Elizabeth Warren Running for President in 2020

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Jakki
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29 Sep 2019, 4:58 pm

EzraS wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I thought half the hispanic community in America think they are white? SO driving a pickup truck with a rifle in the back and wearing a "I'm with stupid" t shirt covering tasteless tattoos doesn't make you white?


Have you ever tried making a post that isn't something negative about white people?


Prejudice agaist white people is a myth

In reality the so-called progressives get off on hating just as much as anyone else does.

They like to feel superior as well.


Well reading this shows , what appears to be a limited point of veiw about
Prejudice against caucasians, having lived through such experiences repeatedly . As a aspie . Seen larger groups of blacks and hispanics verbally
Harassing . Myself . Over periods of years and even in medical institutions.
Was astounded and did not want to acknowledge such behaviors . Inspite of it happening to myself at the moment. Having been a us veteran and engaged services to help me physically and mentally and local va hospital .
Upon seeking and getting admission to mental health dept. Was tormented and neglected ,similiar in physical therapy, by black hospital employees . During a time of extreme abject stress was having to endure , noted :,at the time not a single hispanic or other racial type on the floor . Noted :only other woman at this time, admitted ,was black and given utmost consideration . When are we going to be humans in reality and not figment of someones ingrained predjudices . :skull:


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Jakki
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29 Sep 2019, 5:10 pm

Jakki wrote:
EzraS wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I thought half the hispanic community in America think they are white? SO driving a pickup truck with a rifle in the back and wearing a "I'm with stupid" t shirt covering tasteless tattoos doesn't make you white?


Have you ever tried making a post that isn't something negative about white people?


Prejudice agaist white people is a myth

In reality the so-called progressives get off on hating just as much as anyone else does.

They like to feel superior as well.


Well reading this shows , what appears to be a limited point of veiw about
Prejudice against caucasians, having lived through such experiences repeatedly . As a aspie . Seen larger groups of blacks and hispanics verbally
Harassing . Myself . Over periods of years and even in medical institutions.
Was astounded and did not want to acknowledge such behaviors . Inspite of it happening to myself at the moment. Having been a us veteran and engaged services to help me physically and mentally and local va hospital .
Upon seeking and getting admission to mental health dept. Was tormented and neglected ,similiar in physical therapy, by black hospital employees . During a time of extreme abject stress was having to endure , noted :,at the time not a single hispanic or other racial type on the floor . Noted :only other woman at this time, admitted ,was black and given utmost consideration . When are we going to be humans in reality and not figment of someones ingrained predjudices . :skull:

This is certainly not to say white on white b s doesnt exist . WhiteNeighbors finding out was now a widow . And had autism made me a target for all neighbors uneducated adults chrildren to find new and unique methods to extort or steal from me. And interrupt any physical help tried to employ outside of them. And occasionally working as team to do this . As they appeared according to police to be distantly related somehow . Supposably middleclass neighborhood. That in laws had built this home in .


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cyberdad
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29 Sep 2019, 7:08 pm

EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I thought half the hispanic community in America think they are white? SO driving a pickup truck with a rifle in the back and wearing a "I'm with stupid" t shirt covering tasteless tattoos doesn't make you white?


Have you ever tried making a post that isn't something negative about white people?


My point is millions of non-white hispanics self-identify as white...the worst are Dominicans and Cubans who are clearly part black ancestry but choose to self-identify as white/hispanic or white.


Not all Dominicans are part black (like my aunt). I know some who are fair skinned with brown and even blond hair.

But what is your point? And why the goofy disparaging description of white people? I have to be perfectly honest and say that I often think "wtf is with this guy"? when it comes to you and race, which you go on and on ad infinitum about.


The problem with race is all pervasive but a social taboo which is why forums offer an opportunity to break down stereotypes.

If you read my earlier point I was actually supporting your premise that people can self-identify as whoever they want. It's your lived experience that that denotes who you identify with rather than the one-drop rule which was once so popular/all pervasive in your country and mine up to the 1970s. It's only when the US ditched racial laws that they became embarrassed by South Africa who continued to follow their one drop rule up to the early 1990s (apartheid) and you had segregationists in the south of the US who retained policies even to this day designed to keep white communities homogeneous.

