckily Obama isn’t in power anymore so we are free from his quasi-fascist oligarchy


No, we only have Trump's fascistic cult of personality. Well, till Mueller sends him up the river.


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18 Dec 2018, 10:31 pm

^^"the race to the bottom."



Kraichgauer
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18 Dec 2018, 11:19 pm

auntblabby wrote:
^^"the race to the bottom."


Sadly so. :(


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20 Dec 2018, 1:04 am

the only reason Leona Helmsley was imprisoned is because she opened her gob about how "only the little people pay taxes."