MILO is REJECTED. FREE SPEECH is being SQUASHED.

Page 2 of 2 [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 17,787
Location: Long Island, New York

16 Mar 2019, 8:14 pm

shlaifu wrote:
I live in a country that does censor speech - for historical reasons. After all, Germany had a bit of an issue with demagoguery in times of the Weimar Republic - let alone what followed after.
I personally and philosophically understand why free speech would theoretically be perfect - if the society concerned had an agreement on absolute non-violence and a certain framework ofbinalienable rights etc.

The christchurch attack shows that non-violence can no longer be presupposed (could it ever be, really?) hence, free speech must be be curtailed.
And Milo is just getting rich on what I came across as the "youtube-commenter's fallacy":
"The truth often hurts, so if it hurts, it must be the truth."

Curtailing free speech lets a few terrorists dictate policy for an entire society. Curtailing free speech often helps the terrorists achieve their goals by "proving" whatever conspiracy theory they are promoting (example "see this proves we are a threat to the Jew world order")

Free speech as with all freedoms often comes with a high price.


_________________
Silence is a rhythm too - The Slits with The Pop Group

Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity


Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,649
Location: Oz

16 Mar 2019, 11:50 pm

Murihiku wrote:
And now he's been banned from entering Australia again, on character grounds as previously, following his comments on the Christchurch terror attack.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/milo-yianno ... ch-comment


Yeah...


_________________
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Hate me for who I am...Not for who you think I am..."
You have been weighed...you have been measured...and you have been found wanking...:P
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,649
Location: Oz

17 Mar 2019, 12:16 am

Quote:
"People aren't radicalised by their own side. They get pushed to the far-right by the left, not by others on the right," Yiannopoulos wrote in the post.

"Attacks like this happen because the establishment panders to and mollycoddles extremist leftism and barbaric, alien religious cultures. Not when someone dares to point it out."


I have a problem with any side politicising a tragedy...
I have seen it already on both sides of the political divide...

Political/philosophical commentary will follow, but it is hardly the time when emotional levels are so heightened...
To do so now is simple exploitation...

Personally, I think Milo has himself to blame for being banned...
He was on shaky ground as it was...

You just couldn't resist mate... :roll:

No refunds for his tour...
I had no intention of going so I won't be squealing about that... :wink:


_________________
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Hate me for who I am...Not for who you think I am..."
You have been weighed...you have been measured...and you have been found wanking...:P
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,649
Location: Oz

17 Mar 2019, 12:24 am

MaxE wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
"The truth often hurts, so if it hurts, it must be the truth."
Quite a few people on WP like to use this argument. Some of them also post a lot of videos from Youtube.


Could you give an actual example?


_________________
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Hate me for who I am...Not for who you think I am..."
You have been weighed...you have been measured...and you have been found wanking...:P
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 29,558
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

17 Mar 2019, 3:49 am

Crimadella wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Since when did the first amendment say that freedom of speech includes the right to perform in other countries? Pretty sure freedom of speech in the constitution just applies in the United States. I mean go to North Korea and openly criticize their dictator and see what happens...

Also though I don't think being barred from performing/speaking at a college is a violation of free speech either. It takes time, resources and money to host a speaker I assume so I can imagine they might want to be able to use a bit of discretion as to what speakers they host. Not sure what Milo has to say that would really be relevent on a college campus, which subject of learning is he an expert in? 'I want to rant about extreme right wing ideology' doesn't seem like a valid reason to be hosted by a college. I would say the same if it was a speaker wanting to rant about extreme feminism how the planet doesn't need men, is college really the place for that kind of nonsense?


The point is for education, when discussing college campuses in America. Students are supposed to get equal opportunity to get challenged on ideas with opposing ideas. I could understand not letting a racist get up on stage and rant racist thoughts, that is not what Milo does and I believe he is married to, or was married to a black guy(as a note to people judging his views as racist). If all students do not want to hear him, sure, that's fine I guess, keep them in their bubble of never having to think for themselves, but if some students do desire to listen, others should not be able to block them from doing so, that is oppression on free speech. They are actually discussing this 'issue' with congress, congress may pull federal funding from colleges and universities who seem to wish to block all conservatives from being able to speak. Students are supposed to be challenged, not live in a bubble called a 'safe space'.

I do agree with the other portion though, not all countries allow free speech, thus his free speech right does not apply in other countries.


From what I understand he is a racist, and that is why colleges don't want him to speak at them, because colleges are not required to host hate-speech. I mean from what I have come to understand he's not just a 'conservative'. Either way I still think colleges should just host educated speakers not any random right winger or even left winger who just feels like getting on a stage to say something.