People need to deal with their demons....



EzraS
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29 Sep 2019, 10:32 pm

cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I thought half the hispanic community in America think they are white? SO driving a pickup truck with a rifle in the back and wearing a "I'm with stupid" t shirt covering tasteless tattoos doesn't make you white?


Have you ever tried making a post that isn't something negative about white people?


My point is millions of non-white hispanics self-identify as white...the worst are Dominicans and Cubans who are clearly part black ancestry but choose to self-identify as white/hispanic or white.


Not all Dominicans are part black (like my aunt). I know some who are fair skinned with brown and even blond hair.

But what is your point? And why the goofy disparaging description of white people? I have to be perfectly honest and say that I often think "wtf is with this guy"? when it comes to you and race, which you go on and on ad infinitum about.


The problem with race is all pervasive but a social taboo which is why forums offer an opportunity to break down stereotypes.

If you read my earlier point I was actually supporting your premise that people can self-identify as whoever they want. It's your lived experience that that denotes who you identify with rather than the one-drop rule which was once so popular/all pervasive in your country and mine up to the 1970s. It's only when the US ditched racial laws that they became embarrassed by South Africa who continued to follow their one drop rule up to the early 1990s (apartheid) and you had segregationists in the south of the US who retained policies even to this day designed to keep white communities homogeneous.

People need to deal with their demons....


I do not recall giving a premise that people can self-identify as whoever they want on legal documents.

When someone lies about being a minority in a way that affirmative action might work for them that is deception plain and simple.

And all the secnario handsprings you perform won't change that.

If someone is actually of mixed race, like my cousins, then yes they can call themselves one significant part or the other. Often though like with my adult cousin he writes Asian/Caucasian, or some variation thereof.

As for a Hispanic person if their heritage is predominantly Western European calling themselves white, how is that in anyway the same as a 99% while person claiming to be a minority on a signed legal document?

Of course affirmative action is pretty much what makes this an issue in the first place.



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30 Sep 2019, 9:24 am

EzraS wrote:
When someone lies about being a minority in a way that affirmative action might work for them that is deception plain and simple.
And all the secnario handsprings you perform won't change that. .

Sorry to rain on your parade but there is a legal precedence.
In Australia a person does not have to have one drop of indigenous blood to be considered indigenous
So long as you identify as indigenous and are accepted by a local elder (not really that hard to do) then you are native.

In 2011 Australian journalist Andrew Bolt famously denounced white aboriginals as deceiving the government to obtain affirmative action benefits. He was charged under the Australian criminal code Section 18C discrimination act
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-28/ ... ct/3025918

In this spirit I believe Elizabeth Warren is entitled to self-identify as native, she gains no special benefits and really she doesn't need your permission or (for that matter) racist republicans (who frankly don't care about the welfare of native people).

I also believe (in contradiction to many African Americans) that Rachel Dolziel is entitled to call herself black. I especially enjoy seeing white racists squirm when they see one of their own become transracial :lol:



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30 Sep 2019, 10:35 am

cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
When someone lies about being a minority in a way that affirmative action might work for them that is deception plain and simple.
And all the secnario handsprings you perform won't change that. .

Sorry to rain on your parade but there is a legal precedence.
In Australia a person does not have to have one drop of indigenous blood to be considered indigenous
So long as you identify as indigenous and are accepted by a local elder (not really that hard to do) then you are native.

In 2011 Australian journalist Andrew Bolt famously denounced white aboriginals as deceiving the government to obtain affirmative action benefits. He was charged under the Australian criminal code Section 18C discrimination act
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-09-28/ ... ct/3025918

In this spirit I believe Elizabeth Warren is entitled to self-identify as native, she gains no special benefits and really she doesn't need your permission or (for that matter) racist republicans (who frankly don't care about the welfare of native people).

I also believe (in contradiction to many African Americans) that Rachel Dolziel is entitled to call herself black. I especially enjoy seeing white racists squirm when they see one of their own become transracial :lol:


Too bad that's not the case here in the United States or you just might might have a case. But tell you what, if you can convince the United Indians of All Tribes Foundation to accept everyone as an Indian then you'll have something. Start making phone calls and writing letters.You can become the Greta Thunberg of this matter.



