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Crimadella
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28 Jan 2019, 5:49 pm

Apparently 'gender' has been separated from 'sex' within biology. It would be nice to get some professional input, perhaps from a gender biologist. I would have never thought it would come to this, it really makes no sense to separate the two in my opinion. Such illogical points of view or science if you want to call it that. I've had a long conversation to lead me to this understanding, plus I looked it up and scientists really are confused here. As far as I can understand and others have told me, science can't really give an answer, therefor humans may choose which 'gender' they are while what sex they are is a fixed situation. Here are my questions.

1) What words do we use to identify the 'sex' of a human? Woman, Man, Female, male???

2) Do we just pick what gender we prefer to be called or does science actually have an answer and your opinion doesn't matter, like the rest of the confirmed sciences?

3) Since monkeys can't tell us what they identify as, how do we decide what gender they are?

With current science, it seems like I can choose to identify as a 'female' even though I am a 'man' and like women, does that mean I am a 'straight Man female lesbian'? I'm seriously asking, it's fun to make jokes, 1-3 are serious questions.



Last edited by Crimadella on 28 Jan 2019, 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Crimadella
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28 Jan 2019, 6:59 pm

I just did some reading, skeptics do exist on the topic. I don't even call that science. That is 'political science', sex identifies 'actual biological sex' while gender has been morphed in to an opinion piece. Still would love some input though. There seems to be only political reasoning behind actually separating the two. Shame on science for bowing to morons! You're not supposed to have to ask an animal what it identifies as to determine its gender. All they did was change the definition of gender to bow to political morons. I'm not the only one who criticizes it either, it's apparently criticized within the science community.

Sex = biological, male and female
Gender = An opinion piece, one's internal, personal sense of being a man or woman (or a boy or a girl)

In many countries the science community relies on real science to answer the question about the monkey's gender, it's the same as its biological sex. In these countries, sex and gender are but two words to describe the same thing.
Gender = Sex

Science doesn't care about your opinion of what gender you identify as, it tells you what gender you are. This bunk science can't give you an answer of what gender the monkey is, real science tells you its gender is its biological sex.



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28 Jan 2019, 9:10 pm

Sex is determined primarily by the presence or absence of a Y chromosome. It is a fixed bipolar condition -- an organism is either cis-male or cis-female, although sometimes embryonic development goes awry and hermaphroditic or ambisexual organisms are produced.

Gender is determined by environmental, social, and epigenetic conditions. A person can be born an "XY" male and identify as female, or be born an "XX" female and identify as male. A person can also identify anywhere in between "Pure Macho" and "Pure Girly" on a continuous spectrum. A person can identify as male and be attracted to men, just as a woman can identify as female and be attracted to women. And then there is bisexuality, polyamoury, and a host of other identities that can get really confusing.

So, what does all of this mean?

Everything and nothing, it seems. 'Everything' in that there is a multitude of identities that people can have; and 'Nothing' because it really is possible to appreciate ALL of the differences in every one of us.

It also means that 'Sex' and 'Gender' should not be taken or expressed as synonymous. 'Sex' is your reproductive aspect, while 'Gender' is your spiritual / social / expressive aspect.



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28 Jan 2019, 9:19 pm

It may less confusing to consider gender and sexual attraction to be independent variables.



karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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28 Jan 2019, 9:27 pm

BTDT wrote:
It may less confusing to consider gender and sexual attraction to be independent variables.


Exactly. There are trans people who are gay (attracted to the gender they identify as) and trans people who are straight (attracted to the opposite gender of that they identify with), and trans people who are bisexual (attracted to both binary genders) or pansexual (attracted to all genders/agendered/genderqueer people) just like there are straight and gay and bisexual and pansexual cisgender people. It's not as complicated or misunderstood as you are making it out to be.

Just be honest and say you don't understand what transgender is and you're afraid of what you don't understand, because that is all you're communicating here.



Crimadella
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28 Jan 2019, 9:52 pm

Thanks for the input. I still see it as bunk science though, nothing will change that so I respectfully agree to disagree. It was political motivation to change the definition and is not completely accepted among the science community. I wish everyone could just stick to real biological science where both gender and sex are the same thing. I understand humans have preference, and that preference changes from person to person, they should choose a different word that hasn't been widely accepted to indicate the sex or gender of an individual. If taken to an extreme you could create hundreds of 'genders', and when applied to other species the system falls apart and gender cannot be scientifically determined. I'm all for gay rights and all, I'm not for changing scientific words to appeal to peoples personal taste.