_________________
All we do crumbles to the ground though we refuse to see
Dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,647
Location: Stendec

17 Mar 2019, 10:40 am

Free speech is not being squashed. The authorities just think that Milo is an a**hole, and they’re showing him the door.



shlaifu
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 May 2014
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,090

17 Mar 2019, 11:02 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
I live in a country that does censor speech - for historical reasons. After all, Germany had a bit of an issue with demagoguery in times of the Weimar Republic - let alone what followed after.
I personally and philosophically understand why free speech would theoretically be perfect - if the society concerned had an agreement on absolute non-violence and a certain framework ofbinalienable rights etc.

The christchurch attack shows that non-violence can no longer be presupposed (could it ever be, really?) hence, free speech must be be curtailed.
And Milo is just getting rich on what I came across as the "youtube-commenter's fallacy":
"The truth often hurts, so if it hurts, it must be the truth."

Curtailing free speech lets a few terrorists dictate policy for an entire society. Curtailing free speech often helps the terrorists achieve their goals by "proving" whatever conspiracy theory they are promoting (example "see this proves we are a threat to the Jew world order")

Free speech as with all freedoms often comes with a high price.


hmm. What you're saying sounds intuitively right - except, there are few holocaust deniers in germany - because holocaust denial is a crime - and that prevents holocaust-denial from spreading. It has become a social norm that holocaust-denial is considered a sign of an antisemitic conspiracy theory. Which makes the holocaust-deniers very weak in this society.
They are not dictating policy - but the ideas are spreading again, thanks to the internet and the possibility to spread this idea unpunished and within closed-off spaces outside the prevailing social order of this country.

so, curtailing free speech can enshrine into law what elected representatives want to become a social norm.


_________________
I can read facial expressions. I did the test.


Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,649
Location: Oz

17 Mar 2019, 8:56 pm

Fnord wrote:
Free speech is not being squashed. The authorities just think that Milo is an a**hole, and they’re showing him the door.


I haven't studied Milo...
One of the things I have heard him say is that he is simply returning the favour (giving shite for shite) to the alt left-wing A-holes...

He is an exhibitionist...
I find that on the nose because I am not an ego-hugger...
But beyond his narcissism, he does fight the dark side of the left (why do people put up with the fascist left but not him?), defend freedom of thought, and is entertaining...


_________________
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Hate me for who I am...Not for who you think I am..."
You have been weighed...you have been measured...and you have been found wanking...:P
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,649
Location: Oz

17 Mar 2019, 9:00 pm

shlaifu wrote:
so, curtailing free speech can enshrine into law what elected representatives want to become a social norm.


It isn't a price I am prepared to pay, but then again, I am very heavily into individualism...<shrug> 8)


_________________
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Hate me for who I am...Not for who you think I am..."
You have been weighed...you have been measured...and you have been found wanking...:P
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


MaxE
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,018
Location: Mid-Atlantic US

17 Mar 2019, 9:16 pm

Pepe wrote:
MaxE wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
"The truth often hurts, so if it hurts, it must be the truth."
Quite a few people on WP like to use this argument. Some of them also post a lot of videos from Youtube.


Could you give an actual example?
They're all over the place. This thread seemed to attract quite a few videos, perhaps it can serve as an illustrative example.


_________________
I am my own target audience.


Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,649
Location: Oz

17 Mar 2019, 9:21 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
From what I understand he is a racist, and that is why colleges don't want him to speak at them, because colleges are not required to host hate-speech. I mean from what I have come to understand he's not just a 'conservative'. Either way I still think colleges should just host educated speakers not any random right winger or even left winger who just feels like getting on a stage to say something.


Supposedly he is "married" to a black person (is that the proper terminology?)...
So he isn't a white supremacist...
Their babies wouldn't be pure Aryan... :mrgreen:

Back in my day, universities embraced freedom of thought and exchange of different ideas to broaden a person's outlook...
These days the left won't allow this and shout down anyone who isn't singing from the same hymn book...
Any rational person can't defend this sort of mob rule...
It is tantamount to philosophical terrorism...
Emotionalism rulz!... :mrgreen:

It is mind-staggeringly stoopid...
But then again, these are after all people whose brains haven't been fully developed and can't see their own groupthink nonsense... 8O


_________________
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Hate me for who I am...Not for who you think I am..."
You have been weighed...you have been measured...and you have been found wanking...:P
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen: