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Pepe
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27 Feb 2019, 9:24 pm

AstroPi wrote:

By definition, God is (the ultimate) goodness.


Defined by hoom?
First time I have heard that definition...
I was under the impression that that definition was reserved for 'Tim Tams'... :mrgreen:

AstroPi wrote:
Does it mean he must do for us only pleasant things? No, for example going to the dentist can be painful, but is good for us. But it may also be a torture, it depends on intentions. And truly good intentions can come only from love.


Respectfully disagree...
"Truly" good intentions can come from ethical integrity also...

AstroPi wrote:
It means that God is (the ultimate) love. What is the greatest act of love? Giving freedom to the one we love.


Obviously you are a theist...
From an atheist's POV, what you are saying is simply wishful thinking, possibly inspired by parental "guidance", social indoctrination or perhaps a deep emotional need...<shrug>

AstroPi wrote:
So God must give us (the ultimate) freedom - fully free will.


I doubt you would have independently come up with such an intellectual construct on your own...
It is, in all probability, a result of parental/social influence...

And the concept is fatally flawed, since in terms of 'absolute/ultimate free will', there is no such thing...
Did you choose to enter this life system?
I certainly did not...
I was unwillingly drafted, kicking and screaming, into a life system which is incomprehensibly brutal and simply foolish...
I am currently AWOL, btw... :wink:

AstroPi wrote:
But it would be impossible if we could prove that God exists, we wouldn't have a choice then, and this would render many other choices impossible, we couldn't be really free, we wouldn't learn responsibility, because then God would be held responsible for everything we do. We must be able to deny God's existence in order to explore all possibilities, to exercise our free will and learn. And by the things in which we believe we can see who we are.


Erm...Ok... 8O ... :wink:
Pax...


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I'm a thinker. Some think I'm a stinker. Pepe le Pew. ;)
Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


Pepe
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27 Feb 2019, 10:34 pm

Antrax wrote:
I personally do not believe in God, but do not believe a logical premise is needed to do so.


Well, here is one whether you like it or not... :mrgreen:
But to be more accurate, it isn't actually a logical argument about there not being one...
It is rather a logical argument as to the relevancy of a god to humanity...
Though one could argue that man made god, not the other way around...

Assumption: The observation is true...

Quote:
Scientists found that damage in a certain part of the brain is linked to an increase in religious fundamentalism. In particular, lesions in the ventromedial prefrontal cortex reduced cognitive flexibility - the ability to challenge our beliefs based on new evidence.



https://youtu.be/Ii3qRrDThFI
I haven't watched the video yet (in the middle of something)...
Hopefully it makes sense...

Perhaps removing the section of the brain altogether, which inspires god conceptualisation, might be an atheist's dream come true... :mrgreen:

I found another youtube-podcast/article about an anthropological study suggesting a certain part of the prefrontal cortex needed to evolve before it was even possible for humanity to conceptualise spirituality/god...
Having trouble finding it again...
Meh...What can you do?

But once again, if this section of the brain could be removed as a default at birth in future societies, they would probably not be having discussion such as this one... 8)


_________________
I'm a thinker. Some think I'm a stinker. Pepe le Pew. ;)
Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


Max1951
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28 Feb 2019, 1:49 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Whatever one wants to call it or not call it, 'something' pulls people back to Itself as a member of Itself at death and in most cases It's elated to have them back home.


This is very interesting to me. Why does it seem this way to you @techstepgenr8tion? What made you notice the phenomenon that you mention here? Do you see it as a sort of immaterial gravity that pulls souls together? Or do souls themselves as knitting themselves together through shared experience? And would the source of the "elation" be a product of the greater communion of two or more souls, which understood each other perfectly? Could that be the legendary heaven?



techstepgenr8tion
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28 Feb 2019, 5:28 pm

Max1951 wrote:
This is very interesting to me. Why does it seem this way to you @techstepgenr8tion? What made you notice the phenomenon that you mention here? Do you see it as a sort of immaterial gravity that pulls souls together? Or do souls themselves as knitting themselves together through shared experience? And would the source of the "elation" be a product of the greater communion of two or more souls, which understood each other perfectly? Could that be the legendary heaven?

A couple reasons I can think of:

1) An experience millions of people have had, for my measurement of language at least, doesn't fit the phrase 'plural of anecdote' well.

2) I'd had things happen, during certain week or two week portions of my life, that really can't be explained by reductive materialism's take on consciousness and you could say that - without having needed to have an NDE - I had encounters that just didn't fit the definition of hallucination well. In a way they felt more close, intimate, and familiar to me than anything I've ever experienced in my life.


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RetroGamer87
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28 Feb 2019, 6:32 pm

Image

So you're talking about someone like Q?


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