Still though, thanks for sharing your opinions.



karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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28 Jan 2019, 9:54 pm

LOL "No evidence will change my preconceived misinformed notions."

Well, it's good you know that about yourself. :lol:



Crimadella
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28 Jan 2019, 9:59 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
LOL "No evidence will change my preconceived misinformed notions."

Well, it's good you know that about yourself. :lol:



See, that's where you are wrong, i don't agree so the only possibility is i don't understand. I understand very clearly, I've been researching it all day, I do not agree with it and neither does every scientist. Lol



Crimadella
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28 Jan 2019, 10:12 pm

If you want to confirm the validity of the bunk science, then please answer these questions.

If I don't tell you what I identify then how do you scientifically determine my gender?

How do you scientifically determine the gender of a monkey that can't voice iit's'personal taste' or what it identifies as?

If it comes down to pure opinion of the individual and science cannot confirm without input of the individual then it is in fact not science. Like I said, science doesn't ask your open of what gender you are, it tells you what gender you are. That is the key root of why all countries do not follow this belief, because it is a belief, not a fact.



karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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28 Jan 2019, 10:17 pm

Crimadella wrote:
If you want to confirm the validity of the bunk science, then please answer these questions.

If I don't tell you what I identify then how do you scientifically determine my gender?

How do you scientifically determine the gender of a monkey that can't voice iit's'personal taste' or what it identifies as?

If it comes down to pure opinion of the individual and science cannot confirm without input of the individual then it is in fact not science. Like I said, science doesn't ask your open of what gender you are, it tells you what gender you are. That is the key root of why all countries do not follow this belief, because it is a belief, not a fact.


Race isn't a scientific concept either, and yet many government forms still ask people what race they identify as. Why does it need to be "scientific" for you to understand that people have gender identities? This is unique to the human species, the concept of gender as something other than chromosomal sex, because humans are the only animals that we are aware of that can identify themselves as anything because we are the only self-aware animals with things like social issues and cultures and therefore socially and culturally influenced personal traits.

You're just flailing around pedantically. Accept that humans have gender identity because humans have self-awareness. Gender identity is unique to us because self-awareness and culture are unique to us. Just accept it, it's fact.



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28 Jan 2019, 10:19 pm

Other species don't have culture, or have only a limited one where such determinations don't really matter. But for some reason it's very important to human culture. However, homosexual behavior has been observed in primates, and other species change their sex naturally during their lifetime or due to social factors. I understand that some people are uncomfortable with ambiguity, and would wish science gave them hard answers, but too bad. Determining gender in an animal without asking is probably impossible. Sex refers in a limited way to certain specific characteristics, and it is at times a useful category, but gender has to do with social roles and feelings. Even sex is often not clear, as is the case with intersex individuals. There are sounds scientific reasons why there is a discrepancy between them, which have to do with how genes are expressed in any particular individual. Genes aren't even expressed the same way in every cell, it's a mosaic of differences. Hormones are involved, as well as epigenetic (environmentally determined) changes regarding which genes come into play. Some external factors can affect hormone production or processing. Chromosomes sometimes fall outside of typical XX and XY expression. Gender is in the brain, just like autism, and it's a spectrum. It's confusing because the majority of people fall into distinct categories and we think that means it's binary. It's not.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/sex-ge ... mplicated/



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28 Jan 2019, 10:32 pm

It's a possibility that in the not so distant future separating men and women in sports, locker rooms, bathrooms, scholarships, grants, clubs, the Olympics or even clothing sections in stores will be offensive and insulting.


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karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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28 Jan 2019, 10:34 pm

Magna wrote:
It's a possibility that in the not so distant future separating men and women in sports, locker rooms, bathrooms, scholarships, grants, clubs, the Olympics or even clothing sections in stores will be offensive and insulting.


It's also possible in the not so distant future that monkeys will fly out of my butt. :P



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28 Jan 2019, 10:35 pm

Magna wrote:
It's a possibility that in the not so distant future separating men and women in sports, locker rooms, bathrooms, scholarships, grants, clubs, the Olympics or even clothing sections in stores will be offensive and insulting.

Look on the bright side. No sexism.



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28 Jan 2019, 10:36 pm

Magna wrote:
It's a possibility that in the not so distant future separating men and women in sports, locker rooms, bathrooms, scholarships, grants, clubs, the Olympics or even clothing sections in stores will be offensive and insulting.


Which will be a great relief to short men and tall women buying clothes.