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30 Sep 2019, 11:07 am

Wait....Something is wrong with this story?
According to the NY times -
Cherokee Nation leaders said after Warren's DNA test results that Ms. Warren seemed to subscribe to the idea that tribal citizenship is determined by blood (she had 6-10% native ancestry), which some leaders reject in favor of a view that citizenship is “rooted in centuries of culture and laws,” a spokeswoman for Cherokee Nation said at the time.

But they then claimed Ms. Warren shouldn’t have identified as a Native American. “She is not a person of color or a citizen of a tribe

It sounds like the Cherokee nation are legitimately confused on three levels
i) they object to Warren revealing her DNA ancestry?
ii) they claim citizenship should not be based on blood
iii) citizenship is rooted in centuries of culture

But then they say
iv) she is not a person of color??

Since when does the Cherokee nation decide who is a person of color??
Does this mean people who self-identify as Native American in the USA need approval from some self-imposed bureaucratic organisation even if they have native American ancestry??

At one point does one transform from a white person to a person of color? is their some type of % blood rule here that they make up? Conversely doesn't a black person who is adopted by white parents and grows up in a white neighborhood not have the right to call themselves white? or do they have to look passable white like your Dominican aunt?

something is really screwed up by your the racist legacy of your government



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30 Sep 2019, 11:42 am

She has 1/1250 or whatever. Like most Europeans. She's a white woman who lied.


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30 Sep 2019, 11:56 am

cyberdad wrote:
Wait....Something is wrong with this story?
According to the NY times -
Cherokee Nation leaders said after Warren's DNA test results that Ms. Warren seemed to subscribe to the idea that tribal citizenship is determined by blood (she had 6-10% native ancestry), which some leaders reject in favor of a view that citizenship is “rooted in centuries of culture and laws,” a spokeswoman for Cherokee Nation said at the time.

But they then claimed Ms. Warren shouldn’t have identified as a Native American. “She is not a person of color or a citizen of a tribe

It sounds like the Cherokee nation are legitimately confused on three levels
i) they object to Warren revealing her DNA ancestry?
ii) they claim citizenship should not be based on blood
iii) citizenship is rooted in centuries of culture

But then they say
iv) she is not a person of color??

Since when does the Cherokee nation decide who is a person of color??
Does this mean people who self-identify as Native American in the USA need approval from some self-imposed bureaucratic organisation even if they have native American ancestry??


At one point does one transform from a white person to a person of color? is their some type of % blood rule here that they make up? Conversely doesn't a black person who is adopted by white parents and grows up in a white neighborhood not have the right to call themselves white? or do they have to look passable white like your Dominican aunt?

something is really screwed up by your the racist legacy of your government


i) No they are saying she should not have been calling herself an Indian. All her DNA test did was confirm what many knew all along, that she is not an Indian.
ii) I think they are tired of Indian wannabes like Warren coming out of the woodwork. I remember once reading a list of things not to do while at a tribal craft fair. One of those was not to pester them by telling them that you are 1/12th Cher-o-kee Indian.
iii) Means your parents, grandparents, great-grandparents etc were members of the Cherokee Nation. That you have an actual deep rooted cultural lineage with them. You are intimately versed in all their traditions and customs because you were raised in them.
iv) She is obviously not a person of color.

cyberdad wrote:
Since when does the Cherokee nation decide who is a person of color??
Does this mean people who self-identify as Native American in the USA need approval from some self-imposed bureaucratic organisation even if they have native American ancestry??


They were not making a decision, they were just sating a fact.
The Cherokee Nation gets to decide who they consider to be a member of the Cherokee Nation. That includes Native Americans who are not Cherokee.

cyberdad wrote:
At one point does one transform from a white person to a person of color? is their some type of % blood rule here that they make up? Conversely doesn't a black person who is adopted by white parents and grows up in a white neighborhood not have the right to call themselves white? or do they have to look passable white like your Dominican aunt?


A person has the right to call themselves any ethnicity they want. Whether or not anyone else recognizes them as such is another matter. My Dominican aunt looks almost as much black as she looks Spanish. But that is because of Haitian lineage, rather than African American black. I see a lot of people who are East Indian who are very dark skinned, are they also black? Black pretty much means African American here. And if an African American child is raised by Irish American parents, he is still African American aka Black. Although I would imagine he would be considered an honorary Irishman if he so desired.

Btw, a non-Cherokee can become an honorary member of the Cherokee Nation.

I am hoping for the day when no one cares about skin color. There is more to what someone is as far as their heritage goes than the color of their skin. I am Swiss and Irish, but just because I am white, that doesn't make me German and Swedish as well.



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30 Sep 2019, 7:06 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
She has 1/1250 or whatever. Like most Europeans. She's a white woman who lied.


Wrong...her DNA test estimates 6-10% which is quite substantial



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30 Sep 2019, 7:25 pm

EzraS wrote:
i) No they are saying she should not have been calling herself an Indian. All her DNA test did was confirm what many knew all along, that she is not an Indian.
ii) I think they are tired of Indian wannabes like Warren coming out of the woodwork. I remember once reading a list of things not to do while at a tribal craft fair. One of those was not to pester them by telling them that you are 1/12th Cher-o-kee Indian.
iii) Means your parents, grandparents, great-grandparents etc were members of the Cherokee Nation. That you have an actual deep rooted cultural lineage with them. You are intimately versed in all their traditions and customs because you were raised in them.


I am not sure the Cherokee nation have this right?

We had a famous Australian sports star named Jason Gillespie who was adopted. When he searched for his biological parents he was shocked to find he had a distant ancestor who was aboriginal. He did a DNA test and he was around 10% indigenous (not much more than Warren). he also looked white.

Like Elizabeth Warren he began to self-identify as indigenous and was eagerly accepted by the aboriginal land council in South Australia as indigenous. There was none of this crap about him trying to get benefits or whether he was too white.

I would have thought the Cherokee nation should be less concerned by % points on a DNA test and more concerned about reaching out to Elizabeth Warren as an ally?



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30 Sep 2019, 10:51 pm

cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
i) No they are saying she should not have been calling herself an Indian. All her DNA test did was confirm what many knew all along, that she is not an Indian.
ii) I think they are tired of Indian wannabes like Warren coming out of the woodwork. I remember once reading a list of things not to do while at a tribal craft fair. One of those was not to pester them by telling them that you are 1/12th Cher-o-kee Indian.
iii) Means your parents, grandparents, great-grandparents etc were members of the Cherokee Nation. That you have an actual deep rooted cultural lineage with them. You are intimately versed in all their traditions and customs because you were raised in them.


I am not sure the Cherokee nation have this right?

We had a famous Australian sports star named Jason Gillespie who was adopted. When he searched for his biological parents he was shocked to find he had a distant ancestor who was aboriginal. He did a DNA test and he was around 10% indigenous (not much more than Warren). he also looked white.

Like Elizabeth Warren he began to self-identify as indigenous and was eagerly accepted by the aboriginal land council in South Australia as indigenous. There was none of this crap about him trying to get benefits or whether he was too white.

I would have thought the Cherokee nation should be less concerned by % points on a DNA test and more concerned about reaching out to Elizabeth Warren as an ally?


Well you know I am not a spokesperson for the Cherokee Nation. I am just offering my opinion and interpretation. If you want an official response you will have to take it up with them.

Did not Warren herself apologize and basically resend her former claim of being an American Indian?



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01 Oct 2019, 10:04 am

Well based on the their irrational response; she probably rescinded her claim to avoid offending the Cherokee and associated Native American organisations.

Opportunity missed for them.



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01 Oct 2019, 10:15 am

cyberdad wrote:
Well based on the their irrational response; she probably rescinded her claim to avoid offending the Cherokee and associated Native American organisations.

Opportunity missed for them.


How so?



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01 Oct 2019, 10:19 am

One more question cyberdad, if it is okay for a person to self identify as another race, is it okay for a white person identifying as black to wear blackface?